BMW M3: Good News and Bad News (Video Added)

[Raza]

I just don't follow the logic of a stickshift in such a fast car. If you want stickshift youre obv willing to sacrifice some outright speed for engagement.

So you do understand it.

[Char]

I don't really believe this car needs a manual. A 'track focused' car should be directed at people who want the ultimate driving experience, and I think a manual transmission disrupts that. 

[Onslaught]

Sporty, the M3 is better with a manual IMO. I can totally relate to the pleasure in shifting your own gears. Who cares about the extra tenths of a second per lap? Driver ability at your typical track day makes 10,000% more difference than the gearbox. And even then, it is not a race.

Must we make every other thread into a manual vs. auto debate? 

This. Track day times don't mean anything. You're just out there having fun in the car and your times don't mean anything. It's not a real race. If it was a real race you'd want a DSG. If it's just for fun then I'd take a car with 3 pedals.

[280Z Turbo]

I don't really believe this car needs a manual. A 'track focused' car should be directed at people who want the ultimate driving experience, and I think a manual transmission disrupts that. 

Who the fuck is this? And what is he talking about?

[280Z Turbo]

Logically, the best way to reach the start/finish line at any track is never to leave the start/finish line. Why drive around in a circle? It's a waste of gas when you're already where you want to end up.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Logically, cars should not exist. And who the fuck is this Chard?

[S204STi]

So you do understand it.

LOL

[LonghornTX]

Logically, cars should not exist. And who the fuck is this Chard?

I guess he is new. Don't see that very often...

[cawimmer430]

Who the fuck is this? And what is he talking about?

Come on. Be nice to our newest member.

Welcome! 

[Cookie Monster]

I don't really believe this car needs a manual. A 'track focused' car should be directed at people who want the ultimate driving experience, and I think a manual transmission disrupts that. 

wat

[Raza]

I don't really believe this car needs a manual. A 'track focused' car should be directed at people who want the ultimate driving experience, and I think a manual transmission disrupts that. 

That's all very nice, but the M3 is not a track focused car.  It's a road car.  They have used higher track focused trims like the CSL in the past.  Absolutely no reason that the base M3 would become what the CSL used to be. 


Welcome to the forums. 

[MrH]

Please, we both know that just because I'm not an engineering nerd doesn't mean that I can't take a car to its limits.  And every time I say something about driving hard on the street, I have ten people shouting me down, calling it reckless, telling me that I have no talent, that I'm at best an average driver, and that driving shouldn't be fun.  So excuse me if I feel like I'm one of a few that enjoy driving.   And I didn't say I was the only one, I said I was one of five.  I mentally included you in that five, by the way.  Between that and Sporty thinking that I said I'd go back in time and murder the inventor of the DSG in his sleep so they never come into existence, reading comprehension on this board seems to suck really hard.

And okay, let's say you save a second a lap. Or ten seconds a lap.  Like I said in another post:

"I'd rather be half a second, or a second, or ten seconds slower and have more fun doing it."

And my hyperbolic shift time savings was always just that; shift time.  I didn't once allege that you'll only save a fraction of a second around a lap, nor did I ever once say that a DSG or SMG transmission is a bad choice for a track car.  Actually, I started this line of discussion by agreeing that a DSG is a great transmission for a track. 

I'm still not going to become a professional race car driver, so lap times are meaningless.  No one is out there and going to say "Hey, I know most race car drivers start from a very young age through carting, but that guy in his late twenties in the Volkswagen is the next Lewis Hamilton, I should hire him on my F1 team!" 

So what I'm saying is that yes, ACTs are faster at the track, but I don't care because automatics aren't as fun to drive, all other variables held constant.  I don't know why that's so hard for you and Sporty to grasp.

  I know.  I just knew bringing up the fact you asked for an explanation on final drive ratios would set you loose.  Had to do it

I guess the more track experience get, the more concerned I am about driving properly.  It's tough to do that while trying to heel toe every corner.  I guess I see the value in it in that sense.  The faster a car is, the more difficult it is to drive properly, and the more attention it needs to hitting your lines and brake points.

Whatever floats your boat.  I guess if I was never going to take it to the track, I would get a manual too.

[Raza]

  I know.  I just knew bringing up the fact you asked for an explanation on final drive ratios would set you loose.  Had to do it

I guess the more track experience get, the more concerned I am about driving properly.  It's tough to do that while trying to heel toe every corner.  I guess I see the value in it in that sense.  The faster a car is, the more difficult it is to drive properly, and the more attention it needs to hitting your lines and brake points.

Whatever floats your boat.  I guess if I was never going to take it to the track, I would get a manual too.

I figured, but I had to address it.  You've gotten to know me well over these past however many years. 

Like I said though, even for a car I'm taking to the track, I'm going stick if it's going on the road with me.  Now, if I'm going to do something competitive, then I'd take the DSG unless it came with an exorbitant weight penalty (a few years ago, the BTCC allowed in DSGs, but for something like a 20 kilo weight penalty added to the car). 

But yes, when I go to track in October, it will be in a car with a single clutch automatic; but only because they don't offer any cars with a manual for the offer I took.  The only car with a stick available for rent at the track is an Elise, but they were disqualified from the offer. 

[MrH]

What are you doing in october?

[Eye of the Tiger]

What are you doing in october?

Eating a dick? I don't believe Raza on a track.

[Raza]

What are you doing in october?

Three road course laps in a 430 Scuderia.   

[MrH]

Three road course laps in a 430 Scuderia.   

How many years after you buy your new car is this going to happen

Seriously, good luck.  I about shit myself driving the ring in even a slow ass Suzuki Swift.  3 laps isn't even enough to get much heat in the tires.

[hotrodalex]

3 laps isn't even enough to get much heat in the tires.

That just makes it more fun.

[Raza]

How many years after you buy your new car is this going to happen

Seriously, good luck.  I about shit myself driving the ring in even a slow ass Suzuki Swift.  3 laps isn't even enough to get much heat in the tires.

I know.  It's going to be insane.

But it's fully insured by the track, so I'm going to crash it on my third lap.  How many people will be able to say they crashed a Ferrari on a track?

[SVT666]

Awesome.  This fall I'm taking a high speed driving course.  Can't wait.

[Char]

That's all very nice, but the M3 is not a track focused car.  It's a road car.  They have used higher track focused trims like the CSL in the past.  Absolutely no reason that the base M3 would become what the CSL used to be. 


Welcome to the forums. 

Well, by your own arguement it's a street car, one that will spend more of it's time in a Starbucks parking lot then at Watkins Glenn or Sebring. No reason it needs a manual transmission.

[SVT666]

Oh man.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Everyone should drive automatic four cylinder Camries.

[sportyaccordy]

This is entertainment

[Cookie Monster]

Well, by your own arguement it's a street car, one that will spend more of it's time in a Starbucks parking lot then at Watkins Glenn or Sebring. No reason it needs a manual transmission.

It doesn't need a DCT to sit around in a Starbucks parking lot either. That argument doesn't make any sense.

[2o6]

Everyone should drive automatic four cylinder Camries.

Those Camries are fast, though.

[Char]

It doesn't need a DCT to sit around in a Starbucks parking lot either. That argument doesn't make any sense.

Except that it functions as a conventional automatic, essentially filling two roles.

[cawimmer430]

Everyone should drive automatic four cylinder Camries.

[850CSi]

Well, by your own arguement it's a street car, one that will spend more of it's time in a Starbucks parking lot then at Watkins Glenn or Sebring. No reason it needs a manual transmission.

TROLOLOLOLOL

[Raza]

Well, by your own arguement it's a street car, one that will spend more of it's time in a Starbucks parking lot then at Watkins Glenn or Sebring. No reason it needs a manual transmission.

My argument has always been that I prefer manual transmissions, street car or "race car".  Frankly, if you want to talk about needs, all it needs is a 3 speed automatic to get from place to place.