Defense for LEO tailgating?

[bing_oh]

I'm guessing the cop became suspicious of r0tor for some reason, and decided to have a closer look.  As I said earlier, this has happened to me.  I do think the tailgating thing is obnoxious, though.  If a cop is suspicious and wants to follow, I think that's perfectly legitimate, but do it at a safe distance.  To be cynical, I think the tailgating for a noticeable distance is a tactic meant to provoke the driver into doing something that will give the cop a pretext to pull him over.  I think r0tor played it right, and didn't give the cop a pretext to check him out further.

There's nothing "cynical" about it...there are various tactics used to "encourage" a violation, usually as a pretext for a stop and contact. Drunks in particular respond to certain driving habits of the vehicles around them. Also, it's not unusual for me to get a bit closer to a vehicle to look for various things like the license plate expiration sticker.

Realize than an officer needs reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle. I can't stop a vehicle just because I think it's "suspicious," for example...I still need that violation. Driving behind someone for a period of time, maybe a little closer than usual, will frequently make them nervous enough to commit at least a small violation if I think they're up to no good and want a closer look.

[bing_oh]

Citizen's arrest!

Felony traffic violation, huh?

[dazzleman]

There's nothing "cynical" about it...there are various tactics used to "encourage" a violation, usually as a pretext for a stop and contact. Drunks in particular respond to certain driving habits of the vehicles around them. Also, it's not unusual for me to get a bit closer to a vehicle to look for various things like the license plate expiration sticker.

Realize than an officer needs reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle. I can't stop a vehicle just because I think it's "suspicious," for example...I still need that violation. Driving behind someone for a period of time, maybe a little closer than usual, will frequently make them nervous enough to commit at least a small violation if I think they're up to no good and want a closer look.

The time it happened to me, I think the officer thought I was drunk.  He followed me very closely for a long distance.  He didn't pull me over, so I must have passed his test.

[bing_oh]

Speculate away...

He was on his way to a call that needed a rapid, but not emergency, response.
He was on his way to lunch and his girlfriend was gonna give him a zipper fuck.
He needed to take a major dump and you wouldn't get out of his frickin' way.
He was trying to make you paranoid enough to commit a violation because he thought you were a dirtbag.
His department has budget cuts and he was drafting to improve fuel economy.
He was bored and just felt like screwing with you.

[bing_oh]

The time it happened to me, I think the officer thought I was drunk.  He followed me very closely for a long distance.  He didn't pull me over, so I must have passed his test.

I've worked midnight for years, so I do alot of drunk-hunting. Any seasoned midnight cop knows the tricks while fishing for a drunk. Sometimes the tricks get a violation, sometimes the driver "passes the test."

[dazzleman]

I've worked midnight for years, so I do alot of drunk-hunting. Any seasoned midnight cop knows the tricks while fishing for a drunk. Sometimes the tricks get a violation, sometimes the driver "passes the test."

I wasn't drunk, so I guess it worked.

When I did my ride-along with my local police, I saw how irritated the officers get with people who actually follow the speed limit.  Of course, the only reason they're following it most likely is that they have a cop behind them.  But in this case, the cop wanted them to go faster, and didn't intend to pull them over for it.  I've gotten pretty casual with my local cops; I drive around 10 mph or so above the speed limit and don't slow down if I see one.  So far, it's working.  If they pull me over, so be it.  At this stage of the game, I don't have much to fear from them.

[GoCougs]

Pretty decent overall life philosophy there, too.

Trust me when I say it took me a long time to get there lol...

[AutobahnSHO]

I set cruise at 5 over the limit, which is likely a mph or two short at 50-70mph. Sometimes I'll do up to 10over but usually not more than that for extended amounts of time. Like to pass a slow turd or whatever then come back down to cruise speed.

[Soup DeVille]

I've worked midnight for years, so I do alot of drunk-hunting. Any seasoned midnight cop knows the tricks while fishing for a drunk. Sometimes the tricks get a violation, sometimes the driver "passes the test."

And I've worked nights for years and have been the subject of these little fishing expeditions more than once.

[r0tor]

Driving behind someone for a period of time, maybe a little closer than usual, will frequently make them nervous enough to commit at least a small violation if I think they're up to no good and want a closer look.

Smells exactly like entrapment to me...

[TurboDan]

Yes, I agree about the tailgating.  It's really not safe, and it gives the impression that the cop is on a power trip.  Plus, I don't know what additional information he could gather by doing it; it seems a more surreptitious surveillance would be more effective if he's legitimately suspicious.

I've heard of the NJSP using this tactic to entrap speeders on the Palisades Parkway.  I don't think it's official policy, but there were some rogue cops who were doing it.  A guy I know (not 100% credible, IMO) said he was on the Palisades and a cop came racing up behind him, tailgated really close, and then when he sped up to move out of the way, the cop pulled him over and gave him 4 tickets for speeding, unsafe lane change, reckless and something else.

Funny you mention that highway, Dave. Actually, NJSP doesn't patrol the Palisades. That highway has its own dedicated police department: The Palisades Interstate Parkway Police. The department is widely known as a dumping ground for political patronage jobs and they've had a great many problems with the "quality" of the officers. They've been talking for years of disbanding it, though my hunch is that so many politicians' relatives and friends work there it's never going to happen.

I'm not surprised to hear there are less-than-reputable tactics being used, though I have never actually driven on that highway personally. It's on the opposite end of the state as me and I don't anyone who lives near it.

[bing_oh]

Smells alot like entrapment to me...

Too bad you, like so many people, don't understand entrapment. Entrapment is when a representative of the government induces a person to commit a crime he or she otherwise would not commit, expressing the desire not to commit that crime but being persuaded to do so by the government representative. If I were to challenge a person to a drag race, telling them that I wouldn't do anything about it when they express no desire to do so, and then arrest them for reckless driving, that would be entrapment.

People love to call things "entrapment" when the police use subterfuge or various "unfair" tactics to catch people in the act, but it's simply not.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I smell entrapment. Or bacon. Not sure.

[bing_oh]

I smell entrapment. Or bacon. Not sure.

[TurboDan]

And I've worked nights for years and have been the subject of these little fishing expeditions more than once.

Same here. I get back home late a lot of nights since I have to attend government public meetings, which tend to be at night. On one particular long road in a town adjacent to me that I have to drive through (2 lanes in each directions), the "test" consists of an officer driving in the lane NEXT to you, pretty much right on your tail. He's not tailgating you, but he's basically in your blind spot waiting for you to "mess up."

It's an obvious DWI detection tactic. That town is very aggressive with its drunk driving enforcement.

[Soup DeVille]

Too bad you, like so many people, don't understand entrapment. Entrapment is when a representative of the government induces a person to commit a crime he or she otherwise would not commit, expressing the desire not to commit that crime but being persuaded to do so by the government representative. If I were to challenge a person to a drag race, telling them that I wouldn't do anything about it when they express no desire to do so, and then arrest them for reckless driving, that would be entrapment.

People love to call things "entrapment" when the police use subterfuge or various "unfair" tactics to catch people in the act, but it's simply not.

no, its subterfuge and unfair tactics, just not entrapment under the eyes of the law.

[Cookie Monster]

Too bad you, like so many people, don't understand entrapment. Entrapment is when a representative of the government induces a person to commit a crime he or she otherwise would not commit, expressing the desire not to commit that crime but being persuaded to do so by the government representative. If I were to challenge a person to a drag race, telling them that I wouldn't do anything about it when they express no desire to do so, and then arrest them for reckless driving, that would be entrapment.

People love to call things "entrapment" when the police use subterfuge or various "unfair" tactics to catch people in the act, but it's simply not.

So if someone is driving down the highway at around the speed limit, you riding their bumper to get them to do something to give you reason to pull them over isn't entrapment? From what you posted, that sounds exactly like entrapment...

[Soup DeVille]

So if someone is driving down the highway at around the speed limit, you riding their bumper to get them to do something to give you reason to pull them over isn't entrapment? From what you posted, that sounds exactly like entrapment...

He's not forcing them to go faster.

I think its an underhanded trick myself, but the law says its fair game.

[TurboDan]

He's not forcing them to go faster.

I think its an underhanded trick myself, but the law says its fair game.

Yeah, in the eyes of the law, someone tailgating you doesn't necessarily "force" you to do anything differently, so it's not entrapment.

Still, I think it's a rather unprofessional way of "doing business," not to mention dangerous. If a deer jumps out in front of the guy being "purposely tailgated," that won't be a good situation when he slams on his brakes and the LEO's vehicle smashes into him.

[dazzleman]

Funny you mention that highway, Dave. Actually, NJSP doesn't patrol the Palisades. That highway has its own dedicated police department: The Palisades Interstate Parkway Police. The department is widely known as a dumping ground for political patronage jobs and they've had a great many problems with the "quality" of the officers. They've been talking for years of disbanding it, though my hunch is that so many politicians' relatives and friends work there it's never going to happen.

I'm not surprised to hear there are less-than-reputable tactics being used, though I have never actually driven on that highway personally. It's on the opposite end of the state as me and I don't anyone who lives near it.

Interesting.  Sounds like a typical corrupt New Jersey situation.  What a waste to have a department dedicated to a single, short highway.  No wonder taxes are so high.

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, in the eyes of the law, someone tailgating you doesn't necessarily "force" you to do anything differently, so it's not entrapment.

Still, I think it's a rather unprofessional way of "doing business," not to mention dangerous. If a deer jumps out in front of the guy being "purposely tailgated," that won't be a good situation when he slams on his brakes and the LEO's vehicle smashes into him.

I find it to be especially dangerous at night when I'm being blinded by the LEO's lights.

I had that happen to me on a windy road at night. It was very irritating and if I hadn't known the road like the back of my hand I would've been terrified as well.

[TurboDan]

I find it to be especially dangerous at night when I'm being blinded by the LEO's lights.

I had that happen to me on a windy road at night. It was very irritating and if I hadn't known the road like the back of my hand I would've been terrified as well.

I remember a situation that happened when I was in high school to one of my buddies.

It's a red light. Buddy's on one side, police car on the other. My buddy is turning left with a left turn signal on. Light turns green, cop doesn't move. Buddy's thinking: "well, do I just go, he's not doing anything?"

They wait in a standoff. Cop eventually crosses the intersection just as it's turning red, but he was staring at my friend the whole time. Doubtlessly, if my friend had turned left, he would've gotten lit up for the "illegal" left turn in front of opposing traffic.

I'm a massive, massive, pro-law-enforcement guy, but I hate the BS that goes on out there sometimes, mostly because it makes all the good hard-working honest cops look like shit.

[r0tor]

Maybe we should start tailgaiting cops just to make sure they are sober

[dazzleman]

Maybe we should start tailgaiting cops just to make sure they are sober

Great idea.  I nominate you to go first.  Let us know how it turns out.

[dazzleman]

I remember a situation that happened when I was in high school to one of my buddies.

It's a red light. Buddy's on one side, police car on the other. My buddy is turning left with a left turn signal on. Light turns green, cop doesn't move. Buddy's thinking: "well, do I just go, he's not doing anything?"

They wait in a standoff. Cop eventually crosses the intersection just as it's turning red, but he was staring at my friend the whole time. Doubtlessly, if my friend had turned left, he would've gotten lit up for the "illegal" left turn in front of opposing traffic.

I'm a massive, massive, pro-law-enforcement guy, but I hate the BS that goes on out there sometimes, mostly because it makes all the good hard-working honest cops look like shit.

I've been lucky to only have encountered nice cops, for the most part.  Even the cops who have given me tickets were nice about it.

But I have heard some stories like this.  I think younger people, especially males, are suseptible to this type of dickery from cops.  That's probably also true for people who appear to be in the "wrong" neighborhood.  But once you get past a certain age, and drive a respectable looking car, these issues tend to go away.

[Rupert]

That's when you're supposed to weave back and forth within your lane to show him you are keeping your tires warm.

If you're not breaking any other law and have an hour to kill, hell yeah.

[rohan]

He was on his way to a call that needed a rapid, but not emergency, response.
He was on his way to lunch and his girlfriend was gonna give him a zipper fuck.
He needed to take a major dump and you wouldn't get out of his frickin' way.
He was trying to make you paranoid enough to commit a violation because he thought you were a dirtbag.
His department has budget cuts and he was drafting to improve fuel economy.
He was bored and just felt like screwing with you.

This- all of it.  My department- probably almost 100% of the others in the US do too- has policies regarding what level of response is required and even allowed.  Not every situation is covered in the policy so they cover "groupings" of call types.  Only a handfull of calls types allow our people to drive with their lights or siren on.  State law dictates what we don't-

Our insurance carrier governs the entire shebang by telling what they will and won't cover.  On top of that if deputies violate the policies they're subject to disciplinary actions.  So just saying "if he's in a hurry he should use his lights and siren" is probably not a reality.  The funny thing is rotor - or someone else here like raza- would probably be here bitching if the guy had used his lights to get around him and then turned them off.  I hear people bitch about it a couple times a week in our office.  Sometimes it's just faster to go non-emergency because the lights and siren make people pucker and do incredibly stupid things.

[rohan]

I smell entrapment. Or bacon. Not sure.

Probably smelling yourself there fatty.  

[rohan]

Maybe we should start tailgaiting cops just to make sure they are sober

Go ahead. 

I



dare




you.

[r0tor]

This- all of it.  My department- probably almost 100% of the others in the US do too- has policies regarding what level of response is required and even allowed.  Not every situation is covered in the policy so they cover "groupings" of call types.  Only a handfull of calls types allow our people to drive with their lights or siren on.  State law dictates what we don't-

Our insurance carrier governs the entire shebang by telling what they will and won't cover.  On top of that if deputies violate the policies they're subject to disciplinary actions.  So just saying "if he's in a hurry he should use his lights and siren" is probably not a reality.  The funny thing is rotor - or someone else here like raza- would probably be here bitching if the guy had used his lights to get around him and then turned them off.  I hear people bitch about it a couple times a week in our office.  Sometimes it's just faster to go non-emergency because the lights and siren make people pucker and do incredibly stupid things.

Yet, if a civilian breaks the speed limit because he needs to be a certain place for work or has a turtle head popping out, an officer will ram a speeding ticket up his ass...