Snow tires lol...

[VTEC_Inside]

Saw a lady this morning standing outside her Matrix on the side of the road on her phone looking at the car. I noticed the chunky snow tires at about the same time I noticed that she had cleared the curb with all 4 of them.

Granted this is a fairly tight corner on a downhill, but I made it on Goodyear all-seasons that have pretty shitty wet weather grip lately.

What's going to happen when it actually freezes?

I prompt the question because the topic of making snows a requirement has come up from time to time here (law in Quebec), and it always pisses me off. I've never had snows and have driven through some pretty miserable shit and always made it home in one piece.

I guess I'm not really surprised that they wouldn't focus on the root cause, poor drivers, but I needed to rant.

[SVT666]

Winter tires are law in BC too and I like the law.   Too many dumbasses try to navigate our high mountain passes on all-seasons and end up causing huge accidents.   Our highway accident rates have dropped dramatically since the law came into effect.  Your tires are the only thing connecting you to the road,  and I have no idea why people think tires don't matter.

[GoCougs]

Dedicated snow tires are borderline dangerous on wet pavement so no surprise there.

The consequences for poor driving are so lax that laws like this are inevitable.

Some of it is poor driving sure but dedicated snows offer a HUGE advantage in snow and ice. A moderate portion of "good driving" is recognizing the need for proper equipment.

[SVT666]

I can see not having winter tires in areas like Vancouver or Seattle or Portland, but in areas that actually get snow and/or sub-freezing temperatures all winter and not just every couple years, snow tires should be mandatory.

[giant_mtb]

A lot of times, it's not about the tires...it's the driver's ability.

[VTEC_Inside]

Winter tires are law in BC too and I like the law.   Too many dumbasses try to navigate our high mountain passes on all-seasons and end up causing huge accidents.   Our highway accident rates have dropped dramatically since the law came into effect.  Your tires are the only thing connecting you to the road,  and I have no idea why people think tires don't matter.

I'm not suggesting that tires don't matter, rather that a dumbass is a dumbass no matter what tires are on his/her car. I have a buddy that swears by the things, maybe I would too if we actually had winters here, but its difficult to argue the fact that I've never had any trouble driving on all-seasons, I've just gone slower.

[SVT666]

A lot of times, it's not about the tires...it's the driver's ability.

You live in Ontario. You get lots of snow and cold weather.  Winter tires would benefit you a great deal.  I used to think the same way until I actually was forced into buying them because my car had summer tires.  That first winter with proper snow tires was all the convincing I needed.

[SVT666]

A lot of times, it's not about the tires...it's the driver's ability.

Sure,  but why would you purposefully put yourself at a huge disadvantage by not having winter tires?

[Habitual Speeder]

You live in Ontario. You get lots of snow and cold weather.  Winter tires would benefit you a great deal.  I used to think the same way until I actually was forced into buying them because my car had summer tires.  That first winter with proper snow tires was all the convincing I needed.

I live in Ontario, as well (Ottawa, but grew up in Toronto). 

I never had snow tires until last year. And, the only reason I have them is that a pal had an extra set and I took them off his hands.  With decent all-season tires, you can cope quite well.

When the current set wear out, I doubt I'll replace them.

[SVT666]

Sorry, I just think that's fucking stupid.  Winter tires provide massive improvements in braking and traction, not just on snow or ice, but also on dry pavement that is below freezing.  One thing you guys get in Ontario is really cold temperatures and winter tires dramatically improve performance.  All-Seasons get worse the colder it gets regardless of ice or snow.

[Habitual Speeder]

Sorry, I just think that's fucking stupid.  Winter tires provide massive improvements in braking and traction, not just on snow or ice, but also on dry pavement that is below freezing.  One thing you guys get in Ontario is really cold temperatures and winter tires dramatically improve performance.  All-Seasons get worse the colder it gets regardless of ice or snow.

Well, thank fuck you're not an MPP in Ontario. 

I'm not suggesting specialized equipment doesn't work better for the circumstance, for which, it was designed, but I'm not prepared to be legislatively told to purchase a product I might have a proper use 11 days a year (keep in mind the roads are salted tae fuck 'round here and nothing short of metal studs works on ice).

[280Z Turbo]

Dedicated snow tires are borderline dangerous on wet pavement so no surprise there.

The consequences for poor driving are so lax that laws like this are inevitable.

Some of it is poor driving sure but dedicated snows offer a HUGE advantage in snow and ice. A moderate portion of "good driving" is recognizing the need for proper equipment.

I have Continental ExtremeWinterContacts and they are fine for dry and wet driving. Sure, I wouldn't run them at Road America on an 80 degree day, but they are a huge advantage in the winter months. The softer compound compensates for below freezing temps.

[SVT666]

Well, thank fuck you're not an MPP in Ontario. 

I'm not suggesting specialized equipment doesn't work better for the circumstance, for which, it was designed, but I'm not prepared to be legislatively told to purchase a product I might have a proper use 11 days a year (keep in mind the roads are salted tae fuck 'round here and nothing short of metal studs works on ice).

11 days a year?  Whatever man.  That's BS and you know it.  Ottawa has no less than 3 months where the average daily high is well below freezing.  The temperature alone affects the performance of your tires, and all-seasons start suffering quite badly once the temperature gets below freezing...salt or not.  Ottawa also receives an average of 92" of snow over 60-70 days every year.  So 11 days, my ass.

It's people with your thought process that make me glad our government legislated winter tires for our highways.  Our winter accident rates have dropped dramatically since the legislation came into effect.

[Habitual Speeder]

11 days a year?  Whatever man.  That's BS and you know it.  Ottawa has no less than 3 months where the average daily high is well below freezing.  The temperature alone affects the performance of your tires, and all-seasons start suffering quite badly once the temperature gets below freezing...salt or not.  Ottawa also receives an average of 92" of snow over 60-70 days every year.  So 11 days, my ass.

It's people with your thought process that make me glad our government legislated winter tires for our highways.  Our winter accident rates have dropped dramatically since the legislation came into effect.

It's funny: I just typed out a lengthy response and I realized I can't be bothered, so, I erased it.

You buy the accessories you let your local government force on you, and I'll fight to ensure this province isn't as daft. Sadly, Ontario might not listen to me...

[SVT666]

It's funny: I just typed out a lengthy response and I realized I can't be bothered, so, I erased it.

You buy the accessories you let your local government force on you, and I'll fight to ensure this province isn't as daft. Sadly, Ontario might not listen to me...

I was buying winter tires a long time before I was ever forced to because it's the smart thing to do.  Ontario has some of the dumbest traffic and highway legislation in the country, so if they mandate winter tires, it will be one of the first smart things they have ever done.

[280Z Turbo]

I don't think it could ever happen in Michigan. Someone who works at a factory for $8.75 an hour barely gives a shit about life.

They sure as hell don't care about their rusted piece of shit '87 Regal. They don't have money for snow tires. They don't even have money for regular tires.

[SVT666]

I don't think it could ever happen in Michigan. Someone who works at a factory for $8.75 an hour barely gives a shit about life.

They sure as hell don't care about their rusted piece of shit '87 Regal. They don't have money for snow tires. They don't even have money for regular tires.

In Quebec, I believe the law is that winter tires are mandatory everywhere, but here in BC the law is that winter tires are mandatory on highways.  Almost all of our highways go through or over mountain ranges in BC so you're an idiot to travel those roads without winter tires anyway.

[Galaxy]

Winter Tires are generally better at tempretures below 7 deg Celsius. Not all winter tires are optimized for deep snow. Many work well on dry, wet, or roads with only think layers of snow.

Take the Michelin Alpin PA2 for example.

[giant_mtb]

You live in Ontario. You get lots of snow and cold weather.  Winter tires would benefit you a great deal.  I used to think the same way until I actually was forced into buying them because my car had summer tires.  That first winter with proper snow tires was all the convincing I needed.

What?? I live in Michigan.

I don't have winter tires because I can't afford them. My parents have winter tires and they're great.

My point is that people try too often to drive beyond the limits of their tires. It's often user error, not the tire. The tire performed as well as it possibly could but the driver was too inexperienced to realize that limit.

I wish I could have winter tires.

[SVT666]

What?? I live in Michigan.

I don't have winter tires because I can't afford them. My parents have winter tires and they're great.

My point is that people try too often to drive beyond the limits of their tires. It's often user error, not the tire. The tire performed as well as it possibly could but the driver was too inexperienced to realize that limit.

I wish I could have winter tires.

Sorry dude.  I quoted the wrong post. 

[FoMoJo]

Sorry, I just think that's fucking stupid.  Winter tires provide massive improvements in braking and traction, not just on snow or ice, but also on dry pavement that is below freezing.  One thing you guys get in Ontario is really cold temperatures and winter tires dramatically improve performance.  All-Seasons get worse the colder it gets regardless of ice or snow.

That's, pretty much, true.  Especially for an inexperienced or marginal driver.  I make sure that the snows are on my wife's car before the first snowfall.  That's, usually, the most dangerous one.

[S204STi]

A lot of times, it's not about the tires...it's the driver's ability.

100% of the time you can outrun your talent level, and grip, if you drive like a coked-out squirrel.

Snows a great, but they don't mean you can continue to text and be a retard when it's slick out.

[S204STi]

Dedicated snow tires are borderline dangerous on wet pavement so no surprise there.

The consequences for poor driving are so lax that laws like this are inevitable.

Some of it is poor driving sure but dedicated snows offer a HUGE advantage in snow and ice. A moderate portion of "good driving" is recognizing the need for proper equipment.

When the ambient temps drop below a certain temp, all-seasons and summer tires are rock-hard.  Winter tires remain pliable. 

[280Z Turbo]

It's foolish to say that snow tires on all vehicles in the snow would not prevent accidents.

[S204STi]

No, I'd say it's completely accurate.  you couldn't state that it prevents *all* accidents, but it does prevent some.  I watched 2 out of an eventual total of 7 cars slide off the road on the same 100yd stretch, and I passed through at the speed limit without issues.  Tires were the only discernable difference that I could see between those two cars and my own.

[Rupert]

if you drive like a coked-out squirrel.

Do you know about Achewood?

[850CSi]

I can see not having winter tires in areas like Vancouver or Seattle or Portland, but in areas that actually get snow and/or sub-freezing temperatures all winter and not just every couple years, snow tires should be mandatory.

It's foolish to say that no driving in the snow would not prevent accidents.

[mzziaz]

Driving in actual winter conditions without dedicated winter tires is fucking stupid. I use studded snow tires on all three of my cars.

[S204STi]

Do you know about Achewood?

Will have to google that.

[850CSi]

Driving in actual winter conditions without dedicated winter tires is fucking stupid.