Viper GTS... just a crappier version of the ZR1.

[565]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/

Despite being on its way out, the ZR1 hands one last blow to the new contender, it's still more civilized, better value, and more capable.  A 2.1 second margin around Laguna seca is huge.  May the C7 take the vette to even greater heights.

[GoCougs]

Not one to be a huge Corvette cheerleader, but yeah, the Corvette's generally always been the better car.

I've never been a fan of the Viper - it's just tried too hard to be "crude." There is no reason for the Viper's comfort and driveability deficiencies in a car today.

[Lebowski]

I would never buy a viper. The daily driveability shortcomings vs a corvette are not worth it and never have been.

[SVT666]

The ACR will crush the ZR1, but yeah,  the Viper is not a good daily car.

[LonghornTX]

I thought that was a pretty weak article, and after having watched Pobst drive in some of their other comparisons, I don't think he was capable of extracting that much from the Viper. I will wait to see comparisons from more established performance mags like R&T and C&D before I judge whether the ZR1, which BTW is much more expensive than a base Viper w/ track pack, is actually the superior performance car. MT just seems to thrive on putting out flame bait articles, not decent auto journalism.

Frankly, the Viper is substantially better looking inside and out and is much more exclusive to own. For me, that matters, because Corvettes are pretty common, while Vipers are a bit more special. However, I would imagine the C7 will jump substantially forward in all things vs. the C6, though the styling looks pretty lame to me right now (Ferrari front end with no circular taillights). I also know for a fact, since I met people working on the Viper, that there is substantially more performance available from the car.

[Onslaught]

Never been a fan of the Vipers. It's just too American for me. Big, loud, cheap looking and looks like a rednecks wet dream.
My understanding is it's a good motor looking for a car to be put in.

[LonghornTX]

Never been a fan of the Vipers. It's just too American for me. Big, loud, cheap looking and looks like a rednecks wet dream.
My understanding is it's a good motor looking for a car to be put in.

The new one changes much of that, especially on the inside. The fitment and build quality is on a whole different level compared to the last generation. And I will remind you that the last gen ACR is still one of the fastest track day specials in the world, bar none.

[GoCougs]

The ACR will crush the ZR1, but yeah,  the Viper is not a good daily car.

Not only is this tested Viper laughably expensive ($125k base, $142k as tested) which likely precludes an even more expensive (ACR) version, the ZR1 is a 4 model years old and is based on a car 9 years old. The ZR1 of the C7 variety will be that much more monster.

[LonghornTX]

Not only is this tested Viper laughably expensive ($125k base, $142k as tested) which likely precludes an even more expensive (ACR) version, the ZR1 is a 4 model years old and is based on a car 9 years old. The ZR1 of the C7 variety will be that much more monster.

It is also possibly one of the most highly developed sports cars in the world, wearing probably the stickiest tires you can buy. There will be an ACR, bet on it.

[280Z Turbo]

It is also possibly one of the most highly developed sports cars in the world

lolwut?

[GoCougs]

No car with leaf springs is "highly developed." The race variants of the C6 have different suspension and chassis. GM's technical prowess is in the magnetic particle shocks and brakes.

The same-weight-as-the-ZR1 Viper not only has 50/50 weight distribution its Pirellis are both wider and have a lol treadwear of 60.

[giant_mtb]

If someone was offering me a Viper and a Corvette for no cost and I could choose just one of the two...it'd be the Viper.  No questions asked.  Corvettes are very accessible compared to Vipers...Vipers still hold a mystique and badassness that the 'Vette cannot compete with.

[SVT666]

I thought that was a pretty weak article, and after having watched Pobst drive in some of their other comparisons, I don't think he was capable of extracting that much from the Viper. I will wait to see comparisons from more established performance mags like R&T and C&D before I judge whether the ZR1, which BTW is much more expensive than a base Viper w/ track pack, is actually the superior performance car. MT just seems to thrive on putting out flame bait articles, not decent auto journalism.

Frankly, the Viper is substantially better looking inside and out and is much more exclusive to own. For me, that matters, because Corvettes are pretty common, while Vipers are a bit more special. However, I would imagine the C7 will jump substantially forward in all things vs. the C6, though the styling looks pretty lame to me right now (Ferrari front end with no circular taillights). I also know for a fact, since I met people working on the Viper, that there is substantially more performance available from the car.

Pobst is an accomplished pro race car driver.  I trust his abilities.  The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.

[Eye of the Tiger]

No car with leaf springs is "highly developed." The race variants of the C6 have different suspension and chassis. GM's technical prowess is in the magnetic particle shocks and brakes.

The same-weight-as-the-ZR1 Viper not only has 50/50 weight distribution its Pirellis are both wider and have a lol treadwear of 60.

You don't seem to understand that the leaf springs in Corvettes have several advantages over conventional coils, such as reduced unsprung weight, decreased fatigue rate, and compact packaging. It turns out to be an excellent setup for a high performance street car. The reason the race variants use coilovers is for ease of servicing and parts availability, as they may use different a coil spring and/or damper for each race.

[LonghornTX]

Pobst is an accomplished pro race car driver.  I trust his abilities.  The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.

He is a race driver, yes, but he doesnt seem to be the type that can handle cars like that very well, at least after having watched the other videos he has done for MT

[LonghornTX]

No car with leaf springs is "highly developed." The race variants of the C6 have different suspension and chassis. GM's technical prowess is in the magnetic particle shocks and brakes.

The same-weight-as-the-ZR1 Viper not only has 50/50 weight distribution its Pirellis are both wider and have a lol treadwear of 60.

A car with a team of people the size of Corvette's is most certainly highly developed. As a platform, that car gets refined almost every year. Few other cars in its class (save the 911) can claim to have the amount of engineering resources behind it. Team Viper is tiny by comparison. BTW, their brakes are made by Brembo. Most manufacturers outsource their brakes (Viper uses stoptech).

Tread wear does not equal grip. While the viper has wider rubber, those pirellis are not even close to cups.

[S204STi]

Pobst is an accomplished pro race car driver.  I trust his abilities.  The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.

Look at this shocks this way: most race tuning is based around the most important section of the track - where you will make or break a lap.  These shocks in a way allow you to practically tune to any corner, since you aren't stuck with one compression/rebound setting.  It makes all the difference in the world.

While I'm not a big fan of the packaging compromise found in the transverse leaf springs, there is no denying the Corvette is a heavily tuned beast even in stock form.  They've basically had to fiddle with it constantly, much like Porsche with the 911, to overcome packaging constraints.  Seems like a huge success so far...

[GoCougs]

You don't seem to understand that the leaf springs in Corvettes have several advantages over conventional coils, such as reduced unsprung weight, decreased fatigue rate, and compact packaging. It turns out to be an excellent setup for a high performance street car. The reason the race variants use coilovers is for ease of servicing and parts availability, as they may use different a coil spring and/or damper for each race.

The only advantage is they're a Corvette legacy throwback dating back 50 years. If they were all that and a bag of chips other sports cars (and exotics) would use them, let alone other GM hi-po vehicles.

[GoCougs]

He is a race driver, yes, but he doesnt seem to be the type that can handle cars like that very well, at least after having watched the other videos he has done for MT

By his legacy alone we can safely deduce that he handles them very well.

[GoCougs]

A car with a team of people the size of Corvette's is most certainly highly developed. As a platform, that car gets refined almost every year. Few other cars in its class (save the 911) can claim to have the amount of engineering resources behind it. Team Viper is tiny by comparison. BTW, their brakes are made by Brembo. Most manufacturers outsource their brakes (Viper uses stoptech).

Tread wear does not equal grip. While the viper has wider rubber, those pirellis are not even close to cups.

So what are all these resources doing while the C6 sits stale (itself an iteration of the 8-year-old C5) for 9 model years? Sure they have a team but it's nothing ginormous.

We can safely deduce that the Pirellis are fairly close to the Sport Cups in grip not only by treadwear by lateral grip and braking stats.

GM tells Brembo how to design its brakes. Brembo simply doesn't pull some random stuff off the shelf and ship it to GM. And there is more than just the HW; notably the ABS and stability control systems.

[LonghornTX]

By his legacy alone we can safely deduce that he handles them very well.

Not all racing drivers are created equal. His success came largely from SPEED touring/gt class wins where he drove sedans.

[LonghornTX]

So what are all these resources doing while the C6 sits stale (itself an iteration of the 8-year-old C5) for 9 model years? Sure they have a team but it's nothing ginormous.

We can safely deduce that the Pirellis are fairly close to the Sport Cups in grip not only by treadwear by lateral grip and braking stats.

GM tells Brembo how to design its brakes. Brembo simply doesn't pull some random stuff off the shelf and ship it to GM. And there is more than just the HW; notably the ABS and stability control systems.

Doing engineering work, testing new parts, tuning the car. Clearly, you are not too familiar with automotive delevopment. And for a niche product like a sports car, Corvette has a massive team.

Again, tread wear does not equal grip. The viper is able to put up similar static figures namely because it has much more rubber on the ground, but there is more to running on a track than braking in a straight line and cornering at a constant radius. There is a reason the ACR ran cups, they are simply the most track capable tire that can still be street driven. One need only look at the treads of the two tires to see their purposes.

Actually, for the carbon ceramics, they are pretty much off the shelf and are very similar to the ones Ferrari uses. But yes, their tuning of the abs and stability systems is proprietary. Again, this is where having a large team and lots of cash help because those tuning processes take a lot of time.

[MX793]

So what are all these resources doing while the C6 sits stale (itself an iteration of the 8-year-old C5) for 9 model years? Sure they have a team but it's nothing ginormous.

We can safely deduce that the Pirellis are fairly close to the Sport Cups in grip not only by treadwear by lateral grip and braking stats.

GM tells Brembo how to design its brakes. Brembo simply doesn't pull some random stuff off the shelf and ship it to GM. And there is more than just the HW; notably the ABS and stability control systems.

C6 is not a refreshed C5.  It was a new car.

[GoCougs]

C6 is not a refreshed C5.  It was a new car.

I didn't use the word "refresh." It's a new car but a relatively minor (mechanical) iteration of the C5 notably in the space frame chassis, F/R suspension and engine.

[MrH]

Well, I mostly agree with Longhorn here. The Cup tires are a pretty big advantage. Chrysler is claiming Pobst has always struggled with the Viper and he wasn't as close to the limits as he thought he was. I buy both of those claims. At the same time, the vette's shocks are still the top dog in the game. Not sure what the shocks on the Viper are like. I know they're adjustable, but I'm guessing it's mechanical manipulation of the valving? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But I would take the Viper any day over the corvette. Vipers are special in a way few other cars are. The V10, the looks, the sound, the proportions... It's definitely a car I'd have in my garage if I won the lottery. It's the ultimate American Muscle hammer of a car.

Been in tons of corvettes, and it just doesn't compare to the ridiculousness of the Viper. If it was a daily driver though, the corvette would be easier to live with. Apparently the new Viper has closed that gap though.

[Char]

Lap times are all about confidence, and apparently the ZR1s trick shocks provide enough of it to allow the driver to exploit it's ablilities.

[MexicoCityM3]

Pobst is a biased idiot, he lost all credibility with me in the M/T 1M group test with his absolutely outrageous and outlier comments. At the time he was getting his ass kicked week in and week out in the ALMS by the Rahal M3s.

The Corvette is the better car here, but the Viper has always been way cooler. It's a beast.

[sportyaccordy]

Yep... sometimes the better car, ISN'T the better car.

I like the Viper more personally... everyone and their 56 year old bachelor Uncle Rico has a Vette. But I can't think of anywhere the Viper would be more fun to drive, esp when you throw the magnetic shocks in the mix. Its a relic surviving on ideological appeal, but since it appeals to my biases I am OK with it.

[Cookie Monster]

To me the 'Vette is the better looking and more desirable car of the two.

[SVT666]

Yep... sometimes the better car, ISN'T the better car.

I like the Viper more personally... everyone and their 56 year old bachelor Uncle Rico has a Vette. But I can't think of anywhere the Viper would be more fun to drive, esp when you throw the magnetic shocks in the mix. Its a relic surviving on ideological appeal, but since it appeals to my biases I am OK with it.

Relic? It's an all new car.