Engine braking question

[S204STi]

Nah, that's fine.  Public roads aren't always crowded.  Though I'd start on an empty lot somewhere.

[S204STi]

I was just asking if a persons theory was plausable. Where do you get the impression that ive never driven in snow before? This is my third car with my third winter.....


The driveshaft issus sounded plausable, but it didnt really mesh up with my personal exeprience.

Woah there, billy-jean. I'm not trying to insult you, just pointing out that with experience that claim in and of itself would instantly be implausible.

[Cookie Monster]

Nah, that's fine.  Public roads aren't always crowded.  Though I'd start on an empty lot somewhere.

I really don't think encouraging your kids to do stupid stuff while learning to drive is very smart... I've done a ton of stupid things thanks to inexperience. Having my dad tell me to drive even faster probably wouldn't have helped. Parking lot or track would be fine but public roads? No thanks.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I really don't think encouraging your kids to do stupid stuff while learning to drive is very smart... I've done a ton of stupid things thanks to inexperience. Having my dad tell me to drive even faster probably wouldn't have helped. Parking lot or track would be fine but public roads? No thanks.

I disagree. Education under controlled conditions is better than figuring it out the hard/deadly way.

[AutobahnSHO]

I really don't think encouraging your kids to do stupid stuff while learning to drive is very smart... I've done a ton of stupid things thanks to inexperience. Having my dad tell me to drive even faster probably wouldn't have helped. Parking lot or track would be fine but public roads? No thanks.

You did dumb stuff in a car. I did dumb stuff in a car.
(in fact very first time with no adult in the car I was going "the long way" and ended up on a gravel road, coming around a hilly corner too fast and there were a bunch of kids in the road. I panicked, lifted, and spun out. Luckily didn't hit any of them or go off the road. And sheepishly looked to see if they'd heard me.)

*I* have the judgement to know when it's safe to do some 'extra training'. Maybe it WILL be in an empty lot. Obviously it won't be their first time behind the wheel. Obviously not when traffic is coming. Obviously not when I think there's possibility of hurting the car. And it will NEVER be STUPID, it WILL be more than usual lame driving. I will scare them. I will make them respect the responsibility that comes with driving.

All so they DON'T go doing it when it's unsafe.

[Cookie Monster]

You did dumb stuff in a car. I did dumb stuff in a car.
(in fact very first time with no adult in the car I was going "the long way" and ended up on a gravel road, coming around a hilly corner too fast and there were a bunch of kids in the road. I panicked, lifted, and spun out. Luckily didn't hit any of them or go off the road. And sheepishly looked to see if they'd heard me.)

*I* have the judgement to know when it's safe to do some 'extra training'. Maybe it WILL be in an empty lot. Obviously it won't be their first time behind the wheel. Obviously not when traffic is coming. Obviously not when I think there's possibility of hurting the car. And it will NEVER be STUPID, it WILL be more than usual lame driving. I will scare them. I will make them respect the responsibility that comes with driving.

All so they DON'T go doing it when it's unsafe.

You're the parent, I'm not, so don't take it as me telling you what to do. All I know is, my parents yelling at me to slow down and not be an idiot while driving helped me slow down and not be an idiot.

And wrt your last comment - being teenagers, they will do it when it's unsafe. It's bound to happen.

[hotrodalex]

I did a sweet dorifto around a roundabout type thing in a local park yesterday.

[giant_mtb]

When I was 14 and we had our '93 Explorer, I convinced my mom to take me to an empty parking lot during the winter so I could "practice winter driving." Which really just meant...spin donuts for 15 minutes. She didn't ride in the car with me, either, because she didn't want to get motion sickness.

[hotrodalex]

My dad took me out to a parking lot and pulled the handbrake anytime I turned the wheel, forcing me to correct the slide. And then he took over and did 180s and stuff.

[AutobahnSHO]

You're the parent, I'm not, so don't take it as me telling you what to do. All I know is, my parents yelling at me to slow down and not be an idiot while driving helped me slow down and not be an idiot.

There's a time and a place for everything. My goal is to teach them some of the limits of the car so they can respond to an emergency.

And wrt your last comment - being teenagers, they will do it when it's unsafe. It's bound to happen.

Yup. But if they learn how quickly it can get out of control in a more controlled environment, then mebbe they won't kill themselves.

[Rupert]

I'm with SHO on this.

If it snows an inch tonight, I might get some PorchRitos in.

[AutobahnSHO]

I had hoped for snow, but it never stuck and now it's totally stopped.

[Cookie Monster]

There's a time and a place for everything. My goal is to teach them some of the limits of the car so they can respond to an emergency.

Yup. But if they learn how quickly it can get out of control in a more controlled environment, then mebbe they won't kill themselves.

I think the "go too fast into a turn and brake hard" thing just didn't seem right to me. Seems like a good way to crash.

That's just me.

[AutobahnSHO]

I think the "go too fast into a turn and brake hard" thing just didn't seem right to me. Seems like a good way to crash.

That's just me.

Obviously you find somewhere with no stuff to crash into. Why would I want to wreck MY car or get injured??????????? 
Use some common sense here...   

[S204STi]

Luckily I grew up driving in an area with little to no winter traffic, so I had plenty of opportunities to explore emergency handling at lower speeds (25-ish) on snow and ice.

[shp4man]

When I was a teenager, my buddie's dad had just bought a new 1970 Impala hardtop, small block 400, nice car.
There was a paved over berm in town. Dude took it at 100mph. Impalas can fly. For a while. 

[AutobahnSHO]

When I was a teenager, my buddie's dad had just bought a new 1970 Impala hardtop, small block 400, nice car.
There was a paved over berm in town. Dude took it at 100mph. Impalas can fly. For a while. 

car was made deaded??

[shp4man]

car was made deaded??

It made it through- the dad never found out.

[AutobahnSHO]

It made it through- the dad never found out.

wowsers!!

I took off a muffler or two on the really old Datsun the Subaru I was "lent".. 

[Rupert]

A friend once put his parents' MPV in a ditch at 90, and they never found out.

[sportyaccordy]

I agree on the steep mountain pass. But that's the extent of the usefulness of engine braking.

In a car, yes. On the bike, if I can't use engine braking, I'm either going too fast or following too closely. Plus those clutches are made to be used more frequently. Driving a car at engine speeds where engine braking can bring the car to a stop is a PITA but on a bike its recommended.

I think its prob most logical to rely on the brakes in the car, but mastering engine braking + rev match downshifting never hurts. For example, if your car's brakes are overheated, shifting down a few gears will help you slow down. Since the brakes are so far below threshold, the risk of locking anything up is much lower.

[Eye of the Tiger]

In a car, yes. On the bike, if I can't use engine braking, I'm either going too fast or following too closely. Plus those clutches are made to be used more frequently. Driving a car at engine speeds where engine braking can bring the car to a stop is a PITA but on a bike its recommended.

I think its prob most logical to rely on the brakes in the car, but mastering engine braking + rev match downshifting never hurts. For example, if your car's brakes are overheated, shifting down a few gears will help you slow down. Since the brakes are so far below threshold, the risk of locking anything up is much lower.

Most high performance bikes have slipper clutches to limit the force of engine braking, which is far more sophisticated than the sprung clutch discs and driveline lash on most cars.

[S204STi]

In a car, yes. On the bike, if I can't use engine braking, I'm either going too fast or following too closely. Plus those clutches are made to be used more frequently. Driving a car at engine speeds where engine braking can bring the car to a stop is a PITA but on a bike its recommended.

I think its prob most logical to rely on the brakes in the car, but mastering engine braking + rev match downshifting never hurts. For example, if your car's brakes are overheated, shifting down a few gears will help you slow down. Since the brakes are so far below threshold, the risk of locking anything up is much lower.

Agree.