The G-spot

[GoCougs]

Did you "no" my answer to your yes or no question?  And then tell me what other people do as if that's applicable to me?  Also, I have a BMW with 75,000 miles on it right now. Do you think those cars that people turn in on lease just dissolve when they hand the keys back to the dealer?  There's something fucking wrong with you, dude.

I don't know now.

That "you" was a universal you, precognitively answered via the already well-known sky-high lease take rates of German luxury marques - like 70%+ for BMW.

The people who matter (i.e., buy the cars new) don't want those cars with 40k+ miles. Surely, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they lease because they can't afford the car but at lot of it has to do with not owning a reliability liability.

[Raza]

I don't know now.

That "you" was a universal you, precognitively answered via the already well-known sky-high lease take rates of German luxury marques - like 70%+ for BMW.

The people who matter (i.e., buy the cars new) don't want those cars with 40k+ miles. Surely, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they lease because they can't afford the car but at lot of it has to do with not owning a reliability liability.

I think most people return leases so they can lease a newer car.  People in the lux car market want to have something new so they can shove it in other people's faces.

[GoCougs]

And I'm sure no one even leases Japanese cars to return them when the lease terms are over?  You're a joke.

Sure they do, but the least take rate on German cars is much higher.

[GoCougs]

I think most people return leases so they can lease a newer car.  People in the lux car market want to have something new so they can shove it in other people's faces.

And why do they want a newer car, especially given that German model life cycle is usually double or triple the average 2-3 year lease?

[hotrodalex]

Because new is better. Can't be seen in last year's model.

[GoCougs]

Because new is better. Can't be seen in last year's model.

False. People lease because they can't afford the cars and don't want to own a car past its warranty period.

[Soup DeVille]

False. People lease because they can't afford the cars and don't want to own a car past its warranty period.

I have to think that when it comes to "image" cars, a lot of people make purchase decisions based on image.

[hotrodalex]

BMW dealers seem to mention leasing a lot more than other dealerships, so that could be part of it.

[SVT666]

Dealers love leases because then they get a nearly spotless BMW back that they can sell at inflated prices and call it "Certified".

[CJ]

The 335ix is only one of dozens of iterations of the class. The rest of the class doesn't come close to that level of performance...

The S4 (price is within a spitting distance of the 335xi and you KNOW they are cross-shopped) is almost just as fast. These are serious numbers. A4 vs. 328i vs. S60 T5, these cars are all pretty quick.

[Raza]

False. People lease because they can't afford the cars and don't want to own a car past its warranty period.

So what kind of German car ran over your dog when you were a kid?  You should probably talk to a professional. 

[12,000 RPM]

False. People lease because they can't afford the cars and don't want to own a car past its warranty period.

Latter is true, former is questionable

[Lebowski]

Latter is true, former is questionable

Funny I think the opposite ... IMO people do lease because they can't afford the cars, but I think it has little to do w/ warranty and a lot more just wanting what's shiny and new.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

WTF, just looked at infiniti's site. They pulled a GM and placed the Q cheaper than an M even though I assume it's the meant to be the top sedan in their lineup? Please tell me the didn't go all the way and make it maxima based.

[2o6]

WTF, just looked at infiniti's site. They pulled a GM and placed the Q cheaper than an M even though I assume it's the meant to be the top sedan in their lineup? Please tell me the didn't go all the way and make it maxima based.

No, Infinti switched to this dumb ass naming structure.


Q50 - G

Q30 - smaller than the G

Q70? - M

and they use QX for SUV's.....

[FlatBlackCaddy]

So... the Q50 is the next g sedan?

WTF, so the numerical aspect of the name does NOT represent engine size?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Stupid Infiniti, they were actually starting to dig themselves out and make some sense and develop some brand recognition. Chopping and changing shit up isn't going to help and is what has given cadillac problems for decades.

[Soup DeVille]

Stupid Infiniti, they were actually starting to dig themselves out and make some sense and develop some brand recognition. Chopping and changing shit up isn't going to help and is what has given cadillac problems for decades.

Cadillac's problem was lackluster cars. Their naming conventions were stable for a long, long time: and never this confusing.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Cadillac's problem was lackluster cars. Their naming conventions were stable for a long, long time: and never this confusing.

Stable for a long time? Not really, they just sold the same model for 13 years with no updates. They still dropped or changed the name each(or every other) time they did a redesign. And yes, their cars sucked.

Still it's important to keep a model around and gain equity in it, even if it wasn't the best CAR in it's class at the time. The G has a few generations under it's belt. It holds a visible place in the entry lux segment. It's foolish to reorginize, even what BMW is doing now is stupid. They have the market presence to do that, Infiniti doesn't and should have kept their current naming convention.

[Soup DeVille]

Stable for a long time? Not really, they just sold the same model for 13 years with no updates. They still dropped or changed the name each(or every other) time they did a redesign. And yes, their cars sucked.

Still it's important to keep a model around and gain equity in it, even if it wasn't the best CAR in it's class at the time. The G has a few generations under it's belt. It holds a visible place in the entry lux segment. It's foolish to reorginize, even what BMW is doing now is stupid. They have the market presence to do that, Infiniti doesn't and should have kept their current naming convention.

Ehh, they had the Deville: changed it to the DTS. Same story with the rest of their cars basically. A few years ago they added the "V-series" stuff. I don't see that as a lot of change.

[CALL_911]

Saw a Q50 today. Quite a good looking car, I'm sure it'll do very well. I don't like Infiniti's stupid new naming scheme, but the car itself is nice- way nicer than the G37, imo.


That said, personally, I don't want one as much as I would like a G37.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Ehh, they had the Deville: changed it to the DTS. Same story with the rest of their cars basically. A few years ago they added the "V-series" stuff. I don't see that as a lot of change.

They had the deville, changed it to dts, dropped the line, resurfaced as the xts(or whatever). I'm sure the xts will be renamed in the next redesign. Compare that to some mainstream and other luxury brands that have had ONE model name for a segment in the same time span as the above.

[Soup DeVille]

They had the deville, changed it to dts, dropped the line, resurfaced as the xts(or whatever). I'm sure the xts will be renamed in the next redesign. Compare that to some mainstream and other luxury brands that have had ONE model name for a segment in the same time span as the above.

If you include the Deville's entire history, that's like a fifty year time span.

[GoCougs]

So... the Q50 is the next g sedan?

WTF, so the numerical aspect of the name does NOT represent engine size?

It started out that way but just a few days ago Nissan announced that they will drop the price on the G ~$5k and make it through MY2015. IMO they realized how big of mistake they made. The G was a big success because it was the cheapest of the class yet still very good. They've screwed up the Q and M in similar fashion. The first iterations (not including the re-badged Nissan Gloria-based M) were cheap yet pretty good. Nissan tried to go upscale on follow-on generations and the cars sold poorly. Idiots.

[GoCougs]

Saw a Q50 today. Quite a good looking car, I'm sure it'll do very well. I don't like Infiniti's stupid new naming scheme, but the car itself is nice- way nicer than the G37, imo.


That said, personally, I don't want one as much as I would like a G37.

Not so sure about "way" nicer. I saw some body panel gap issues with the front nose and some of the bits are cheap (the door handles are flimsy as hell). The cars without the 19" sport wheels look downright poor.

[12,000 RPM]

Cant knock Infiniti for trying to become more profitable

Though again pretty fucking stupid to throw all that brand equity out the window... Acura did the same when they went alphanumeric and I'm not sure they ever recovered

[Cookie Monster]

Cant knock Infiniti for trying to become more profitable

Though again pretty fucking stupid to throw all that brand equity out the window... Acura did the same when they went alphanumeric and I'm not sure they ever recovered

Acura went alphanumeric in the early/mid '90's... the names weren't the problem, the lack of RWD/V8 and a flagship car and fugly styling hurt them the most.

[2o6]

Acura went alphanumeric in the early/mid '90's... the names weren't the problem, the lack of RWD/V8 and a flagship car and fugly styling hurt them the most.

I wouldn't even say the lack of RWD V8, but the fact that they started sharing more and more both visually and mechanically with Honda.


I mean the old Legend and Vigor were FWD, but very different from the Accord. The Integra was Civic based, yes, but bigger and nicer. Then they started to mirror Honda products too much.....and now they're just hideous and not special.

[Cookie Monster]

I wouldn't even say the lack of RWD V8, but the fact that they started sharing more and more both visually and mechanically with Honda.


I mean the old Legend and Vigor were FWD, but very different from the Accord. The Integra was Civic based, yes, but bigger and nicer. Then they started to mirror Honda products too much.....and now they're just hideous and not special.

Nah, I don't think so. Not to derail the thread even more, but the other than the ILX and TSX (which isn't even available here as a Honda Accord), there aren't any others that share a ton with Hondas. Sure, there's the MDX/Pilot, but that's their high volume seller, so you can't attribute Acura's failure to that. The RDX, TL and RLX all don't really have equivalents in the Honda line other than sharing the same engine architecture as some of the Hondas. It's more of the horrible styling and FWD basis (TL is pretty much ugliest in class and only still FWD car in class as well) or being super uncompetitive (RLX) that's killing them. They need something to at least compete with the midsize end of the luxury market (5/A6 competitor), even if they don't have a big RWD/V8 S/7/A8 competitor.

[Raza]

Nah, I don't think so. Not to derail the thread even more, but the other than the ILX and TSX (which isn't even available here as a Honda Accord), there aren't any others that share a ton with Hondas. Sure, there's the MDX/Pilot, but that's their high volume seller, so you can't attribute Acura's failure to that. The RDX, TL and RLX all don't really have equivalents in the Honda line other than sharing the same engine architecture as some of the Hondas. It's more of the horrible styling and FWD basis (TL is pretty much ugliest in class and only still FWD car in class as well) or being super uncompetitive (RLX) that's killing them. They need something to at least compete with the midsize end of the luxury market (5/A6 competitor), even if they don't have a big RWD/V8 S/7/A8 competitor.

RWD doesn't mean anything anymore.  Everyone is convinced that they need AWD or they'll die.  Lexus dealers, for example, doesn't even stock RWD cars when AWD is available in certain parts of the country.  When my brother was looking at a GS, the only way to get a RWD one was to dealer trade with another dealer hundreds of miles south of here.