The G-spot

[GoCougs]

Anything Michelin Pilot is a definite no-go. MXM4s are already and so far so good (far better than the Dunlops). Will take some miles to burn through residual mold release to get the full picture though...

[MX793]

I didn't think MXM4s were particularly high performance.  Seems like they're used where noise and fuel economy are top priorities.  IIRC, they are predominantly fitted by the OEMs on mainstream vehicles, not performance cars.

[MexicoCityM3]

Anything Michelin Pilot is a definite no-go.

Why? I love the Pilot Super Sports.

[GoCougs]

Meh, they're hi-po enough. Low road noise is by far my #1 priority and distant #2 is ride quality. Life's too short for me to have a bunch of NVH. Via ATTESA-ETS and whatever else the car has plenty of handling performance. Pilot anything is gonna be louder and rougher and probably not as robust (I do a decent amount of rural/gravel road driving).

[hotrodalex]

Life's too short for me to have anything but BFG Rivals even in the snow.

[SVT666]

I got Goodyear Eagle LS2 tires for my G37 and they are much quieter, and yet provide decent cornering and grip.

[MX793]

I've had MXM4s. One of the worst tires I've ever owned. They were the stock set on my Wolfsburg, I couldn't wait to change them.

Michelin makes 2 different tires designated MXM4.  One is the Pilot HX MXM4 and the other is the Primacy MXM4.  Neither are actually performance tires (Tire Rack includes both in their "grand touring" tires section, which is code for "sportier side of mainstream").  The Pilot HX is rated pretty poorly relative to the rest of class and is the one more often spec'ed by the OEMs (I know Accords come with these, or at least used to in recent years).  The Primacy has decent ratings within its class (Tire Rack consumer surveys put it 7th in class overall).

[GoCougs]

I'm still irked the audio place botched my appointment. Really wanted the sound deadening done. The MXM4s are big improvement but more would be welcomed.

[Raza]

I could literally not find a hi-po all season that was better rated for ride + road noise; TireRack or elsewhere.

A lot of it has to do with the car too. Car design (esp. suspension and chassis performance) these days is enormously complex, and it most certainly includes tires. I could definitely see one set of tires working well on one car and working horribly on another.

Might well be the case. They suck if you ever drive hard though.

[GoCougs]

Might well be the case. They suck if you ever drive hard though.

Meh, I've never been a big believer in "performance" tires. Conditions have to be fairly narrow to get their advantage - can't be too cold, can't be wet, have to have some heat in the tires, and of course have to have a road where it's safe to get a bit wild - and outside this fairly narrow window (98% of driving for most) and they suck compared to a more "mainstream" A/S, including ride and road noise. No thanks, life's too short - if I wanted such restriction I'd simply have a second "performance" car.

[12,000 RPM]

My Nitto 555s are good to go pretty much as soon as I turn out of the driveway.

They are a bitch in the wet, but then thats probably more the car than anything, and in any case hooning in the rain is idiotic.

Wife's car came with some Continental all seasons... now some of it is just how soft and tall the car is, and some of it is the high profile tire size, but I bet the tires themselves are way worse. They give out easy to the point that I have to completely recalibrate what's "fast" while I'm driving. Chassis has potential but it's not worth investing in.

Point being with high po tires you can have your cake and eat it too. The difference is appreciable.

[MX793]

Meh, I've never been a big believer in "performance" tires. Conditions have to be fairly narrow to get their advantage - can't be too cold, can't be wet, have to have some heat in the tires, and of course have to have a road where it's safe to get a bit wild - and outside this fairly narrow window (98% of driving for most) and they suck compared to a more "mainstream" A/S, including ride and road noise. No thanks, life's too short - if I wanted such restriction I'd simply have a second "performance" car.

My summer-only "ultra high performance" tires trump the "performance A/S" tires that came on my car in all conditions but cold (<35F) and, obviously, snow.  It's no contest in the rain.  My old A/S tires would break loose under power during a 3rd gear roll-on in the wet.  Made for some interesting highway merges in the rain.  And the grip is there immediately, no meaningful warm up time required to have more grip on hand than the A/S tires.  These aren't gooey, <200 TW track or autocross tires or R-comp slicks, they are street-oriented performance tires  They are slightly noisier, but very acceptable (I can still hear the radio clearly at the same volume level as with the OE tires).  Ride is a little firmer, but that can't entirely be blamed on the tire since I went up a rim size which made the sidewalls shorter.

[565]

Meh, they're hi-po enough. Low road noise is by far my #1 priority and distant #2 is ride quality. Life's too short for me to have a bunch of NVH. Via ATTESA-ETS and whatever else the car has plenty of handling performance. Pilot anything is gonna be louder and rougher and probably not as robust (I do a decent amount of rural/gravel road driving).

I just got a set of pilot super sports for the Z06.  I had to go ... creative... with the sizes because they didn't come in stock sizes.  Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if the PSS is quieter than the MXM4.  The Z06 with PSS's is quieter than my folks 08 Accord with new MXM4s, also quieter than their MDX with new Latitude Tour HPs, and quieter than a G37 with relatively new Kumhos.  Actually currently the Z06 with PSS has less road noise than anything I've owned. 

I don't think its the car because before the Z06 with Toyo's had a lot of road noise.  Look on the forums, everyone that has switched to the PSS notes that it's an eerily  quiet tire. 

Personally I'd get a Pilot Sport AS3 for the G37 if I needed longer life than the PSS.  It's a new generation of tire technology with a lot more silica in the compound, a feature it shares with the PSS (and I think it has even more silica).  Before I bought the PSS tires, I ordered a set of PS2s for the Z06, My folks recently got a set of MXM4s for their accord and Latitudes for their MDX.  It's clear that the PSS and AS3 are fundamentally different in their compound.  The PS2, MXM4, and Latitude look like any other rubber tire, but the PSS on the Z06 and the AS3s I've seen at Costco almost look like they are made of plastic when they are new, there is a inherent shine to them, and the AS3 more than the PSS in this repect.  When you touch the tread, it feels more plastic like than rubbery, almost like plastic tires on a toy car. 


Anyway the PSS tires are unbelievable.  Incredible quietness, wonderful ride, incredible wet traction, incredible dry traction, awesome tracking.  With Toyos, the Z06 couldn't take full throttle in 1st, would spin a lot on the 1-2 upshift, spin a tiny bit on the 2-3 upshift, and chirp the 3-4 sometimes.  With the PSS, I can dead hook first, and just barely chirp the 1-2 upshift.  I swear the tire is made from stolen alien technology, the tread feels incredibly stiff and hard to the touch, and you'd expect them not to grip anything, except that you can see that all kinds of seeds, small leaves, twigs, insects have been magically glued to the tread from it's inherent unexplainable adhesiveness.  Michelin has changed the game with these tires.  I'm gotta buy them for any vehicle that will fit them, and for those that don't I'll get the AS3 (which seems to share this supernatural compound).

[GoCougs]

I have a friend with a 996T and fairly new PSS and it is loud as hell (he was going to use the same audio place I was going to use to get the sound insulation stuff installed). To be fair I didn't ride in it before he got the PSS.

My hunch is look/feel doesn't say much about a new tire - tires are all loaded up with mold release and it takes some miles to burn it off.

I spent a fair amount of time with different dudes at TireRack and MXM4 that was their suggestion. It's not a cheap tire - the most expensive Michelin in my size, including more than the PSS. Overall ratings are virtually identical Sport A/S 3 vs. MXM4 with the former better grip in wet/dry and latter a bit better in snow/ice grip and road noise (they were tied for ride). True those TireRack surveys are a bit bogus since it doesn't control for cars but it's better than nothing.

[Raza]

Meh, I've never been a big believer in "performance" tires. Conditions have to be fairly narrow to get their advantage - can't be too cold, can't be wet, have to have some heat in the tires, and of course have to have a road where it's safe to get a bit wild - and outside this fairly narrow window (98% of driving for most) and they suck compared to a more "mainstream" A/S, including ride and road noise. No thanks, life's too short - if I wanted such restriction I'd simply have a second "performance" car.

I could feel every advantage of DWSs over MXM4s every time I drove.  Maybe you just drive your family sedan like a big softie?   

[MX793]

I have a friend with a 996T and fairly new PSS and it is loud as hell (he was going to use the same audio place I was going to use to get the sound insulation stuff installed). To be fair I didn't ride in it before he got the PSS.

My hunch is look/feel doesn't say much about a new tire - tires are all loaded up with mold release and it takes some miles to burn it off.

I spent a fair amount of time with different dudes at TireRack and MXM4 that was their suggestion. It's not a cheap tire - the most expensive Michelin in my size, including more than the PSS. Overall ratings are virtually identical Sport A/S 3 vs. MXM4 with the former better grip in wet/dry and latter a bit better in snow/ice grip and road noise (they were tied for ride). True those TireRack surveys are a bit bogus since it doesn't control for cars but it's better than nothing.

The car was likely loud with the previous tires as well...

One of the biggest sources of road noise from a tire are sipes/grooves/blocks on the tread.  The more sipes/grooves/blocks in the tread pattern, the louder the tire.  That's why snow tires and luggy A/T tires are loud as hell.  A/S tires generally have more sipes/grooves and a blockier tread than summer tires to permit them to be more functional in snow.  That will make them inherently louder than a tire with fewer sipes/grooves, though manufacturers have sunk a great deal of R&D into making A/S tires quieter because they are standard equipment on most vehicles.

[565]

I have a friend with a 996T and fairly new PSS and it is loud as hell (he was going to use the same audio place I was going to use to get the sound insulation stuff installed). To be fair I didn't ride in it before he got the PSS.

My hunch is look/feel doesn't say much about a new tire - tires are all loaded up with mold release and it takes some miles to burn it off.

I spent a fair amount of time with different dudes at TireRack and MXM4 that was their suggestion. It's not a cheap tire - the most expensive Michelin in my size, including more than the PSS. Overall ratings are virtually identical Sport A/S 3 vs. MXM4 with the former better grip in wet/dry and latter a bit better in snow/ice grip and road noise (they were tied for ride). True those TireRack surveys are a bit bogus since it doesn't control for cars but it's better than nothing.

PSS doesn't have any mold release compound.  It's ready to go out of the box.  I've put over 1000 miles on them and they haven't changed in character. The MXM4 is just outdated technology.  The PS2s were also more expensive than the PSS, and I initially had a set ordered from tire rack before I exchanged them for PSS. 

[GoCougs]

I could feel every advantage of DWSs over MXM4s every time I drove.  Maybe you just drive your family sedan like a big softie?   

Maybe a bit. I'm a bit of a snob and wouldn't ever buy a Continental tire. As is the G37 in total is a good handler with fairly high and predictable limits no matter what tire is on the car (that isn't a snow tire - those are awful on bare roads). Road noise, ride and durability way trump everything else. I'm also gonna try to make it through the winter with these tires - any sort of "ultra performance" tire just couldn't do it.

[GoCougs]

The car was likely loud with the previous tires as well...

One of the biggest sources of road noise from a tire are sipes/grooves/blocks on the tread.  The more sipes/grooves/blocks in the tread pattern, the louder the tire.  That's why snow tires and luggy A/T tires are loud as hell.  A/S tires generally have more sipes/grooves and a blockier tread than summer tires to permit them to be more functional in snow.  That will make them inherently louder than a tire with fewer sipes/grooves, though manufacturers have sunk a great deal of R&D into making A/S tires quieter because they are standard equipment on most vehicles.

Perhaps it was still loud.

Actually, the bigger (surface area) the tread block the more the road noise as it transmits more into the chassis. Ditto for stiffer sidewalls of hi-po/summer tires. 4WD tires' tread blocks is a different mechanism as noise primarily comes from the tread itself vibrating/resonating at speed (the characteristic hum).

[GoCougs]

PSS doesn't have any mold release compound.  It's ready to go out of the box.  I've put over 1000 miles on them and they haven't changed in character. The MXM4 is just outdated technology.  The PS2s were also more expensive than the PSS, and I initially had a set ordered from tire rack before I exchanged them for PSS. 

Perhaps the PSS doesn't use mold compound - most all other tires do so a visual comparison of the PSS vs. other tires on the showroom floor I don't think says a whole lot.

Maybe the MXM4 is "outdated" tech but anything Pilot just doesn't fit my criteria. Now that I've got a ~300 miles into these tires the have smoothed and quieted down even further - they blow the stock Dunlops away, which is what I was looking for.

[hotrodalex]

I'm a bit of a snob and wouldn't ever buy a Continental tire.

[CJ]

I don't get it either, Alex. 

[Morris Minor]

The transmission, the car's second, holds me back from ever loving my G37.

[GoCougs]

Agree, it's just not all that responsive and when in D shifts are mushy - can actually be sorta dangerous when in traffic. Any sort of on-demand driving has to be done via manual shifting.

[12,000 RPM]

What's wrong with 2nd? Didn't notice anything weird in the 370ZA I drove.

[Laconian]

My rear suspension is getting noisy. Apparently it's a co$tly fix.

[68_427]

My rear suspension is getting noisy. Apparently it's a co$tly fix.

[Laconian]

The entire hardtop has to be removed to get at the shocks.

[68_427]

oops

[Laconian]

Yeah, sigh.