The G-spot

[MexicoCityM3]

C'mon, man, that's near the bottom of the segment with the IS250.

lol

The 28i is actually the pick of the range IMO.

[SVT666]

lol

The 28i is actually the pick of the range IMO.

Me too.  I'm not crazy about the turbo 4 pot though.  It would actually prevent me from ever buying one because I would be buying used and the turbo replacement would be an absolute bank account destroyer in a BMW.

[MexicoCityM3]

Me too.  I'm not crazy about the turbo 4 pot though.  It would actually prevent me from ever buying one because I would be buying used and the turbo replacement would be an absolute bank account destroyer in a BMW.

Depends on the mileage though. I'd think it should last 80-100K miles.

Soon there won't be anything N/A in the segment however.

[12,000 RPM]

If I could get the same performance out of my Z with better gas mileage Id go boost no problem. Lot of folks who do small turbos say they see improved gas mileage when they don't get deep into boost. Plus its not like the VQ37 sounds great revved up to where it makes power.

[afty]

I changed the battery in my G today.  It's kind of a pain -- the battery is right next to the firewall (presumably to improve weight distribution), so you have to remove various trim piece to get to it.  Also my batteries only seem to last 3, 3 1/2 years. 

[GoCougs]

Depends on the mileage though. I'd think it should last 80-100K miles.

Soon there won't be anything N/A in the segment however.

Probably so. The Japanese have shunned F/I but then again the haven't advance their motors in years - Jesus, the IS350 is using the same 306 hp motor that debuted 10 years ago . Shame really. So much goodness to be had if they didn't have to bow to (defeatist) regulation.

[Raza]

I know. Thing is, that 8AT is apparently so good that it wouldn't matter. Toyota doesn't have a rep for making great MTs, but that 8AT has been getting rave reviews. I'd much rather have a well sorted AT than a shitty MT.

ATs/DSGs have gotten so good that lack of a MT is no longer a deal breaker for me. Makes the car less appealing, sure. MTs are irrational choices these days, but I can't say I wouldn't go for one if I had the option (and it was good).

8 speeds!  Awesome! 

Wait, we're talking about a car, not a mountain bike?

[Raza]

People say autos have got a lot better and Ive driven the best of em.... I still want stickshift though.

[SVT666]

I changed the battery in my G today.  It's kind of a pain -- the battery is right next to the firewall (presumably to improve weight distribution), so you have to remove various trim piece to get to it.  Also my batteries only seem to last 3, 3 1/2 years.

I did that a month ago.  For the life of me I can't figure out why there is a battery cover with an access panel, if I have to remove all the trim on that side of the engine bay to get the battery out.  Just make the access panel bigger so I can just pull the damn thing out.

[SVT666]

If I could get the same performance out of my Z with better gas mileage Id go boost no problem. Lot of folks who do small turbos say they see improved gas mileage when they don't get deep into boost. Plus its not like the VQ37 sounds great revved up to where it makes power.

Marginal at best.

[SVT666]

Depends on the mileage though. I'd think it should last 80-100K miles.

Soon there won't be anything N/A in the segment however.

I bought my Explorer with 30K miles and now it has 120K miles.  If it had an EcoBoost, I would have had to replace the turbo already.  My Inifiniti had 40K miles when I bought it and now it's at 98K miles. Again, I would be replacing turbos since no one would buy a car they would have to immediately sink $5K into for a new turbo. I will never buy a turbo car.  Supercharged? Yes. Turbo? No.

[GoCougs]

If everything does go turbo it's going to change the calculus of buying used cars. Turbos are okay if you unload it before 100,000 miles.

[Tave]

I would expect the useful life of the turbo to increase significantly given its recent wide-scale adoption and general advances in quality, as well a corresponding decrease in repair costs as it becomes a more common, well-supplied procedure.

[CJ]

If everything does go turbo it's going to change the calculus of buying used cars. Turbos are okay if you unload it before 100,000 miles.

Why did my 850 have 200,000+ miles on the original turbo?  Why does my current 940 have 265,000 miles on the original turbo? Turbos are fine. 2001 S60 T5 came in Monday with 292,000 miles on it, original turbo, needed cam seals, customer declined.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Why did my 850 have 200,000+ miles on the original turbo?  Why does my current 940 have 265,000 miles on the original turbo? Turbos are fine. 2001 S60 T5 came in Monday with 292,000 miles on it, original turbo, needed cam seals, customer declined.

Volvo uses special self-healing turbos.

[SVT666]

Why did my 850 have 200,000+ miles on the original turbo?  Why does my current 940 have 265,000 miles on the original turbo? Turbos are fine. 2001 S60 T5 came in Monday with 292,000 miles on it, original turbo, needed cam seals, customer declined.

I don't drive like a grandma. My car would always have the turbos spooled up.

[12,000 RPM]

Why did my 850 have 200,000+ miles on the original turbo?  Why does my current 940 have 265,000 miles on the original turbo? Turbos are fine. 2001 S60 T5 came in Monday with 292,000 miles on it, original turbo, needed cam seals, customer declined.

Because Cougs doesnt know what hes talking about.

A well designed turbocharged engine will last no problem. You look at something like one of those little diesel trucks, they have long warranties (150K+ miles) and minimal maintenance within that. Hino 195's turbodiesel 4 banger is rated for 400,000 miles before a needing a rebuild

NA is best.... at a race track at sea level. Cars do have more potential for problems today than they used to but that's because of electronics and cost cutting, not turbocharging.

Marginal at best.

An extra 80-100 horsepower to the wheels with either no loss or actually an improvement in gas mileage is marginal at best?

Admittedly durability is a concern; 8 psi is deemed "safe" but might not take the engine to 300K. But who keeps cars for that long anyway?

[CJ]

I don't drive like a grandma. My car would always have the turbos spooled up.

I drive like a grandma, but I do not drive a turbocharged vehicle like a grandma.  Boost is fun.

[MX793]

An extra 80-100 horsepower to the wheels with either no loss or actually an improvement in gas mileage is marginal at best?

This makes zero sense.  If people are putting turbos on their VQs and getting better mileage it's because they are driving them very differently post-turbo, not because it will actually improve fuel efficiency.  At any amount of boost, you're putting more air into the engine than if naturally aspirated.  More air requires more fuel.  So at any RPM, that motor will be burning more fuel than it was before forced induction.

[SVT666]

Because Cougs doesnt know what hes talking about.

A well designed turbocharged engine will last no problem. You look at something like one of those little diesel trucks, they have long warranties (150K+ miles) and minimal maintenance within that. Hino 195's turbodiesel 4 banger is rated for 400,000 miles before a needing a rebuild

NA is best.... at a race track at sea level. Cars do have more potential for problems today than they used to but that's because of electronics and cost cutting, not turbocharging.
An extra 80-100 horsepower to the wheels with either no loss or actually an improvement in gas mileage is marginal at best?

Not true.  EcoBoost proves that.  The improvement in fuel economy over an equivalent power V6 is minimal at best.  Same with the EcoBoost V6 compared to an equivalent power V8.  EcoBoost isn't unique in that either. 

[GoCougs]

Why did my 850 have 200,000+ miles on the original turbo?  Why does my current 940 have 265,000 miles on the original turbo? Turbos are fine. 2001 S60 T5 came in Monday with 292,000 miles on it, original turbo, needed cam seals, customer declined.

Just because an engine still runs or a turbo turns doesn't mean it isn't shot (99% guarantee those engines and/or turbos were toast).

Turbos are fine, as long as you sell it within ~100,000 miles.

[MX793]

Just because an engine still runs or a turbo turns doesn't mean it isn't shot (99% guarantee those engines and/or turbos were toast).

Turbos are fine, as long as you sell it within ~100,000 miles.

When a turbo goes kaput, it's pretty obvious.  Bearings seize or the compressor blows pieces of itself into the intake or the turbine throws pieces out the exhaust and the car suffers a major drop in power.

Turbos can last a long time if they are designed properly and one pays attention to lubrication and cooling.  Change the oil frequently and use high-quality oil and allow the turbo some cool-down time before shutting the engine off (or get a turbo-timer, I think many new turbocharged cars have them from the factory now) so that oil doesn't carbonize in the bearings and they hold up much longer.

[GoCougs]

Because Cougs doesnt know what hes talking about.

A well designed turbocharged engine will last no problem. You look at something like one of those little diesel trucks, they have long warranties (150K+ miles) and minimal maintenance within that. Hino 195's turbodiesel 4 banger is rated for 400,000 miles before a needing a rebuild

So I don't know what I'm talking about, kinda like how adding a turbo to a VQ improves mileage? (C'mon, man.)

Your attempt at equivalency are not successful. First, big rigs are designed for more mileage, big rigs operate much more often at constant speed, and big rigs do untold higher mileage between starts/stops.

[CJ]

Just because an engine still runs or a turbo turns doesn't mean it isn't shot (99% guarantee those engines and/or turbos were toast).

Turbos are fine, as long as you sell it within ~100,000 miles.

So that explains why the compression was on the high end of spec on my 850, boost came in smoothly, and the turbo had no shaft play.  That car did not consume any oil. 

[GoCougs]

When a turbo goes kaput, it's pretty obvious.  Bearings seize or the compressor blows pieces of itself into the intake or the turbine throws pieces out the exhaust and the car suffers a major drop in power.

Turbos can last a long time if they are designed properly and one pays attention to lubrication and cooling.  Change the oil frequently and use high-quality oil and allow the turbo some cool-down time before shutting the engine off (or get a turbo-timer, I think many new turbocharged cars have them from the factory now) so that oil doesn't carbonize in the bearings and they hold up much longer.

Sure, if a turbo goes kaput in that manner. Lots of turbos have seal issues, which can go/do go slowly.

Turbos can last but they'll almost never last as long as the engine itself. Billions $$$ spent and Ford took the very rare step (and as a matter of bragging) to tell customers EcoBoost V6 turbos are good for 150,000 miles.

[MX793]

Sure, if a turbo goes kaput in that manner. Lots of turbos have seal issues, which can go/do go slowly.

Turbos can last but they'll almost never last as long as the engine itself. Billions $$$ spent and Ford took the very rare step (and as a matter of bragging) to tell customers EcoBoost V6 turbos are good for 150,000 miles.

150,000 was the mileage at which a statistically significant number of turbo failures are expected, not a hard number at which all turbos will require replacement or a firm expiration point for a turbo.  I'll bet the average will last 200,000, maybe more.

[hotrodalex]

150,000 was the mileage at which a statistically significant number of turbo failures are expected, not a hard number at which all turbos will require replacement or a firm expiration point for a turbo.  I'll bet the average will last 200,000, maybe more.

Then why didn't they say 200k?

[MX793]

Then why didn't they say 200k?

"Average" can mean that a large portion still see failures before 200K miles.  If Ford told people they'll last for 200K miles and 1/3 of owners experience failures at 155K miles, the average life could still be 200K miles but they're going to have a lot of unhappy customers.  Ford's life estimate was based on calculations that would show the mileage at which a statistically significant portion would start failing.  I don't know what the "statistically significant" portion is.  1%?  5%?  10%?  It will certainly be relatively small.  I suspect no more than 10%.

[GoCougs]

So that explains why the compression was on the high end of spec on my 850, boost came in smoothly, and the turbo had no shaft play.  That car did not consume any oil. 

So my neighbor once swore up and down his '70s Chevy truck with the original 350 had flipped it's odometer 3x (i.e., 300,000+ miles). It was probably true but does that mean many/most 350s will last that long?

[Tave]

When a turbo goes kaput, it's pretty obvious.  Bearings seize or the compressor blows pieces of itself into the intake or the turbine throws pieces out the exhaust and the car suffers a major drop in power.

Turbos can last a long time if they are designed properly and one pays attention to lubrication and cooling.  Change the oil frequently and use high-quality oil and allow the turbo some cool-down time before shutting the engine off (or get a turbo-timer, I think many new turbocharged cars have them from the factory now) so that oil doesn't carbonize in the bearings and they hold up much longer.

Yeah my engine runs until the turbo cools down after I shut it off.