in the U.S. is diesel worth it?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Diesels can be indicted and rejected on this and this alone. Diesel fuel itself is a disaster - smelly, slow to evaporate, and just LOOK at the greazy mess that is the average diesel fuel pump.

One has to wonder if Ayn Rand ever drove a diesel.

[850CSi]

One has to wonder if Ayn Rand ever drove a diesel.

More likely drank it than filled her car up with it.

[850CSi]

I got your point, my point is that every engine option is a balance of power, fuel economy and price. People here are making all sorts of generalizations about diesel engines themselves which I think is just silly because the sample size of diesel engines in the US is very small.

A Jetta gasser can be expected to average around 28 mpg (23 city, 33 hwy) and a diesel 36 mpg (30/42). The difference is price is $2,725. The average price of gasoline is $3.357/gal, the average for diesel is $3.927.

If you drive 15,000 miles per year you would expect to use 535.71 gal of gasoline or 416.67 gal of diesel. The cost difference is $162.12 in favour of the diesel. Bam, there you go, you should buy the diesel. The $2,725 upfront cost difference is a red herring: the future value of the diesel when you decide to sell it will be commensurately higher than the equivalent gas model.

Are they harder to sell, though?

[93JC]

I did a cursory search on Autotrader and picked Omaha, Nebraska as a random market. Two-year-old Jetta TDIs are commanding a $3,000-$5,000 premium over equivalent gasoline models. Doesn't seem like they'd carry that premium if they were "harder to sell".

[Eye of the Tiger]

I did a cursory search on Autotrader and picked Omaha, Nebraska as a random market. Two-year-old Jetta TDIs are commanding a $3,000-$5,000 premium over equivalent gasoline models. Doesn't seem like they'd carry that premium if they were "harder to sell".

TDI + ECU tune + DPF delte = 300+ torks in a little car

[Laconian]

Barberpoled sedan!

[850CSi]

I did a cursory search on Autotrader and picked Omaha, Nebraska as a random market. Two-year-old Jetta TDIs are commanding a $3,000-$5,000 premium over equivalent gasoline models. Doesn't seem like they'd carry that premium if they were "harder to sell".

I will try to look into this as well. This is relevant to my interests.

[Madman]

I did a cursory search on Autotrader and picked Omaha, Nebraska as a random market. Two-year-old Jetta TDIs are commanding a $3,000-$5,000 premium over equivalent gasoline models. Doesn't seem like they'd carry that premium if they were "harder to sell".

I've noticed the same thing.  Diesels definitely command higher premiums over their gasoline equivalents.  Also, nearly every Jetta wagon I see has a TDI badge on the back.

[Mustangfan2003]

Well I'd love to get another Mercedes diesel, but gotta find a car to replace the Mustang first. 

[Rupert]

Miata.

[Mustangfan2003]

Miata.

Miata diesel, that's a great idea

[Rupert]

[Onslaught]

Miata diesel, that's a great idea

Diesel Miata

[Mustangfan2003]

Diesel Miata

That engine is too small, I'd up to an engine out of a 240D or some other 4 cylinder diesel.   

[TurboDan]

Diesels can be indicted and rejected on this and this alone. Diesel fuel itself is a disaster - smelly, slow to evaporate, and just LOOK at the greazy mess that is the average diesel fuel pump.

Having driven diesel cars when visiting other countries, I never noticed a smell (certainly not while driving) nor did I ever notice a smell coming through the vents from other cars while driving. Either I have a bad sense of smell, or you're still thinking about old Benzes from the 80s.

On another note - how about lease rates? Would the lease rate for a diesel Jetta be that much higher than a gasser? I guess the caveat would be a lack of incentives, maybe, so you'd pay "regular" price for the diesel.

[850CSi]

Having driven diesel cars when visiting other countries, I never noticed a smell (certainly not while driving) nor did I ever notice a smell coming through the vents from other cars while driving. Either I have a bad sense of smell, or you're still thinking about old Benzes from the 80s.

Have you never noticed that funny sulfury smell in any major European city?

(I don't really mind it that much, but it's definitely there)

[Mustangfan2003]

Having driven diesel cars when visiting other countries, I never noticed a smell (certainly not while driving) nor did I ever notice a smell coming through the vents from other cars while driving. Either I have a bad sense of smell, or you're still thinking about old Benzes from the 80s.

On another note - how about lease rates? Would the lease rate for a diesel Jetta be that much higher than a gasser? I guess the caveat would be a lack of incentives, maybe, so you'd pay "regular" price for the diesel.

I never noticed the smell much while driving my 300SD, but it was an old car so you had other smells to cover that up 

[Onslaught]

Having driven diesel cars when visiting other countries, I never noticed a smell (certainly not while driving) nor did I ever notice a smell coming through the vents from other cars while driving. Either I have a bad sense of smell, or you're still thinking about old Benzes from the 80s.

On another note - how about lease rates? Would the lease rate for a diesel Jetta be that much higher than a gasser? I guess the caveat would be a lack of incentives, maybe, so you'd pay "regular" price for the diesel.

Either your smell isn't as good or my smell is off the charts. And seeing that I work around some stink ass shit all day I'm not so sure my smell is that great anymore. I can smell a diesel in front of me on the highway 2-3 cars up when I have my vents on outside air.

[MX793]

We had our 1983 300SD Turbodiesel for 20 years and 250K miles without a spot of rust on it, and it was a Pennsylvania car its entire life. 

In contrast, our 2002 E320 had some rust spots after 6 years and our 2002 S500 is essentially held together by rust.  In 20 years, Mercedes went from totally awesome to totally sucking. 

I'd blame environmentally friendlier paint processes for the rust on the newer cars.

[cawimmer430]

Have you never noticed that funny sulfury smell in any major European city?

Nope.

[TurboDan]

Have you never noticed that funny sulfury smell in any major European city?

(I don't really mind it that much, but it's definitely there)

To be honest, I haven't. All large cities are sort of smelly, so maybe it just blends in for me?

Either your smell isn't as good or my smell is off the charts. And seeing that I work around some stink ass shit all day I'm not so sure my smell is that great anymore. I can smell a diesel in front of me on the highway 2-3 cars up when I have my vents on outside air.

Are you talking about the US or Europe? In the US, a diesel vehicle is almost always going to be a massive Ford F-350 or a dump truck, or something to that effect. I can definitely smell those diesel vehicles because they're huge. But I don't think I'd notice a smell coming from a little Jetta.

[mzziaz]

Have you never noticed that funny sulfury smell in any major European city?

(I don't really mind it that much, but it's definitely there)

Never have.

Iirc, euro diesel has less sulphur than the us kind

[850CSi]

Heh, that's interesting. Maybe I just have a strong sense of smell. I can definitely smell diesel exhaust, especially when I'm overseas. (And the smell coming from modern diesels in smaller cars is completely different than what you'd smell from, say, a semi). It's part of the experience for me.

[MX793]

Never have.

Iirc, euro diesel has less sulphur than the us kind

The US switched to the same ultra-low sulfur diesel that Europe uses a couple of years ago for highway vehicles (offroad and marine use the more sulfurous kind).

Diesel definitely has a different smell from gasoline and it lingers much longer.  I spilled one little drop of diesel on my winter gloves earlier this year and they really stunk of fuel.  I immediately washed them when I got home and you could still smell the lingering diesel smell over the smell of the residual detergent after the wash.

[GoCougs]

Have you never noticed that funny sulfury smell in any major European city?

(I don't really mind it that much, but it's definitely there)

Europe? Try pretty much any city in Japan. lol.

[850CSi]

Europe? Try pretty much any city in Japan. lol.

I've never been west of L.A. or east of Dubai, so you'll have to give me a pass on that one.

[GoCougs]

Either your smell isn't as good or my smell is off the charts. And seeing that I work around some stink ass shit all day I'm not so sure my smell is that great anymore. I can smell a diesel in front of me on the highway 2-3 cars up when I have my vents on outside air.

Same here. I often don't open my vents for that reason alone. And it's just not big rigs - pickups and passenger cars too.

[GoCougs]

I've never been west of L.A. or east of Dubai, so you'll have to give me a pass on that one.

It's terrible in Japan.

[Payman]

Raw diesel fuel does indeed stink, but I don't notice it from diesel vehicles on the road. Diesel engines absolutely last longer than their gas counterparts, and I know this from personal experience (nevermind all the semis on the road with 1,000,000+ miles).

[MX793]

Raw diesel fuel does indeed stink, but I don't notice it from diesel vehicles on the road. Diesel engines absolutely last longer than their gas counterparts, and I know this from personal experience (nevermind all the semis on the road with 1,000,000+ miles).

Every semi with 1,000,000+ miles has had the top end rebuilt at least once.  If gasoline engines were as overbuilt as OTH semi engines and got top end rebuilds periodically, they'd likely last just as long.