L.A. cops shoot two women delivering newspapers

[Madman]

 

Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ, this is an EPIC screw-up!

I'd LOVE to be the lawyer representing these two women in the inevitable lawsuit against the LAPD!

http://jalopnik.com/5982580/a-case-of-mistaken-truck-identity-caused-la-cops-to-shoot-two-innocent-women

[Morris Minor]

I never hear anything good about the LAPD, (nor about the way the City of LA is run for that matter).

I'm guessing there is a huge backstory to this whole Christopher Dorner thing.

[Soup DeVille]

Fuckers are getting just a little to itchy on their trigger fingers, methinks.


This isn't going to be the last of these episodes until that Dorner guy is caught.

[cawimmer430]

I never hear anything good about the LAPD.

Their cop cars have an awesome color scheme. 

[SVT666]

Holy shit.  They mistook a Toyota Tacoma for a Titan?  Are they blind?  And then to not even confirm who the person inside before shooting?  "Aaaahhhhh it's a blue truck,  light'em up!"

[Cookie Monster]

Holy shit.  They mistook a Toyota Tacoma for a Titan?  Are they blind?  And then to not even confirm who the person inside before shooting?  "Aaaahhhhh it's a blue truck,  light'em up!"

The sad part is that the guy's truck is grey.

[Soup DeVille]

The sad part is that the guy's truck is grey.

greyish blue, buish grey: but yeah: Nice way to overreact guys.

[giant_mtb]

What the ham.

[rohan]

greyish blue, buish grey: but yeah: Nice way to overreact guys.

Maybe maybe not.  You have to look at it in the context of what they saw at the time.  Dorner had already slain a daughter and her fiance in cold blood- killed another officer and shot 2 others after sending out his "manifesto" naming more to be executed to make things "right".  They're dealing a absolute violent nutjob who drives a blue truck that's not a huge truck.  It's 5am (which I assume is still dark in California)- the house you're guarding against a straight up crazy murdering guy who drives a blue truck and has said he'll kill anyone who gets in his way- a blue somewhat similarly sized foreign truck pulls up to the house then pulls away possibly because he saw you.... I'm not defending it but put yourself in their shoes and throw in the adrenaline and fear and see what conclusions you come up with.  I'm not sure how they actually ended up firing at it but I can certainly imagine a number of different scenarios.  Glad they at least didn't kill the women.

[bing_oh]

Maybe maybe not.  You have to look at it in the context of what they saw at the time.  Dorner had already slain a daughter and her fiance in cold blood- killed another officer and shot 2 others after sending out his "manifesto" naming more to be executed to make things "right".  They're dealing a absolute violent nutjob who drives a blue truck that's not a huge truck.  It's 5am (which I assume is still dark in California)- the house you're guarding against a straight up crazy murdering guy who drives a blue truck and has said he'll kill anyone who gets in his way- a blue somewhat similarly sized foreign truck pulls up to the house then pulls away possibly because he saw you.... I'm not defending it but put yourself in their shoes and throw in the adrenaline and fear and see what conclusions you come up with.  I'm not sure how they actually ended up firing at it but I can certainly imagine a number of different scenarios.  Glad they at least didn't kill the women.

Not to mention the truck was driving without headlights.

Like you said, not to justify it, but I can understand why the officers were so high strung.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You guys are going about this all wrong. We need to focus on what kind of guns the cops were using and ban them.

[Soup DeVille]

Maybe maybe not.  You have to look at it in the context of what they saw at the time.  Dorner had already slain a daughter and her fiance in cold blood- killed another officer and shot 2 others after sending out his "manifesto" naming more to be executed to make things "right".  They're dealing a absolute violent nutjob who drives a blue truck that's not a huge truck.  It's 5am (which I assume is still dark in California)- the house you're guarding against a straight up crazy murdering guy who drives a blue truck and has said he'll kill anyone who gets in his way- a blue somewhat similarly sized foreign truck pulls up to the house then pulls away possibly because he saw you.... I'm not defending it but put yourself in their shoes and throw in the adrenaline and fear and see what conclusions you come up with.  I'm not sure how they actually ended up firing at it but I can certainly imagine a number of different scenarios.  Glad they at least didn't kill the women.

Yep, under that scenario, its perfectly logical to mistake 2 women with newspapers for one large man with a gun.

I'm sorry, but you'd be the first one to tell me that officers are expected to perform under stressful situations and still make the right call. No matter what, it was the wrong reaction: you simply can't deny it.

It may not be criminal; it may even be understandable; but it was still the wrong call.

[bing_oh]

Yep, under that scenario, its perfectly logical to mistake 2 women with newspapers for one large man with a gun.

I'm sorry, but you'd be the first one to tell me that officers are expected to perform under stressful situations and still make the right call. No matter what, it was the wrong reaction: you simply can't deny it.

It may not be criminal; it may even be understandable; but it was still the wrong call.

I didn't see Randy try to say it was the right call. He was just putting it in perspective.

[cawimmer430]

You guys are going about this all wrong. We need to focus on what kind of guns the cops were using and ban them.

[Soup DeVille]

I didn't see Randy try to say it was the right call. He was just putting it in perspective.

And I'm saying using fear and adrenaline as an excuse is lame; understandable perhaps, but lame.

[bing_oh]

And I'm saying using fear and adrenaline as an excuse is lame; understandable perhaps, but lame.

Once again, it wasn't an excuse. It wasn't justification. It was perspective.

[Payman]

Lol at this comment...

Man, I would be sooooo pissed if this happened to me.

There is nothing worse than not getting my newspaper.

[VTEC_Inside]

I'm a little lost on why they are just opening fire on suspected trucks, or did I mis-read that?

[TurboDan]

How many blue Toyota Tacomas and Titans are there in the entire state of California? You can't just start shooting at anyone driving a specific vehicle. I wonder if there is more to this story.

[Soup DeVille]

How many blue Toyota Tacomas and Titans are there in the entire state of California? You can't just start shooting at anyone driving a specific vehicle. I wonder if there is more to this story.

They were delivering newspapers: so the truck rolled up slowly- probablt driving the wrong way, and an arm reaches outside the vehicle to throw the paper. What could this look like to the two officers who were stationed there to protect whomever's house it was?

Still, I'm not giving them an excuse; but try to imagine what the scene looked like.

But, since the LAPD isn't going to tell us who's been marked as a likely target here, and there's no way of knowing what house is still protected by bleary eyed young cops full of fear and adrenaline: There's no way in hell I'd be delivering any newspapers anywhere in that city for a long time.

[TurboDan]

They were delivering newspapers: so the truck rolled up slowly- probablt driving the wrong way, and an arm reaches outside the vehicle to throw the paper. What could this look like to the two officers who were stationed there to protect whomever's house it was?

Ahh, OK, that makes sense. The one article I read made it sound like they literally saw the truck and just unloaded.

[MX793]

Ahh, OK, that makes sense. The one article I read made it sound like they literally saw the truck and just unloaded.

Not in the case of the newspaper delivery-women, but they might have for the other truck they mistakenly fired on (but didn't hit anyone).

[Madman]

They're dealing a absolute violent nutjob who drives a blue truck that's not a huge truck.  It's 5am (which I assume is still dark in California)- the house you're guarding against a straight up crazy murdering guy who drives a blue truck and has said he'll kill anyone who gets in his way- a blue somewhat similarly sized foreign truck pulls up to the house.........

But Mr. Nutjob's truck is grey, not blue.  Also, a Nissan Titan is a HUGE truck.  We're talking Ford F-Series huge.  It's a helluva lot bigger than the little Toyota Tacoma the two women were driving.

So the cops shoot up a truck that's the wrong make, wrong model, wrong size and wrong colour with the wrong plate number being driven by two people not fitting the description of the suspect?  Way to go, guys!  Great observational skills!

Since when did "Shoot first and ask questions later" become the motto of the LAPD?  "Hey look, it's a truck!  OPEN FIRE!!!"   

[Soup DeVille]

LA times has a pic of the truck. No official count,but it looks like Swiss cheese, and the cops were shooting at the back of the truck: it wasn't heading towards them.

[rohan]

Yep, under that scenario, its perfectly logical to mistake 2 women with newspapers for one large man with a gun.

I'm sorry, but you'd be the first one to tell me that officers are expected to perform under stressful situations and still make the right call. No matter what, it was the wrong reaction: you simply can't deny it.

It may not be criminal; it may even be understandable; but it was still the wrong call.

It's dark and the officers had word a vehicle like Dorner's was traveling in the direction of the home they were guarding.   I also never said I agreed with it- condoned it- indicated it was a good shoot or anything even close.  You're re-writing what I said and I only pointed out that I could see how it could have happened.  Saying I thought it was a good shoot- or any variant of that- is making a huge leap.

[rohan]

LA times has a pic of the truck. No official count,but it looks like Swiss cheese, and the cops were shooting at the back of the truck: it wasn't heading towards them.

You need to understand the Force Continuum to understand how they might have thought they could shoot it.  You weren't there- I wasn't there- none of us know what happened.  For all we know the women didn't stop or even tried to evade a traffic stop- we just don't know.  It's Travon all over again: we just don't know what happened.  And you don't know me well enough to say I would say this or that about what officers would do.  In this case I was just saying I could see how it could happen- not that it was a clean shoot.   

[rohan]

 

But Mr. Nutjob's truck is grey, not blue.  Also, a Nissan Titan is a HUGE truck.  We're talking Ford F-Series huge.  It's a helluva lot bigger than the little Toyota Tacoma the two women were driving.

So the cops shoot up a truck that's the wrong make, wrong model, wrong size and wrong colour with the wrong plate number being driven by two people not fitting the description of the suspect?  Way to go, guys!  Great observational skills!

Since when did "Shoot first and ask questions later" become the motto of the LAPD?  "Hey look, it's a truck!  OPEN FIRE!!!"   

Uh- not a "HUGE" truck at all. And it was dark and the truck didn't have lights on.   Beyond that- were you there?  Isn't it even possible to imagine that he might have switched vehicles?  I know no matter what anyone says you'll continue to rant and rave like the lunatic you are - but you're in possession of no first hand knowledge of what actually happened just like people were when the Travon thing went down.  Again I'm not saying it's going to be a good shoot- just that away from your house it's probably not all cut and dried like you are trying to make it out.

[Soup DeVille]

You need to understand the Force Continuum to understand how they might have thought they could shoot it.  You weren't there- I wasn't there- none of us know what happened.  For all we know the women didn't stop or even tried to evade a traffic stop- we just don't know.  It's Travon all over again: we just don't know what happened.  And you don't know me well enough to say I would say this or that about what officers would do.  In this case I was just saying I could see how it could happen- not that it was a clean shoot.   

Maybe, maybe not, is exactly what you said. I'm pointing out that its far more likely this is a case of "maybe not."

And yes, its possible he switched vehicles: its not possible he turned into two women (a mother and a daughter). If you can't even make that basic level of identification, well...

I don't care how scared they might have been.

[Soup DeVille]

You need to understand the Force Continuum to understand how they might have thought they could shoot it.  You weren't there- I wasn't there- none of us know what happened.  For all we know the women didn't stop or even tried to evade a traffic stop- we just don't know.  It's Travon all over again: we just don't know what happened.  And you don't know me well enough to say I would say this or that about what officers would do.  In this case I was just saying I could see how it could happen- not that it was a clean shoot.   

Yeah, I know what the force continuum is: so tell me: what level of force is required for a vehicle which is driving slowly away from you? I understand you want to know all the facts before making a judgement: but I seriously doubt any mitigating facts are going to come up that are enough to call this a good decision.

[Rupert]

Seems to me that I've seen rohan jump to all kinds of conclusions around here before. I wonder what changed...

Oh, right, you've assaulted the Mighty Brotherhood of All Cops Are Perfect.