Tesla pics

[Soup DeVille]

If he did leave because of me it just speaks further to the irrationality surrounding Tesla (a wave that will soon ebb IMO).

Now tats grasping at straws.

[GoCougs]

Oops.

Much as Telsaists carry on, Fordists did a pretty good job of masking Ford's $6B gubment loan.

[GoCougs]

Now tats grasping at straws.

Not at all. He got plain goofy with his last couple of posts. I wasn't criticizing him or the car. I made plain and factual statements about Tesla's (very precarious) financial position yet he was offended at each and every one.

TL;DR - once the early adopters like red_shift fade Telsa is in for a world of hurt.

[SVT666]

I disagree.  I think Tesla is in it for the long haul.  If they can sell enough Model S's, then maybe they can put the powertrain in less expensive cars.  More gas for us!

[Morris Minor]

I don't think the government should lend money to anybody, be it students or car companies. But occasionally the government will strike lucky.

I'm reserving judgement on Tesla. It looks promising; the cars are sexy & usable, but we need to go two or three years beyond the current euphoria to see where things really are.

[SJ_GTI]

I don't think the government should lend money to anybody, be it students or car companies. But occasionally the government will strike lucky.

I'm reserving judgement on Tesla. It looks promising; the cars are sexy & usable, but we need to go two or three years beyond the current euphoria to see where things really are.

I actually think its a good thing for the US to support this type of development. While I understand the idealistic reasons that people oppose it, the practical matter is that other countries are supporting their emerging industries.

Not every new business will work out, but the only way to guarantee failure is to not even try IMHO. I view this type of thing like R&D. Most of it won't come to anything, but every once in a while a something HUGE will happen that will make the whole thing worth it (and FWIW yes, basic R&D funding is another thing I am glad the US spends a lot of money on).

JMHO of course.

[Morris Minor]

The Other Government Motors
Tesla by the numbers: How taxpayers made an electric car company.
The list of the Obama Administration's industrial policy failures is long, from Solyndra to Fisker Automotive. But now we are hearing that one success redeems them all: Tesla Motors . Tesla's share price has soared this year on rave reviews for its electric car, growing sales and its first quarterly profit.

Rarely noted is how much this profit is a function of government subsidy and coercion. So let's take apart Tesla by the numbers, if only to give our reader-taxpayers a better sense of what they've paid to make Tesla's owners rich.

The decade-old Tesla debuted its first product, the Roadster, in 2006. With a base price of $109,000, it was discontinued before it hit 2,500 sales. Tesla introduced its Model S a year ago and had sold an estimated 9,650 at a bargain $70,000 through April. By contrast, Ford sold 168,843 F-series pickup trucks in the first quarter alone.

Much more... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324659404578499460139237952.html

[Soup DeVille]

Not at all. He got plain goofy with his last couple of posts. I wasn't criticizing him or the car. I made plain and factual statements about Tesla's (very precarious) financial position yet he was offended at each and every one.

TL;DR - once the early adopters like red_shift fade Telsa is in for a world of hurt.

You're taking one persons responses and producing a stereotype of their entire customer base.yes, it makes you look just a little silly.

[Morris Minor]

You're taking one persons responses and producing a stereotype of their entire customer base.yes, it makes you look just a little silly.

An appropriate stereotype for an owner might be a country club member whose Model S is substantially paid for by the caddy.

As mentioned before: it's the perverse incentives of the game that's messed up, not the players of the game.

[LonghornTX]

I actually think its a good thing for the US to support this type of development. While I understand the idealistic reasons that people oppose it, the practical matter is that other countries are supporting their emerging industries.

Not every new business will work out, but the only way to guarantee failure is to not even try IMHO. I view this type of thing like R&D. Most of it won't come to anything, but every once in a while a something HUGE will happen that will make the whole thing worth it (and FWIW yes, basic R&D funding is another thing I am glad the US spends a lot of money on).

JMHO of course.

I tend to agree, especially with the first sentence.

[LonghornTX]

They borrowed money from China to pay off the DOE.

No, they borrowed money from institutional investors, and even Elon himself (he purchased some of the stock that they issued).

[LonghornTX]

PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors announced that it has paid off the entire loan awarded to the company by the Department of Energy in 2010. In addition to payments made in 2012 and Q1 2013, today's wire of almost half a billion dollars ($451.8M) repays the full loan facility with interest. Following this payment, Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government.

From that specific loan program, but Chrysler repaid its loan in full as well.

[ChrisV]

I don't think the government should lend money to anybody, be it students or car companies. But occasionally the government will strike lucky.

That's what governments have been doing as long as there have been governments.  Remember a certain spanish expedition to the new world?

Governments loan money to get an expected return (not necessarily moneatery returns, either). They also GRANT money (Darpa is a prim example of that), as well as pcik and choose amongst contractors for services, and have regulations on where and how they need to "invest" in depressed areas and minority owned businesses. While not loans, they ARE promoting certain types of businesses over others. THis is simply what governments DO.

So loaning money to business to achieve a desired result is normal, and proper use of funds. And it's a bonus when that busines succeeds, as Tesla has.

[MrH]

That's what governments have been doing as long as there have been governments.  Remember a certain spanish expedition to the new world?

Governments loan money to get an expected return (not necessarily moneatery returns, either). They also GRANT money (Darpa is a prim example of that), as well as pcik and choose amongst contractors for services, and have regulations on where and how they need to "invest" in depressed areas and minority owned businesses. While not loans, they ARE promoting certain types of businesses over others. THis is simply what governments DO.

So loaning money to business to achieve a desired result is normal, and proper use of funds. And it's a bonus when that busines succeeds, as Tesla has.

You're really going to compare Tesla to investing in the Spanish expedition?  Holy :facepalm Batman!

[ChrisV]

You're really going to compare Tesla to investing in the Spanish expedition?  Holy :facepalm Batman!

Government loans. Sorry the concept is too big for you to grasp. Columbus wanted to seek out new trade routes for private gain. The government loaned him money to get an expected return out of it. Different scale, granted, same concept. Big loans, samll loans, government loaning to private industry is an old, old concept, especially when the government wants to promote a certain outcome it sees as beneficial.

[GoCougs]

That's what governments have been doing as long as there have been governments.  Remember a certain spanish expedition to the new world?

Governments loan money to get an expected return (not necessarily moneatery returns, either). They also GRANT money (Darpa is a prim example of that), as well as pcik and choose amongst contractors for services, and have regulations on where and how they need to "invest" in depressed areas and minority owned businesses. While not loans, they ARE promoting certain types of businesses over others. THis is simply what governments DO.

So loaning money to business to achieve a desired result is normal, and proper use of funds. And it's a bonus when that busines succeeds, as Tesla has.

Ask indigenous peoples if Columbus's trip was a good idea; also, 15th century monarchs were murderous thieves.

Thing is government is irrational in its lending - if it was a rational endeavor private sector entities would likely buck up and loan the money. When they don't buck up irrational endeavors don't get funded and we're all better off for it.

It's a bit generous to call Tesla successful after one quarter of pseudo profitability (i.e., ONLY if but for selling carbon credits) after 10 years of running in the red.

[Lebowski]

Government loans. Sorry the concept is too big for you to grasp. Columbus wanted to seek out new trade routes for private gain. The government loaned him money to get an expected return out of it. Different scale, granted, same concept. Big loans, samll loans, government loaning to private industry is an old, old concept, especially when the government wants to promote a certain outcome it sees as beneficial.

Dude are you seriously pointing to a monarchy as an example of how govt should be done?

Yeah, Gov't financing enterprise isn't new ... That doesn't make it a good idea.

[GoCougs]

I rode in one earlier this week:

1.) 17" center touchscreen looked dull compared to an iDevice - is it even TFT?

2.) The steering wheel column looked like it was from a kit car (just a plain rectangular box).

3.) Center console area was sparse.

4.) The doors felt flimsy, and not only because the glass in frameless.

5.) Ride was much quieter and smoother than expected; shocking really.

6.) Leather was super soft.

7.) Nice acceleration of course.

8.) Dash was good.

9.) The auto extend door handles seemed like kinda like they were trying too hard.

10.) Touchscreen was too busy; for example sunroof function had a slider that showed % open - TMI.

[Catman]

The door handles are a common complaint.  Over designed.  The center console has been bitched about too.  Looks like just a big bin.  Saw a lot of these in CA last week.  Great looking car.  The storage room is unreal.

[GoCougs]

It is a great looking car, esp. with the 21" wheels. Didn't get a feel for space in the back but it looked plenty. The only issue that keeps me thinking is the doors - just didn't feel right. I didn't have a lot of time to investigate as the owner was with me the entire time and wouldn't let up about "American manufacturing."

[Raza]

Auto-extend door handles sound like the seatbelt extenders from older CLs.  That is, awesome. 

[Morris Minor]

Static door handles are a drudgery on a par with taking your clothes to the river & beating them clean on rocks.

[CALL_911]

Auto-extend door handles sound like the seatbelt extenders from older CLs.  That is, awesome.

E92/3 have those.