Thoughts after my first track day

[Cookie Monster]

I went to my first track day two days ago, on Tuesday, at Thunderhill Raceway. For those that don't know, it's a decently long, tight and twisty course with 15 corners. Compared to Laguna Seca, I've been told that Thunderhill is far better for smaller, slower cars due to the tighter corners.

When it came time to sign up for the event, I paid only $53 to register. Considering I pay $40 for autocross, I wasn't sure what to expect from a ~$50 trackday. We were promised 7 15 minute sessions, and 4 different classes to sign up for: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, and Drift, with each class going out every 15 minutes. The beginner group had two sessions that consisted of a lead-and-follow setup where drivers would follow one advanced driver to be able to learn the track and the line, and the remaining 5 sessions were all on our own. I thought this was great as I had no clue what to expect, and the slow speeds of the lead-and-follow sessions really helped me feel comfortable driving on my own. Overall, I was very impressed by how punctual and efficient the event was set up, as we left at the scheduled time every time on the dot. The 45 minutes we had between the end of one run and the beginning of another was great for having the car cool down, as on stock brakes and not so great tires I was overheating the car quickly.

Finally, on to the driving part. I had always known that track driving was very technical, but I had not expected it to be so crazy. I had no clue how to get the fastest times or drive the fastest lines (still don't) but I got a good look into how to be faster on a track in general. During my fourth session I had another miata.net member ride with me, and he pointed out that I was overdriving the car to a great extent, and that by slowing down and making a bigger effort to hit the apexes of each turn, I could prolong the use of my tires, save my brakes, and end up being much faster around the course. I ended up getting yet another miata.net member to ride with me, and this person was extremely technical. He taught me about using the entire width of the course and not fighting the car; rather, I should just let it take its own course. By the end of the day I could feel that I was far faster, no doubt due to having so much track time. In comparison, I never felt as though I learned much from auto-x days, as you'd only get 4-5 runs that were 40-50 seconds long each. The ability to reflect on your peformance is much harder when you don't get many runs to improve upon.

The thing that surprised me the most by far was how much time I had to think on the track. While autocrossing, everything always seemed to be a blur, and I'd only take note of certain brake and turn in points and just kind of hope for the best. On the track, I actually had time to think and plan out when to turn, and how hard to get into the throttle or brakes. In autocross, I always felt that due to the low speeds and my low powered car, I could just stomp on the gas or throttle and get my times down. I would also brake into the corners as the lower speeds meant the car wouldn't get upset as quickly. I would actually try to upset the car slightly to get it to rotate through the turn. However, on the track, doing that resulted in the car being extremely unstable since the speeds were far higher. I learned to finish all the braking before turning and to turn in smoother and earlier to let the car kind of "drift" (but not really) through the corner naturally. It is a completely different driving style that I was not accustomed to at all.

I ended up spinning out 4 times, just due to driving the car hard. Once was because I just got scared and wasn't thinking and spun out on an off camber, downhill turn where apparently people have flipped before. I got lucky that I drove away from that unscathed. Other than that, spinning out really wasn't bad at all. I actually ended up getting a ride first thing in the morning with an advanced driver who spun out in an AE86. That experience made me realize that spinning out wasn't scary at all and I ended up pushing my car harder than most others in the beginner group.

Here is a video of the spin out in the AE86. I am in the first clip:

Spins


Anyways, sorry for all the rambling. I had a blast. This was far better than anything else I've ever done and the best $50 I've ever spent. I can safely say auto-x is kind of ruined for me. Oh, and I got 13 mpg on the track.

EDIT:

Here's a video of me doing a lap:


Thunderhill

[CALL_911]

That looks like a blast. I'd love to do that sometime soon.

The music in that video was terrific.

[hotrodalex]

$50 for that? Deal of the century.

[Cookie Monster]

$50 for that? Deal of the century.

Yup. It was $50 for Miatas and $125 for other cars (still a great deal). I think another organization does $130 for a track day and it's still not a bad deal. Laguna Seca charges $250 per day.

[2o6]

If I had another set of tires, I'd totally do that.

[Cookie Monster]

If I had another set of tires, I'd totally do that.

To be honest, I didn't have great tires but I still had lots of fun and learned a lot. It's not a race and you don't get timed so if you're out there to learn you'd be fine on pretty much anything, unless they're bald.

[Speed_Racer]

That looks awesome for the cost! Any track time makes you a better driver on the streets.

[MX793]

That's extremely inexpensive for a track day.  The only road course even near me is Watkins Glen.  The cheapest opportunity to drive aggressively on that track is $280 for a 2-day instructional performance driving school (plus hotel costs, etc...).

[Cookie Monster]

Yup, as soon as I saw it was $50 I jumped on it without knowing when or where it was.

It was $50 for the first 10 Miatas that signed up.

We were all joking that we didn't know what the heck was going through the organizers heads when they priced it that low. I doubt they made any money off of us at all.

[MrH]

$50 for that? Deal of the century.

Yeah, that's a TON of track time for a steal.  Honestly, I'm expecting to pay $250-$300 for a weekend of probably a similar amount of time at Mid Ohio this summer.

The music in that video was terrific.

  Had me laughing too.  I have to ask, why did the AE86 guy loose the bedazzle dildo shifter between runs?



Also, you've got giant balls to spin out 4 times in your daily driver.  Sounds like you were really going for it.  Either that, or you have no idea what you're doing

My only track time is at the Ring, but hopefully this summer that will change.  I can't imagine I'll be spinning out four times like you though, especially at MidOhio where that means crashing into a wall.

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, that's a TON of track time for a steal.  Honestly, I'm expecting to pay $250-$300 for a weekend of probably a similar amount of time at Mid Ohio this summer.

  Had me laughing too.  I have to ask, why did the AE86 guy loose the bedazzle dildo shifter between runs?



Also, you've got giant balls to spin out 4 times in your daily driver.  Sounds like you were really going for it.  Either that, or you have no idea what you're doing

My only track time is at the Ring, but hopefully this summer that will change.  I can't imagine I'll be spinning out four times like you though, especially at MidOhio where that means crashing into a wall.

Apparently he broke the dildo shifter somehow halfway through the day.

And yeah I was pushing real hard. I felt safe doing it though since there was ample runoff area around most turns. I was passing everyone in my group other than another NC on RS3's and a GT-R (for obvious reasons ). I probably had the worst tires there but was passing people with faster cars with better tires. The problem is, the grip is predictable with my tires till it gets really hot. Then it'll snap on you very fast. In the end I wanted to get the most out of my day and that included some spins. I never felt scared in any of the spins except for the one where I could've rolled the car.

[MrH]

Apparently he broke the dildo shifter somehow halfway through the day.

And yeah I was pushing real hard. I felt safe doing it though since there was ample runoff area around most turns. I was passing everyone in my group other than another NC on RS3's and a GT-R (for obvious reasons ). I probably had the worst tires there but was passing people with faster cars with better tires. The problem is, the grip is predictable with my tires till it gets really hot. Then it'll snap on you very fast. In the end I wanted to get the most out of my day and that included some spins. I never felt scared in any of the spins except for the one where I could've rolled the car.

Yeah, that looks like a pretty good track for spinning out if you're going to do it (tons of flat run off all over the place).  Miatas have such a short wheel base too, when they snap, it all happens pretty quick.

The Ring is not a track to be spinning off the road, so the sections that were really sketchy I wasn't pushing at the limit.  Tons of corners I was sliding through, but with the cars I was driving (Suzuki Swift Sport, and a VW Scirocco) were more likely to understeer than anything.  Pretty balanced for FWD cars though.  I only got oversteer if I purposely lifted or trailbraked into a few corners.  A few four wheels drifts too.  I had the same experience at the Ring though:  Most people on the track were giant pussies, and were easily passed   We kept a kill list throughout the day.  My friend with the most track experience only got passed by an E92 M3 (driven by a complete boss who was the fastest there that day for sure), and a handful of GT3s.  He ate up Lambos and Ferraris all day.

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, that looks like a pretty good track for spinning out if you're going to do it (tons of flat run off all over the place).  Miatas have such a short wheel base too, when they snap, it all happens pretty quick.

The Ring is not a track to be spinning off the road, so the sections that were really sketchy I wasn't pushing at the limit.  Tons of corners I was sliding through, but with the cars I was driving (Suzuki Swift Sport, and a VW Scirocco) were more likely to understeer than anything.  Pretty balanced for FWD cars though.  I only got oversteer if I purposely lifted or trailbraked into a few corners.  A few four wheels drifts too.  I had the same experience at the Ring though:  Most people on the track were giant pussies, and were easily passed   We kept a kill list throughout the day.  My friend with the most track experience only got passed by an E92 M3 (driven by a complete boss who was the fastest there that day for sure), and a handful of GT3s.  He ate up Lambos and Ferraris all day.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't push it in the 'Ring. Way too scared for that. My interior also got covered in dirt from spinning out.


BTW, how did passing on the 'Ring work? We had point-by passing where the person in front would have to point in the direction they wanted to be overtaken in. The problem is, some people were assholes and would drive slowly but not let you pass, either. We were only allowed to pass on straights. Intermediate and advanced sessions allowed drivers to pass wherever they wanted.

[Cookie Monster]

Oh, I completely forgot to add:

Shifting was a whole new experience. In auto-x, it was always "set it and forget it". I'd just roll around in second gear and not worry about it. On the track we actually had to shift and that was a new experience. I only ever had to go between third and fourth, and I found I was able to heel-toe shift somewhat smoothly. It's far easier to do it when you're actually hard on the brake pedal. I'm not able to do it on the streets easily due to not hitting the brakes hard enough, but I found it was immensely helpful on the track to do it. It doesn't sound like much, but the whole shifting thing added a whole new dimension to track driving as shifting points also made a difference.

On one of the laps, I was an idiot and shifted while going flat out around a high speed corner and upset the balance of the car. That was scary.

[MrH]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't push it in the 'Ring. Way too scared for that. My interior also got covered in dirt from spinning out.


BTW, how did passing on the 'Ring work? We had point-by passing where the person in front would have to point in the direction they wanted to be overtaken in. The problem is, some people were assholes and would drive slowly but not let you pass, either. We were only allowed to pass on straights. Intermediate and advanced sessions allowed drivers to pass wherever they wanted.

Passing happens on the left, ALWAYS.  You have to constantly check your mirrors to see if anyone was coming up.  Tough to do during difficult transitions when you're trying to focus on braking points and hitting apexes.  The way I did it everytime:  Passenger was responsible for looking out for people coming up on you and telling you.  When someone is clearly going faster, you get right, and put on your left turn signal to tell them you know they're there, and they're free to pass.  I felt we did a pretty good job of letting people over, and most guys are appreciate and give you a wave or something as they come around.

I had some douche bag in a Noble M12 from the UK who did NOT want to get passed by a Scirocco.  He kept trying to fight me off and would take me in the straights, but would hold up traffic in the corners.  It's really frowned upon to try and compete like that and eventually he let me and a few others go around him.  You're allowed to pass mid corner, but really only should if they recognize you with a turn signal.

Scariest moment I had though:  Old BMW (I forget what it was.  I want to say an old M6) that was totally track prepped came up on me without warning (didn't see him in my rearview mirror at all, and there was a bunch of consecutive turns, so you couldn't see too far back).  He tried to pass on my outside during a downhill right hand turn.  I was going attacking it as fast as I could, had a bit of a four wheel slide going as he went around.  Thought for sure I was going to clip him as I slide to the outside.

Outside that incident though, most are pretty safe with overtaking.  When I went in the Swift, it was the first weekend and really rainy so it was pretty empty.  Mostly just pros and really slow daily drivers out there.  Oh, and motorcycles are all assholes out there

[Speed_Racer]

Rags, what did you do when you started to oversteer? Did you lift off, keep it planted, or just try to ride it out?

[Cookie Monster]

Rags, what did you do when you started to oversteer? Did you lift off, keep it planted, or just try to ride it out?

Well, as MrH said, the small wheelbase kind of made it hard to save. It would snap instantly. I'd just hit the brakes after losing it to not slide too far off the track as the grass was tall and I didn't know if I could get out of it.

I did try planting my foot while sliding once and just ended up in a big smoky burnout. I caught some small slides/oversteer by just countersteering and lifting slightly off the throttle to help the tires regain traction while still keeping the weight over the rear wheels. Lifting completely or hitting the brakes would have just caused more spins.

[MrH]

well, that's why you spun out 4 times.  Lifting off the throttle is the exact opposite of what you want to do.  Lift off the throttle = car pitches forward = less weight over the rears = even less traction = more rotation.  You probably could have saved some of those.  Don't plant the throttle either.  It's all about feathering it to stay balanced and keep the weight shifted rearward.  Doing this without a limited slip diff is tough though.  You're just going to burn the inside tire every time.

[Cookie Monster]

well, that's why you spun out 4 times.  Lifting off the throttle is the exact opposite of what you want to do.  Lift off the throttle = car pitches forward = less weight over the rears = even less traction = more rotation.  You probably could have saved some of those.  Don't plant the throttle either.  It's all about feathering it to stay balanced and keep the weight shifted rearward.  Doing this without a limited slip diff is tough though.  You're just going to burn the inside tire every time.

That's what I meant, slight lift off/feathering to keep the weight rearward, but you don't want to stay on it too hard or else the tires will never regain traction. I had a lot of oversteer that I was able to save with some feathering/slight lift off. Those 4 were pretty much impossible to save just due to the amount of speed I was carrying into or out of the turn.

I was impressed with the car though. I got no understeer at all, whether I was on or off the power, no matter how fast I went into a corner. I should try loosening the rear sway to see if I can get rid of the oversteer, though.

[MrH]

If anything, you should feather on more power.  At least in my experience, when you start to feather off, the weight transfer, combined with a more abrupt grabbing of the rear tires just makes it harder to regain control.  Feather the throttle on to balance the rear, point where you want to go, and ride out the slide.

We're probably talking about the same thing, just hard to describe through a forum

[Cookie Monster]

If anything, you should feather on more power.  At least in my experience, when you start to feather off, the weight transfer, combined with a more abrupt grabbing of the rear tires just makes it harder to regain control.  Feather the throttle on to balance the rear, point where you want to go, and ride out the slide.

We're probably talking about the same thing, just hard to describe through a forum

Eh, probably.

I think that I could've saved two of them. The first one and last one. The first one, though, I got it to snap back from one direction to the other by countersteering and feathering the throttle, but thought I was going to go into the cars behind me, so I slammed the brakes to just spin out into the grass. I wasn't sure where they were but I didn't want to take any chances.

The last time I was just goofing around and floored it.

[Secret Chimp]

I cracked up within 15 seconds of that video.

Also since when do you have a sparkly blue dildo as a shift knob?

[Cookie Monster]

I cracked up within 15 seconds of that video.

Also since when do you have a sparkly blue dildo as a shift knob?

Way to read the (long) OP.

It's not my car. I'm the passenger in the first clip.

[MrH]

I cracked up within 15 seconds of that video.

Also since when do you have a sparkly blue dildo as a shift knob?

That's the AE86 guy, not Rags.

[Secret Chimp]

Oh I'm retarded.

I also didn't notice that.

[Laconian]

Guess you aren't an egg student after all.

[cawimmer430]

I want to see your skillz behind the wheel of a 1970s minivan on the track. 

[68_427]

That's extremely inexpensive for a track day.  The only road course even near me is Watkins Glen.  The cheapest opportunity to drive aggressively on that track is $280 for a 2-day instructional performance driving school (plus hotel costs, etc...).

It sucks.  There are a couple places in Ontario to go,like maybe Cobalagie or however it's spelled but not much else I can think of.

[Cookie Monster]

I want to see your skillz behind the wheel of a 1970s minivan on the track. 

70's minivan is an oxymoron, wimmer.

[SVT666]

It sucks.  There are a couple places in Ontario to go,like maybe Cobalagie or however it's spelled but not much else I can think of.

There are very few tracks in Canada.  The closest one to me is about 4.5 hours away.