Apparently Barney Fife lives in my neighborhood...

[MrH]

Well, this is bizarre.

Late last night, I catch word a cop stopped by the house and asked my roommate where I was.  Asked me what time I usually leave for work and come home, whether he was my brother.  Kind of strange.

I figured I'd call them this afternoon and see what's going on.  Before getting in the shower, there's a knock at the door.  The cop asks what happened yesterday morning.  I had no idea what he was talking about.  Apparently it was at the corner down the street from me.

Here's the situation:

4 way intersection, I'm turning right.  A bus is to my right, stopped at the intersection.  I looked up, the bus hadn't put on the flashing stop sign or lights yet.  I made eye contact with bus driver, there were no students on my corner, just a couple on the other side of the road where the bus was stopped.  They hadn't started loading the bus, so I slowly turned.  I figured the eye contact and delay in the bus driver putting his lights on was a sign he was letting me through before stopping traffic.

After I passed, the driver put the stop sign extended out, and lights flashing, and then loaded the bus.

Well, turns out the cop lives on that exact road (might actually be right on the corner where this happened).  He thinks he's defending his neighborhood.  Nothing I did was remotely dangerous, and I felt the communication for me to go with the bus driver was pretty clear.  I guess the bus driver had another plans and reported me.  Upwards of 2 points on the license and $500 fine

A few questions:

1.  The bus driver essentially wrote me a traffic citation.  Seems crazy a cop can show up at my house a day after the incident, take the bus driver's word, then issue me a citation.  It would have been one thing if I blatantly flew past a bus driver.  I turned right prior to his stop signs being activated.

2.  Is there a conflict of interest, since this happened in front of the officer's house?  I'm guessing this guy feels like he's protecting his neighborhood from the young guy in the sports car down the street   Guy was a total d-bag to say the least.

Probably didn't help I've got a Don't Tread on Me flag waving on my flag pole, and there's a levy vote next week for $5 million in funding.  If it doesn't pass, over half will get laid off.  I say good riddance

[CJ]

I feel like this is all sorts of illegal.

[bing_oh]

So, the officer got a complaint from the bus driver and investigated it, and he's a "Barney Fife d-bag?" Did I miss something?

As for the violation in question, it's common practice to write a citation on a vehicle running a stopped school bus if the bus driver fills out a statement identifying the vehicle and the driver. Where the officer lives means absolutely nothing. There's no "conflict of interest" because he happens to live in the neighborhood. He's not investigating his own complaint where he was a victim.

[Raza]

Fight it.  You did nothing wrong, and it's the bus driver's word against yours.  I don't see any weight to the "conflict of interest" argument, but the rest of your story sounds like you're in the right.

[MrH]

So, the officer got a complaint from the bus driver and investigated it, and he's a "Barney Fife d-bag?" Did I miss something?

As for the violation in question, it's common practice to write a citation on a vehicle running a stopped school bus if the bus driver fills out a statement identifying the vehicle and the driver. Where the officer lives means absolutely nothing. There's no "conflict of interest" because he happens to live in the neighborhood. He's not investigating his own complaint where he was a victim.

He's a d-bag because of the way he acted.  He was quite the smug asshole about it.  His investigation encompassed getting the complaint from the driver, hearing two words out of me before issuing the citation.  He was going to issue it regardless, before he even showed up at the house and heard anything from me.

[Raza]

He's a d-bag because of the way he acted.  He was quite the smug asshole about it.  His investigation encompassed getting the complaint from the driver, hearing two words out of me before issuing the citation.  He was going to issue it regardless, before he even showed up at the house and heard anything from me.

You never have to apologize for calling a cop a douchebag.  Never. 

[J86]

Fight it.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.75

[MaxPower]

This is how most of criminal law works...people see things, write statements, and cops do the follow up and summons.  Cops don't have to be the witness and there are plenty of crimes that occur that cops don't see.  Just because you're not happy about it that doesn't mean you should insult the cop. 

The bus driver saw what he thought was a violation and reported it.  You think differently.  This is why we have trials.

[GoCougs]

This is how most of criminal law works...people see things, write statements, and cops do the follow up and summons.  Cops don't have to be the witness and there are plenty of crimes that occur that cops don't see.  Just because you're not happy about it that doesn't mean you should insult the cop. 

The bus driver saw what he thought was a violation and reported it.  You think differently.  This is why we have trials.

It's implied this is traffic infraction not a criminal one. At least in my state, LE cannot write a traffic infraction based on civilian account. The witness has to be deputized. A few years back there was a push to deputize school bus drivers so they could be "cops." I don't know if it passed (hopefully not).

[GoCougs]

He's a d-bag because of the way he acted.  He was quite the smug asshole about it.  His investigation encompassed getting the complaint from the driver, hearing two words out of me before issuing the citation.  He was going to issue it regardless, before he even showed up at the house and heard anything from me.

You shouldn't have tried to play into the "investigation" - next time just tell 'em they're on their own.

And yes, it is problematic that he as a neighbor "investigated." It shows a tendency toward these-are-my-streets thuggery and a lack of self awareness of the potential issues of ticketing a neighbor.

Oh, get a traffic attorney and win.

[dazzleman]

I think you should contest the summons.  If the lights weren't flashing, you did nothing wrong.  If the summons was based on the complaint by the bus driver, then he should have to be in court to testify to what happened, and you should be able to cross examine him.  Write down everything you remember; this will give you the advantage since he is unlikely to remember as well as you do, and that will trip him up in giving testimony.

[bing_oh]

It's implied this is traffic infraction not a criminal one. At least in my state, LE cannot write a traffic infraction based on civilian account. The witness has to be deputized. A few years back there was a push to deputize school bus drivers so they could be "cops." I don't know if it passed (hopefully not).

In Ohio, this would be one of the few traffic infractions for which we can and do issue citations based upon a statement by a witness. The information required from the bus driver is very specific for us to do this, and drivers are trained in what to watch for.

[bing_oh]

He's a d-bag because of the way he acted.  He was quite the smug asshole about it.  His investigation encompassed getting the complaint from the driver, hearing two words out of me before issuing the citation.  He was going to issue it regardless, before he even showed up at the house and heard anything from me.

Yep, he probably was. Most departments have a zero tolerance policy in these cases...if the bus driver gives a statement with the necessary information then, unless there's some major evidence to the contrary, the citation is issued. You saying "I didn't do it" isn't evidence to the contrary. That you're getting honked off at the officer is interesting, considering it's the bus driver who is the source of the complaint. The officer is nothing but a legal intermediary.

And, considering your account of what happened with the officer, I wonder how your attitude was...

[Rupert]

If you aren't exaggerating, I'd go the lawyer route.

[Soup DeVille]

You don't need a lawyer. Take it to court: unless the bus driver shows up, the case will be thrown out. As the cop did not witness the incident, he cannot testify as to what happened.

If the bus driver does show up, at least your chances against a bus driver's testimony are a lot better.

[GoCougs]

You don't need a lawyer. Take it to court: unless the bus driver shows up, the case will be thrown out. As the cop did not witness the incident, he cannot testify as to what happened.

If the bus driver does show up, at least your chances against a bus driver's testimony are a lot better.

That's not necessarily true; or at least in my state. A testimony by affidavit can be accepted in lieu of presence at the court.

ALWAYS get a lawyer.

[rohan]

In Ohio, this would be one of the few traffic infractions for which we can and do issue citations based upon a statement by a witness. The information required from the bus driver is very specific for us to do this, and drivers are trained in what to watch for.

This.
Michigan law specifically authorizes this so it would be a perfectly justifiable action by the officer and the bus driver.  As for how "crazy" it seems to show up a day later- Michigan law for example allows officers to write civil infractions up to a year later and I'd bet most if not all states have something similar.  We also have a zero tolerance and also wouldn't allow the officer to not write a ticket- we have a complainant who signed a sworn affidavit and it becomes a matter of the bus driver vs. the other driver at that point.  The only thing we want to know from the driver is who was driving the car - and if they refuse to tell us who it was then they risk being locked up for obstructing a police investigation (felony).  After that it comes down to who has better evidence/story to put forth to the magistrate/judge depending on if they chose informal hearing or formal hearing.
If it happened exactly like you said it did you should fight it just so you can hear the bus driver side- sometimes you can reach an agreement in court on a reduced charge if there's extenuating circumstances.

[Soup DeVille]

That's not necessarily true; or at least in my state. A testimony by affidavit can be accepted in lieu of presence at the court.

ALWAYS get a lawyer.

How do you cross examine an affidavit?

I've done fairly well without a lawyer in traffic court. Certainly I'd get a lawyer for anything that might involve jail time, but that's never been a concern of mine.

[Lebowski]

No question I'd hire a lawyer and fight it.

[dazzleman]

No question I'd hire a lawyer and fight it.

A lawyer could help but I think the need for a lawyer in this case is marginal.

[GoCougs]

A lawyer could help but I think the need for a lawyer in this case is marginal.

Defending oneself in a traffic case on its merits is asking for a loss IMO. LEO is a sworn officer of the court and the prosecutor/judge knows ins and outs of procedure to a far better degree. Further, to quote one of the traffic lawyers from the firm I used in response to my allegation that the city LEO was out of jurisdiction pulling people over on the interstate: "nah, even if true the judge really won't care about that."

[GoCougs]

How do you cross examine an affidavit?

I've done fairly well without a lawyer in traffic court. Certainly I'd get a lawyer for anything that might involve jail time, but that's never been a concern of mine.

I don't know the intimate details other than rather than appearing in court the LEO can choose (and often does) to submit an affidavit instead.

[TurboDan]

Here's the cool thing about this case. Cops get paid to go to court and testify. Bus drivers don't. Chances are this clown isn't going to show up in the first place, and if he does, he'll be losing money (or time) by doing so. 

If this guy genuinely is a d-bag, you can always give him a taste of his own medicine. You said he lives near you. Well, check out his house. Does he have a fence? If so, did he get a fence permit? Did he get a building permit for that shed in the yard? Are his trees growing in excess of the local arbor code? How about his cars. Are they parked properly on the street? Enough inches from the curb? Properly registered? Updated inspection stickers? Parked facing the correct way?

You have the power to issue someone a summons too, although someone would have to be the extreme d-bag of the century for me to respond in kind. This guy seems on the milder side of the d-bag scale. 

[TurboDan]

I don't know the intimate details other than rather than appearing in court the LEO can choose (and often does) to submit an affidavit instead.

You can't cross examine an affidavit. And last I checked there are no hearsay exceptions with regard to traffic offenses should the LEO attempt to testify based on what he heard. If the bus driver doesn't show, this case gets tossed. I suppose the state could always ask to relist on a future date, though.

[MaxPower]

Here's the cool thing about this case. Cops get paid to go to court and testify. Bus drivers don't. Chances are this clown isn't going to show up in the first place, and if he does, he'll be losing money (or time) by doing so. 

If this guy genuinely is a d-bag, you can always give him a taste of his own medicine. You said he lives near you. Well, check out his house. Does he have a fence? If so, did he get a fence permit? Did he get a building permit for that shed in the yard? Are his trees growing in excess of the local arbor code? How about his cars. Are they parked properly on the street? Enough inches from the curb? Properly registered? Updated inspection stickers? Parked facing the correct way?

You have the power to issue someone a summons too, although someone would have to be the extreme d-bag of the century for me to respond in kind. This guy seems on the milder side of the d-bag scale. 

isn't that, kind of, an overreaction?

[GoCougs]

You can't cross examine an affidavit. And last I checked there are no hearsay exceptions with regard to traffic offenses should the LEO attempt to testify based on what he heard. If the bus driver doesn't show, this case gets tossed. I suppose the state could always ask to relist on a future date, though.

Cross examine? Hearsay?

At least in the district/traffic court I am in, witnesses don't have to be there if they do the affidavit process correctly. BTDT. This is probably state wide - LEOs rarely if ever show to a traffic case. It's a waste of time and resources for a non-criminal proceeding. If Ohio is like WA, if the bus driver doesn't show yet the affidavit is there the case can proceed.

[GoCougs]

isn't that, kind of, an overreaction?

Perhaps we should ask ourselves if the overreaction is warranted. By definition law that makes a good portion (if not most, in the case of traffic law) of the citizenry scofflaws is asking for overreaction. Ergo, traffic law needs to change to stop the overreaction.

[Soup DeVille]

Cross examine? Hearsay?

At least in the district/traffic court I am in, witnesses don't have to be there if they do the affidavit process correctly. BTDT. This is probably state wide - LEOs rarely if ever show to a traffic case. It's a waste of time and resources for a non-criminal proceeding. If Ohio is like WA, if the bus driver doesn't show yet the affidavit is there the case can proceed.

In every traffic case i've been to: if the cop doesn't show up, the case is dismissed.

In Detroit, the cop almost never shows up. Heck, last ticket I got in the city, the cop DID show up, but I was on the end of the docket and court ran a littel longer than the judge wanted it to, so all the remaining cases were just dismissed.

[MaxPower]

Perhaps we should ask ourselves if the overreaction is warranted. By definition law that makes a good portion (if not most, in the case of traffic law) of the citizenry scofflaws is asking for overreaction. Ergo, traffic law needs to change to stop the overreaction.

to attack the police officer and scrutinize everything about his personal life because he came and wrote a ticket?  give me a break.

[Soup DeVille]

to attack the police officer and scrutinize everything about his personal life because he came and wrote a ticket?  give me a break.

How is making sure  laws are enforced attacking a police officer?

is it my fault that there are all these laws on the books?