BMW 3 series loses comparo in Car and Driver to Lexus IS.

[r0tor]

Why?  Because of out-of-date notions of the characteristics of a four cylinder engine?

Because even BMWs latest and greatest still sounds and vibrates like an econobox engine.

[GoCougs]

You missed my point there.

While it is theoretically possible to pay 50k for an A4, 328i, and IS350...at least with the first two it would be a monumentally silly thing (for a car enthusiast) to do since you can purchase an S4 with a sticker price of 48.5k (which means you could probably buy it for closer to 45k). The reality is someone (again, using an enthusiast basis) who wants to drive an A4 for its best qualities (quattro) can easily do so for ~35k sticker price (probably ~32-33 out the door). Is an A4 ~10k better than a Camcord? Its up to each person. Personally I think it is (obviously since I drive an uplevel version of one). I know no matter how much you might want it, you cannot get AWD on a Camcord, and to get a manual transmission you need to stick with a 4-cylinder engine. Of course a little bit of internet searching also shows that the cheapest you can get an Accord with a V6 is actually ~31k (sticker price), not the ~28k price you keep quoting. UNless you are doing something irrational like comparing sticker price on BMW/Audi versus negotiated "out the door" prices with Honda?

Easy, Tiger - I averaged the class to get $28k:

Altima V6 sedan is $26k (cloth).
Camry SE V6 is $27k MSRP (cloth).
Accord V6 is $30k MSRP (leather).

Equipped tit-for-tat (minimal/minimum options), the poser class is ~$42k.

[GoCougs]

I think in the luxury segment europeans are indeed more conservative and somewhat obsessed about H&H. But the lack of competitive diesels is a very strong mistake of the japanese brands.

I think the Japanese are eschewing diesels and turbos for better gasoline engines. Though this may not do them good in countries whereby law forces the use of the first two all, they are strategically making the right call on a technical level.

[GoCougs]

This class is still worth significantly more money than the Camcords - significantly better driving dynamics, nicer interiors, higher quality builds. Though you have a valid point in that there comes point where it is not worth THAT much more.

However, I certainly wouldn't say that BMW has dropped the ball on the powertrains it is sticking in its cars...

IMO the utility vs. price differential is relatively small in this class. The class mostly exists to satiate snobbery for those that can't afford the Real Deal.

Yeah, the turbo thing is a mistake.

[GoCougs]

I just priced a Fusion Titanium on Ford.com (US site) and I didn't even add all the options and it came to $35,765.  A BMW 328i that is almost equipped exactly the same is $47,875 and you can get a manual transmission for that price as well.  Even though it's smaller, is it $12,000 better?  Absolutely.

lol at a $36k Fusion with a turbo-4...

[Raza]

Because even BMWs latest and greatest still sounds and vibrates like an econobox engine.

I haven't driven BMW's new I4, but my Jetta's 2.0T was very smooth and very powerful, as well as flexible.  A lot more punch in the midrange than my 3.0 I6 with better gas mileage (though the I6 is smoother, yes, but compared to most V6s, I'd say they're pretty close).

[NomisR]

Elises are actually quite comfortable. 

[r0tor]

lol at a $36k Fusion with a turbo-4...

Really lol at a $50k bmw with a turbo 4

[MexicoCityM3]

Really lol at a $50k bmw with a turbo 4

I am pretty sure this was more than 50K (in current dollars) back in the day.

[r0tor]

A turbo 4 back then was above average for the time... no longer thr case today

[MexicoCityM3]

A turbo 4 back then was above average for the time... no longer thr case today

Well, this particular turbo 4 is the benchmark for the class & above average in every way. It spanks every other turbo 4 in the luxury class. It's not as if BMW is the only luxury maker with a turbo 4. Everyone has one except a few japanese.

[Lebowski]

A turbo 4 back then was above average for the time... no longer thr case today

Environmental regs have changed just a bit.

[NomisR]

I am pretty sure this was more than 50K (in current dollars) back in the day.

Yeah, 1973 equivilent of $6000 is roughly $66000... for a Turbo 4.... wow..

[Onslaught]

It's actually a more a case of Lexus not offering what the European market demands (as usual).

Fuck the Europeans. Lexus doesn't need you.

[MX793]

Yeah, 1973 equivilent of $6000 is roughly $66000... for a Turbo 4.... wow..

Of course, they only made something like 1600 of them...

[r0tor]

Well, this particular turbo 4 is the benchmark for the class & above average in every way. It spanks every other turbo 4 in the luxury class. It's not as if BMW is the only luxury maker with a turbo 4. Everyone has one except a few japanese.

Benchmark how exactly?

[MexicoCityM3]

Benchmark how exactly?

Faster and more efficient than anything else in the class.

[r0tor]

Powerwise it's outperformed by many other turbo 4s.  Efficiency wise it's fairly good I agree, if they spent the effort into the NA inline 6 it probably could equal it.

[Atomic]

I must say that I don't find this generation of entry-lux cars very appealing myself.  The F30 is ugly, the C class is a Mercedes, and I'm not sure about the IS (especially if it's soldiering on with the weak 250 as the only engine with a stick).  I like the A4 a lot, but that's really it.  And if they sold the A3 with a stick and AWD, I wouldn't really consider the A4 over the A3. 

No worries Raza... They'll have a baby Jaguar XJ for you soon enough to give NA a worthy "little" sedan in this league. I know how much you love that Jag. 

[TurboDan]

50K is the new 30K.

Except in salaries, where $30K is the new $50K. 

[TurboDan]

Sure a Q50 or A4 is a better drive than a $28k Accord V6, but $22k better? The entry lux class is in the doldrums, and not worth it at this point IMO (new). Since this class depreciates something fierce there are good deals on slightly used/off-lease cars but IMO you've have to be absolutely mental to buy a $50k 328i, A4 or IS350.

This is the exact point that you disagreed with me about like 10 posts ago. WTF? 

[TurboDan]

No worries Raza... They'll have a baby Jaguar XJ for you soon enough to give NA a worthy "little" sedan in this league. I know how much you love that Jag. 

Ha.

FWIW the F-Type is the hottest car I've seen in years. Just too bad it's competing with the SL in price rather than the SLK. Ugh. Although with Jag's piss poor resale values I might be able to pick one up cheap in 3-4 years lol. 

[cawimmer430]

Fuck the Europeans. Lexus doesn't need you.

Fuck Lexus. Europe doesn't need you.

[Atomic]

I like reading the car comparisons more than most other articles in the magazines but rarely would I like one sway me into buying something I didn't already seriously consider or not. They often bring out things that confirm my own experiences (e.g., Cadillac's CUE, a tight interior). The current pecking order of things and flavor of the day are far less important with the vehicle if I have to shell out the dough and live with it for three years or more. Needless to say, I think we enjoy the thrill of the drive nearly as much if not more than the car itself. Yet, it's entertaining hearing what the experts have to say.

[Atomic]

Except in salaries, where $30K is the new $50K. 

Isn't that the truth

[keith217]

The 335i is pretty fast. I had the pleasure of driving the f30 pretty thoroughly as I was given one as a loaner car. To be honest, the suspension was pretty soft and not the most responsive.. It was definitely plenty fast in the straight lines with some really nice luxury features ( heads up display on the windshield was very convenient ).

[Laconian]

Whoa, BMW has a HUD now? I thought that was always going to be a Corvette-only oddity.

[Raza]

Whoa, BMW has a HUD now? I thought that was always going to be a Corvette-only oddity.

I think the last 5 series had it available.  It's not an oddity, it's straight up awesome.  Every car should have one. 

[SVT666]

I think the last 5 series had it available.  It's not an oddity, it's straight up awesome.  Every car should have one.

I wish it had been available on the G37.

[Lebowski]

I'm amazed the HUD hasn't caught on. It's great.