Want a sneak peak at the future of the driver's car?

[12,000 RPM]

Formula Ford EcoBoost. Street Legal Racer on Road and Nürburgring - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS

Here is something to separate the men from the mice. Danger + immediacy + speed of a motorcycle, stability + grip of a car. No radio, no traction control, no crumple zones, no alcantara suede headliners, no MyTouch, no bullshit. O, and lights, mirrors, and plates. Hey Raza... would you???

[MX793]

Street legal in the UK (and other parts of Europe) maybe, but that would never meet US requirements for being street legal.

[TurboDan]

Street legal in the UK (and other parts of Europe) maybe, but that would never meet US requirements for being street legal.

Maybe they could do it up like the Plymouth Prowler?

[MX793]

Maybe they could do it up like the Plymouth Prowler?

At a bare minimum, it will need 5 mph bumpers mounted 16-20 inches above the road (which would put the bumper about even with the top of the tires and just below eye level for the driver) and airbags.  Good luck fitting either to a Formula Ford.

[Galaxy]

At a bare minimum, it will need 5 mph bumpers mounted 16-20 inches above the road (which would put the bumper about even with the top of the tires and just below eye level for the driver) and airbags.  Good luck fitting either to a Formula Ford.

But the Ariel Atom is US street legal is it not?

[MX793]

But the Ariel Atom is US street legal is it not?

As of the 2007 MotorTrend review of the Atom 2, they were not street legal in every state and owners have to jump through some hoops to get legal status for the cars in the states in which they can be made street legal.  In other words, you don't show up to a dealership, write a check, and drive it home.  IIRC, in California they are made road legal by classifying them as kit cars (and there are only so many "kit car" registrations handed out in a given year).  Other states are probably similar.

[12,000 RPM]

This might be too extreme... but something open wheeled and minimalist is def the future.

Plus they can make it much greener than a conventional sports car which could be a selling point for marketing and legalization.

This is not much more dangerous than a motorcycle... its a wonder motorcycles are still legal. But in any case I'd much rather take my chances in this than a 2 ton Z....

[heelntoe]

WANT!


On another note, I am driving something with the same engine, the Ford EcoSport:
It only makes around 124 bhp though.

[2o6]

1.0T?


That really is a horrible looking car...

[GoCougs]

This might be too extreme... but something open wheeled and minimalist is def the future.

Plus they can make it much greener than a conventional sports car which could be a selling point for marketing and legalization.

This is not much more dangerous than a motorcycle... its a wonder motorcycles are still legal. But in any case I'd much rather take my chances in this than a 2 ton Z....

Sure there'd be a few buyers but street legal + open wheel + minimalist I don't think has any sort of future beyond what it is today - those who have the coin and desire to buy such a car couldn't care less if it's street legal. Even sidestepping cost such a car can't be driven anywhere near its potential on the street and can't be driven any material distance or carry much of anything (as in, going to track day) so why bother with the cost and compromises?

Also, I'd be very interested in seeing a 2 ton Z...

[heelntoe]

1.0T?


That really is a horrible looking car...

Yep, it also comes with a pair of 1.5-litre petrol and diesel engines.

The general public here seems to love it. In this one week, I've been stopped many times in traffic and asked about it. Of course, that's probably because it hasn't been launched yet.

[Cookie Monster]

God damn, I want.

This reminds me of the conversation in the dangerous elderly driver thread. Make everything else computer controlled, and make the enthusiast cars all like this.

[Galaxy]

This might be too extreme... but something open wheeled and minimalist is def the future.

How many "cars" do companies like Ariel and Caterham sell? Most people consider a Lotus Elise to basic.

[12,000 RPM]

How many "cars" do companies like Ariel and Caterham sell? Most people consider a Lotus Elise to basic.

An Atom is like $100K to start. Not sure how much the Cateram is. But cost/market wise I see it like this. Ducati found 7500 buyers for a motorcycle starting at $18K last year. And the Fiesta ST starts at like $20K. Granted the Fiesta has the advantage of economy of scale, but its also saddled with federalization costs. Point being, there is a market, and there are means to build such a machine at a <$20K price point profitably.

An Elise is too basic... for something that costs $50-60K new (which it did if I remember). But for something... $10K? $15K? $20K? Why not? It wouldn't have to be aluminum or federalized or any of that crap. Just 4 wheels, 2 seats, an engine and the means to control it all.

Sure there'd be a few buyers but street legal + open wheel + minimalist I don't think has any sort of future beyond what it is today - those who have the coin and desire to buy such a car couldn't care less if it's street legal. Even sidestepping cost such a car can't be driven anywhere near its potential on the street and can't be driven any material distance or carry much of anything (as in, going to track day) so why bother with the cost and compromises?

Also, I'd be very interested in seeing a 2 ton Z...

The "cant be driven at potential" argument is valid, but machines this visceral are pretty damn fun just tooling around town. Plus as far fetched as it seems, cars like this could be used for short commutes. This thing supposedly gets 57 MPG at 75 MPH. It could easily do more w/a more aerodynamic shell. Plus again, by sticking to a basic formula rather than chasing boutique & high end customers, I think such a machine could generate viable volume. I mean this thing is built for racing. Something similar built for the street & to a price point could do well.

[Cookie Monster]

I really don't see Ford coming out with this Formula Ford for under $20k, even without federalization...

[r0tor]

I woud rock a 2 seat version

[Tave]

An Atom is like $100K to start.

It's like half that and the earlier models were cheaper.

[MX793]

An Atom is like $100K to start. Not sure how much the Cateram is. But cost/market wise I see it like this. Ducati found 7500 buyers for a motorcycle starting at $18K last year. And the Fiesta ST starts at like $20K. Granted the Fiesta has the advantage of economy of scale, but its also saddled with federalization costs. Point being, there is a market, and there are means to build such a machine at a <$20K price point profitably.

An Elise is too basic... for something that costs $50-60K new (which it did if I remember). But for something... $10K? $15K? $20K? Why not? It wouldn't have to be aluminum or federalized or any of that crap. Just 4 wheels, 2 seats, an engine and the means to control it all. The "cant be driven at potential" argument is valid, but machines this visceral are pretty damn fun just tooling around town. Plus as far fetched as it seems, cars like this could be used for short commutes. This thing supposedly gets 57 MPG at 75 MPH. It could easily do more w/a more aerodynamic shell. Plus again, by sticking to a basic formula rather than chasing boutique & high end customers, I think such a machine could generate viable volume. I mean this thing is built for racing. Something similar built for the street & to a price point could do well.

Atom3s start at like $60K.  And $18K isn't that expensive for a bike.  Goldwings start at $24K and aren't exactly "exotic" or rare.  Any of the full dressed touring bikes run north of $17K.  Heck, a Vmax starts at $20K.

And a Formula Ford isn't going to cost <$20K.  20+ year old examples go for more than $10K.  New rolling chassis (no powertrain) go for north of $30K.  The car in the video... Ford said that if they built it, production runs would be 20-40 units a year at a price of "under £50k ($80K US)".

[Raza]

Formula Ford EcoBoost. Street Legal Racer on Road and Nürburgring - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS

Here is something to separate the men from the mice. Danger + immediacy + speed of a motorcycle, stability + grip of a car. No radio, no traction control, no crumple zones, no alcantara suede headliners, no MyTouch, no bullshit. O, and lights, mirrors, and plates. Hey Raza... would you???

My car doesn't have much more than that....

[Laconian]

Looks like an exciting drive, but frankly it's an evolutionary dead end if you're looking at it from the perspective of a street-legal road car.
* Did you see the glassy smooth roads he was driving on? We don't have them here... and they've only been getting worse, it seems.
* NHTSA has a habit of making nannies mandatory.
* Everybody else is driving enormous SUVs. Have you driven an Elise on the freeway before? It's utterly terrifying! You are *completely* under the radar of the distracting texting bimbo in a Range Rover that's about to change lanes into your car. This car would be even worse.

[CALL_911]

My car doesn't have much more than that....

lol

[12,000 RPM]

My car doesn't have much more than that....

If you took your car's motor, seats and wheels and bolted them to a tube frame, I'm pretty sure the result would weigh a bit less than 3100 lbs. Its got at least 1000lbs more "than that".

Looks like an exciting drive, but frankly it's an evolutionary dead end if you're looking at it from the perspective of a street-legal road car.
* Did you see the glassy smooth roads he was driving on? We don't have them here... and they've only been getting worse, it seems.
* NHTSA has a habit of making nannies mandatory.
* Everybody else is driving enormous SUVs. Have you driven an Elise on the freeway before? It's utterly terrifying! You are *completely* under the radar of the distracting texting bimbo in a Range Rover that's about to change lanes into your car. This car would be even worse.

I dont think this is the exact direction cars will go in. I am thinking somewhere between this and a side by side ATV. W/that you'd get more side clearance + visibility. As far as the NHTSA, the whole thing would be predicated on them making an exemption. Basically saying, 'if you can prove you can drive this thing safely and get someone to insure you, youre on your own'. I dont think insurance would be a hurdle as insurers will put (very expensive) policies on brand new riders on 200HP Hayabusas, and motorcycles in general. It's a big "if"  but I think its necessary and realistic.

Atom3s start at like $60K.  And $18K isn't that expensive for a bike.  Goldwings start at $24K and aren't exactly "exotic" or rare.  Any of the full dressed touring bikes run north of $17K.  Heck, a Vmax starts at $20K.

And a Formula Ford isn't going to cost <$20K.  20+ year old examples go for more than $10K.  New rolling chassis (no powertrain) go for north of $30K.  The car in the video... Ford said that if they built it, production runs would be 20-40 units a year at a price of "under £50k ($80K US)".

Well, that Goldwings and Vmaxes go for so much and have been selling for over 20 yrs only bolsters the case for cars like this. There is a strong market for $20K vehicles that can't carry much stuff or people and aren't great for long drives.

And I don't think the inboard suspension or racing slicks of the Formula Ford would really translate well to the road. But something like a tube frame Miata would. Motorcycles don't have crash standards. We know the deal. I don't think too many people here check crash test results for their sports cars. I think there is a huge market for cars that are exempt or just barely legal crash wise for enthusiasts. For $10K and the choice between a motorcycle or something w/a motorcycle engine, 2 seats and 4 wheels I think we know what most people would go for.

[MX793]

$10K is a pipe dream.  A BRP/CanAm Spyder, which is about as close to a mass produced vehicle as you're describing (OK, it's got 3 wheels instead of 4) is $17K in its cheapest, most bare-bones configuration.

[Catman]

Due to the height of this thing I think you might be safer on an MC.

[12,000 RPM]

$10K is prob a pipe dream

But $15-20K... not so much. Can Am w/a 4th wheel and a steering wheel is exactly what I'm thinking

[MrH]

Speaking of can am spider... Has anyone here ridden one? A coworker just got his second one. Talked to him for awhile about it. He keeps buying the lame touring ones with all sorts of shit on them. The rs-s version looks pretty slick.

[MX793]

$10K is prob a pipe dream

But $15-20K... not so much. Can Am w/a 4th wheel and a steering wheel is exactly what I'm thinking

Problem is, as soon as you add that 4th wheel, it gets classified as a car and now must meet car safety and emissions requirements.  Or be sold as a "kit" vehicle, which limits sales in some states since they restrict how many new "kit" vehicles can be registered in a given year.

[MX793]

Speaking of can am spider... Has anyone here ridden one? A coworker just got his second one. Talked to him for awhile about it. He keeps buying the lame touring ones with all sorts of shit on them. The rs-s version looks pretty slick.

I see the touring models as a viable option to the big, fully dressed tourers like the Goldwing.  Especially for smaller folks who don't have a lot of leg strength, or anybody who's not comfortable with the thought of throwing a leg over a 850+ lb 2-wheeler.  If you're not going to spring for the touring models (and are physically able to ride a 2-wheeler), you're better off spending a lot less and getting a bike that will be quicker, handle better, and get better mileage.  And take up less space in your garage.

[MrH]

I see the touring models as a viable option to the big, fully dressed tourers like the Goldwing.  Especially for smaller folks who don't have a lot of leg strength, or anybody who's not comfortable with the thought of throwing a leg over a 850+ lb 2-wheeler.  If you're not going to spring for the touring models (and are physically able to ride a 2-wheeler), you're better off spending a lot less and getting a bike that will be quicker, handle better, and get better mileage.  And take up less space in your garage.

I asked him why he bought it. He's probably only 5'2"-5'4". He said he isn't big enough to ride a 1 liter bike.

I guess just the idea it's much more stable makes the can am seem like a viable option. Two wheeled motoring just scares the shit out of me.

[MX793]

I asked him why he bought it. He's probably only 5'2"-5'4". He said he isn't big enough to ride a 1 liter bike.

I guess just the idea it's much more stable makes the can am seem like a viable option. Two wheeled motoring just scares the shit out of me.

More stable at a stop or very low speeds.  Cornering at speed, I'd wager a bike is more comfortable/confidence inspiring (basing this on my experience with snowmobiles and ATVs).  When your vehicle doesn't lean, lateral cornering forces now try to throw you off the side of the vehicle and when you don't have seat bolsters or anything belting you in, that means you have to hang on that much harder to keep from being flung off.  But for someone with such a short stature, yes, he's going to have trouble touching the ground on any 2-wheeler other than a cruiser.