The Ultimate Daily Driver?

[veeman]

Mercedes G-wagen

armored G-wagen would work too.  decisions, decisions...

the bentley is such an unbelievable car though.  its amazing how much agility and speed it has for such a heavy big plush car.  and it doesn't look overwrought like the rolls royce.

armored bentley:

[Raza]

I'm not a paranoid guy but i'd feel uncomfortable commuting in a superlux car because of attention from unsavory types.  Never underestimate the idiocy of a punk gangbanger who just doesn't give a shit about anything (i.e. Aaron hernandez).   So which superlux car would be most comfortable and most natural to have aftermarket high grade armoring.  Either a rolls royce or a bentley.  I'd pick the bentley.  Its more of a drivers car.

You'd hate driving my car daily then.

[veeman]

You'd hate driving my car daily then.

yeah, i wouldn't want a convertible as a daily driver even if the weather was like san diego all year round.  i've been in a few convertibles and rented one for a week ( a red beetle).  i remember being stopped at a busy intersection at a traffic light and was talking with someone on my phone.  suddenly it dawned on me that everyone was looking at me.  it felt weird and a little unsettling.  i'm much more of a coupe kind of guy.  cayman over boxster, for sure.  plus, i have shitty f_cking seasonal allergies that kick my ass in the spring (tree pollen). 

[Raza]

yeah, i wouldn't want a convertible as a daily driver even if the weather was like san diego all year round.  i've been in a few convertibles and rented one for a week ( a red beetle).  i remember being stopped at a busy intersection at a traffic light and was talking with someone on my phone.  suddenly it dawned on me that everyone was looking at me.  it felt weird and a little unsettling.  i'm much more of a coupe kind of guy.  cayman over boxster, for sure.  plus, i have shitty f_cking seasonal allergies that kick my ass in the spring (tree pollen).

A lot of people can't get over the feeling of being vulnerable and visible to everyone all the time.  It is strange.  More people talk to you in traffic as well.  I've developed something of a rapport with the guy who sells newspapers on the street corner because he complimented my car one morning, and now we say hello whenever I get stopped at that light.  Funny thing is, I've never bought a newspaper from him, since I have a slight OCD that keeps me from touching newspapers (or finger-painting).  It's a much more social experience than being caged up in a car with a roof.  It's not for everybody. 

[Rupert]

For me, right now, the ultimate DD is like a Miata. Good MPGs, quick, convertible, room for groceries. Could range up to a sporty wagon, though, depending on what kind of commute it is and how many other cars I can have.

[280Z Turbo]

For me, right now, the ultimate DD is like a Miata. Good MPGs, quick, convertible, room for groceries. Could range up to a sporty wagon, though, depending on what kind of commute it is and how many other cars I can have.

I could go for something like a Miata, except with a straight six, fixed roof, and bigger. In other words, not really a Miata at all.

[MX793]

I could go for something like a Miata, except with a straight six, fixed roof, and bigger. In other words, not really a Miata at all.

Sounds like a Z3 or Z4 coupe.

[Soup DeVille]

Sounds like a Z3 or Z4 coupe.

Sounds like a 280Z to me.

[Raza]

I could go for something like a Miata, except with a straight six, fixed roof, and bigger. In other words, not really a Miata at all.

I want a Miata that's a 2+2 fixed roof coupe with a V8 and under 150" long weighing around 2000 pounds. 

[MX793]

Sounds like a 280Z to me.

Or 260Z, or 240Z...

[MX793]

I want a Miata that's a 2+2 fixed roof coupe with a V8 and under 150" long weighing around 2000 pounds. 

With enough room in the back seat for 6ft tall adults to sit comfortably on a long road trip, or to fit a modern child seat.

[veeman]

it seems that people are answering the original poster's question with a "normal" car budget.  The original question stated money no limit and my assumption was also that maintenance/repair/insurance were not considerations although perhaps that's reaching as far as an assumption.  However if the parameter is money no limit, that parameter only makes sense if the cost of operating such vehicle as a daily driver is also included. 

Why wouldn't most people want cars at or near the superlux category given these parameters? 

That's like being given an hour to get whatever you want from a high end electronics store, and picking out a cathode-ray tube while ignoring the latest greatest LCD/plasma.  Makes no sense?!

[Raza]

it seems that people are answering the original poster's question with a "normal" car budget.  The original question stated money no limit and my assumption was also that maintenance/repair/insurance were not considerations although perhaps that's reaching as far as an assumption.  However if the parameter is money no limit, that parameter only makes sense if the cost of operating such vehicle as a daily driver is also included. 

Why wouldn't most people want cars at or near the superlux category given these parameters? 

That's like being given an hour to get whatever you want from a high end electronics store, and picking out a cathode-ray tube while ignoring the latest greatest LCD/plasma.  Makes no sense?!

Ultralux and supercars just don't interest me much.  I mean, do you really want to be stuck in traffic in an Aventador or parallel park in one?  When the road opens up and you get to have some fun, do you really want be in a Maybach 65 or Rolls Royce Phantom?

[SVT666]

Exactly.  That's why I picked a super duper version of an entry lux wagon.

[veeman]

Ultralux and supercars just don't interest me much.  I mean, do you really want to be stuck in traffic in an Aventador or parallel park in one?  When the road opens up and you get to have some fun, do you really want be in a Maybach 65 or Rolls Royce Phantom?

Sorry dude.  I don't believe you.  You mean to tell me you'd rather daily drive your car rather than a bmw z8?  Or audi r8 convertible?  I understand you don't want to be in a lamborghini or rolls royce because of compromises relating to extremes of poor visibility and low ride height on the one hand and largess on the other hand, but not every supercar or near supercar is that extreme. 

That's almost antithesis to being part of a car forum.  I'm not talking about value.  I'm talking about pick whatever you want.  Whatever your heart desires. 

I understand comfort food being plain and without frills.  But a comfort car?

[Raza]

Sorry dude.  I don't believe you.  You mean to tell me you'd rather daily drive your car rather than a bmw z8?  Or audi r8 convertible?  I understand you don't want to be in a lamborghini or rolls royce because of compromises relating to extremes of poor visibility and low ride height on the one hand and largess on the other hand, but not every supercar or near supercar is that extreme. 

That's almost antithesis to being part of a car forum.  I'm not talking about value.  I'm talking about pick whatever you want.  Whatever your heart desires. 

I understand comfort food being plain and without frills.  But a comfort car?

I've already stated that I prefer my Z4 to the Ferrari 430 I drove, so I'm not sure what's not to believe.  The Z8 and R8 aren't exactly supercars in the strictest sense, really, compared to things like the Aventador and 458 or the like.  The Z8's beauty might make it a compelling argument, but again, driving a really high performance car in really mundane situations can get really frustrating.  You never get to open it up, you never get to feel its potential, you just pootle around in a relative sense.  I want something I can really get into on a daily basis, and unless you live on a racetrack or the Isle of Man, you can't really do that with a supercar or hypercar.

There's no antithesis to being on a car forum.  There's no template to being a car enthusiast.  You can love the hypercars and lust after them, that's fine.  You can love Volvo 240s and 240s only and you're still a car enthusiast.  We don't all have to like the same things.  On my watch forum, for example, you have guys who lust over quarter million dollar Patek dress watches...that I find ugly and boring.  If you asked me what my ideal daily wear watch would be, it would be something like a Tudor Heritage Chronograph--"cheap" at $4,000 compared the to ultra-luxury watches of A. Lange & Sohne, Patek, and Audemars.  That doesn't make me any less of a watch enthusiast or them any more, it's just different taste.  Not everyone has to like the Ferrari the best or prefer the car that's fastest around a track.  That's not what counts to me. 

The cars that I really truly desire tend to be vintage models, with questionable reliability and poor performance compared to modern cars, and that just doesn't make for a good daily driver.  The question wasn't fantasy garage, it was ideal daily driver.  Sure, I'd love a 964 RS America, but that's not exactly an ideal daily driver.  Neither is a Ferrari Daytona. 

[MrH]

You're not a car enthusiast at that point.  You're a Volvo 240 enthusiast.

You guys come up with every reason in the world to justify your own purchase as the best thing since sliced bread, and all other cars suck.  I finally see why ChrisV got so fed up with this place.  I figured car enthusiasts would actually enjoy most cars, especially things like super cars.

[Raza]

You're not a car enthusiast at that point.  You're a Volvo 240 enthusiast.

You guys come up with every reason in the world to justify your own purchase as the best thing since sliced bread, and all other cars suck.  I finally see why ChrisV got so fed up with this place.  I figured car enthusiasts would actually enjoy most cars, especially things like super cars.

I do enjoy them.

I just don't want to drive up and down 95 everyday in one.  You seem to know everything about everything for someone who, to my knowledge, has never driven a supercar. 

[MrH]

No, just an open mind to cars outside of my little bubble of experience

[veeman]

the "near" supercar or whatever category (which isn't really clearly defined) would include the bmw z8 or audi R8.  The "near" supercar class has vehicles which obliterate normal cars or entry level luxury cars in almost every category that can be used to rate cars with the "driver" in mind except of course value. 

this is not just speed.  it includes handling, agility, stability, smoothness, shift quality, quality and craftmanship of interior materials, etc. etc.

to argue that a normal or entry level luxury car is better than all of the available "near" supercars in a summation of these driving characteristic categories which a particular person finds important is not compelling.  Therefore, my assumption is that the person picking the normal car or entry level luxury car is picking it over all of the available "near" supercars because of some characteristic outside of a "driving" category.

for every totally awesome normal or entry level luxury car out there, there is going to be a "near" supercar which is noticeably better than it for what that normal or entry level luxury car is known to be good for, in terms of the driver in mind.

i understand many people would not want to drive a near supercar daily because they don't want to be that "showy".  It would make them feel self-conscious and the ostentatious display of such wealth will bring them bad karma.  But to say, that this normal or entry level luxury car is a better daily driving car than all of the available "near" supercars, many of which are fantastic at any speed, is well... i just don't buy into that.

the watch analogy falls a little bit short because watches are not really about telling time or any other function.  Any 100 dollar digital g-shock with  atomic timekeeping is going to tell the time much more accurately than a 100,000 dollar plus Breguet with a tourbillon.  It's just a matter of style, history and heritage, and appreciation of mechanical craftmanship.  And people start identifying themselves as likers of certain brands and dislikers of other brands.  The watch just sits on your wrist as a piece of jewelry.   

   

[Raza]

No, just an open mind to cars outside of my little bubble of experience

Um, okay. 

I love how you rip on people who are turned off by cars even though they've never driven them, but you shit your pants and come in your hand over cars you've never driven and somehow that's fantastic.  And yet, you can't grasp how people can respect a car, but not want it.

[SVT666]

The question was, "What is your ideal DD?"

We answered.

Then we're told we're wrong.

I. Give. Up.

[Raza]

the "near" supercar or whatever category (which isn't really clearly defined) would include the bmw z8 or audi R8.  The "near" supercar class has vehicles which obliterate normal cars or entry level luxury cars in almost every category that can be used to rate cars with the "driver" in mind except of course value. 

this is not just speed.  it includes handling, agility, stability, smoothness, shift quality, quality and craftmanship of interior materials, etc. etc.

to argue that a normal or entry level luxury car is better than all of the available "near" supercars in a summation of these driving characteristic categories which a particular person finds important is not compelling.  Therefore, my assumption is that the person picking the normal car or entry level luxury car is picking it over all of the available "near" supercars because of some characteristic outside of a "driving" category.

for every totally awesome normal or entry level luxury car out there, there is going to be a "near" supercar which is noticeably better than it for what that normal or entry level luxury car is known to be good for, in terms of the driver in mind.

i understand many people would not want to drive a near supercar daily because they don't want to be that "showy".  It would make them feel self-conscious and the ostentatious display of such wealth will bring them bad karma.  But to say, that this normal or entry level luxury car is a better daily driving car than all of the available "near" supercars, many of which are fantastic at any speed, is well... i just don't buy into that.

the watch analogy falls a little bit short because watches are not really about telling time or any other function.  Any 100 dollar digital g-shock with  atomic timekeeping is going to tell the time much more accurately than a 100,000 dollar plus Breguet with a tourbillon.  It's just a matter of style, history and heritage, and appreciation of mechanical craftmanship.  And people start identifying themselves as likers of certain brands and dislikers of other brands.  The watch just sits on your wrist as a piece of jewelry.   

You don't get to decide what I or anyone else should value in a daily driver, and I think that's where you're failing to see other viewpoints than yours.  If your daily drive involves taking your three kids to school before a long highway journey work, you probably don't want to do that in a GT3.  If you drive over horrific pockmarked roads, you might want something with a softer, more accommodating suspension.  If you're single and don't care about anything else, maybe you want an Ariel Atom. 

So yes, people picking normal cars are picking them because of something outside of just the driving experience.  And the question is "What is your ideal daily driver?", not "What is your fantasy lottery garage?"  So yes, a 335i is most likely a better daily driver than an Aventador for most people.  I don't get why that's so hard to understand.  People have different priorities than other people.  I drive a sports car everyday.  Drove top down through the rain this morning.  Most people look at me like a lunatic.  But my priorities are just different from theirs.  I don't care to have a big trunk or a car to take a bunch of people out to lunch in.  Other people do.  I don't care much about comfort, clearly.  The Z4 has the most punishing ride of any car I've ever driven, including the Ferrari 430 and Lotus Elise.  Other people do, considering the number of Benzes and Lexuses I see in my parking lot everyday. 

The watch analogy only falls short because you focus on the wrong thing--not to mention that atomic G-Shocks don't receive and atomic signal in several parts of the world and have unremarkable accuracy when not syncing (my G-Shock was less accurate than my manual wind Omega, for example).  It is all about what you value.  If you value accuracy above all else, yes, a cheap quartz or a more expensive thermocompensated quartz watch is the way to go.  If it's mechanical precision, then you're going to want a mechanical watch.  If it's a personal relationship, you're going to want a handwound watch.  If you're a commercial diver, you don't want a 30m WR precious metal minute repeater masterpiece from A. Lange & Sohne.

You need to accept that other people have different perceptions, wants, needs, and values than you.

[MrH]

Um, okay. 

I love how you rip on people who are turned off by cars even though they've never driven them, but you shit your pants and come in your hand over cars you've never driven and somehow that's fantastic.  And yet, you can't grasp how people can respect a car, but not want it.

It's the difference of being open minded and close minded about cars.  You guys are so close minded sometimes I question whether you even like cars.

[Raza]

It's the difference of being open minded and close minded about cars.  You guys are so close minded sometimes I question whether you even like cars.

Please, I'm more open-minded than any of you.  Being open-minded doesn't mean you have to like everything.  Like I said, you can respect a car for its accomplishments without wanting one.  It's the difference between "Car A is good at what it does, but I don't want it" and "Car A is a piece of crap because I don't want it". 

e.g. "The Honda Odyssey is the best minivan in the market, but I'd rather have a GTI."

[SVT666]

It's the difference of being open minded and close minded about cars.  You guys are so close minded sometimes I question whether you even like cars.

I don't like most cars because most cars are appliances built to get from Point A to Point B.  I'm an enthusiast and I like fun cars.  Fun cars make up a minority of the cars available.  I also prefer cars that I can drive hard without getting to insane levels of speed.  Having said that, I love Supercars and Hypercars and the mind blowing levels of performance they can achieve on a track, but for my personal use, I would likely never buy anything more capable than an Audi R8 no matter how much money I have.  As for a DD, I picked the CTS-V Wagon because it's a fun car, comfortable car, fast car, and can carry almost anything I bring home from Costco, everything my kids usually need when going to summer camp, the beach, or when going on a road trip.  If my DD must also tow my boat, then I have to get something much much less fun.

[veeman]

The question was, "What is your ideal DD?"

We answered.

Then we're told we're wrong.

I. Give. Up.

i was just surprised that when given an option of pick any daily driver you want, cost no matter, many people who replied gave an example of a normal car or entry level luxury car.  i then queried the rationale behind this and articulated my opinion regarding the folly behind this rationale to which i received various responses.

that pretty much sums up the format and function of most forums.  usually people will dig in and defend their initial positions and occasionally people will acknowledge certain deficits in their initial assertions when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  Some people will never acknowledge these deficits because, well, they can't.  There's almost never a "right" answer anyways unlike what you might find in some sort of mathematics or physics forum.

[MrH]

The hypocrisy...it's killing me.

You like fun cars, but unfortunately most cars are appliances that get from point A to point B...but you call the LaFerrari boring.

You don't like supercars because you can't touch the capability of them on the street...but you want a CTS-V.

[Raza]

i was just surprised that when given an option of pick any daily driver you want, cost no matter, many people who replied gave an example of a normal car or entry level luxury car.  i then queried the rationale behind this and articulated my opinion regarding the folly behind this rationale to which i received various responses.

that pretty much sums up the format and function of most forums.  usually people will dig in and defend their initial positions and occasionally people will acknowledge certain deficits in their initial assertions when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  Some people will never acknowledge these deficits because, well, they can't.  There's almost never a "right" answer anyways unlike what you might find in some sort of mathematics or physics forum.

Um, you called it a folly and then say there's no right answer?  So what the fuck is your problem anyway?  That people have different priorities than you do?  How about for the next thread, we'll have "veeman tells you what your ideal daily driver is" and you can be happy with that?

You are really showing an inability to see beyond your own viewpoint.  Why don't you just accept that people are different from you?  Things will go a lot more smoothly that way.

[SVT666]

i was just surprised that when given an option of pick any daily driver you want, cost no matter, many people who replied gave an example of a normal car or entry level luxury car.  i then queried the rationale behind this and articulated my opinion regarding the folly behind this rationale to which i received various responses.

that pretty much sums up the format and function of most forums.  usually people will dig in and defend their initial positions and occasionally people will acknowledge certain deficits in their initial assertions when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  Some people will never acknowledge these deficits because, well, they can't.  There's almost never a "right" answer anyways unlike what you might find in some sort of mathematics or physics forum.

Then you flat out told us we were not enthusiasts because we picked something other than a supercar.  A supercar is absolutely useless for my daily drive.