Has the supercar become less super?

[12,000 RPM]

StillMAD

Yeah, progress is such a problem in the automotive industry.  Having more good options to choose from is terrible.

3 supercars that are basically the same car = more options? 

[Raza]

It's true, Sporty loves tech. Stability control (which I don't mind if it can be turned off), KERS for street cars, autonomous cars, and so on.

[Raza]

You'd imagine this is an old guard versus new generation thing. But it isn't a straight line by age. Sure, Craig and Josh are both a bit older, but Sporty and I are about the same age (though older than many regular posters here), but even Rags has expressed disinterest in the newest generation of supercars. I myself started to lose interest around the time of the Enzo.

Cars are more capable than ever, that much is indisputable. Whether that by default makes them more desirable than ever is where there seems to be a rift. Some, it seems, believe that a car enthusiast must love the newest and fastest thing without fail, which is not to say that there aren't those who only value the old and romanticized.

Why the idea of preferring one or the other incenses either group so is what intrigues me. Why so bothered by those who don't like these new computers on wheels? It's funny, I can draw another watch parallel here. There's a "small watch" crowd that seems to hate that people wear watches over 38mm. It's not enough that they simply buy and wear what they like, they demand that others do as they would do as well. I just don't get it.

[SVT666]

I don't get it either Raza.

[S204STi]

I have no problem either way. Just trolling sporty, since this is remarkably similar to his usual tirades about fast cars sucking, etc.

[12,000 RPM]

I have no problem either way. Just trolling sporty, since this is remarkably similar to his usual tirades about fast cars sucking, etc.

You're still angry I said a turbo BRZ was a bad idea (it still is)

[giant_mtb]

Since I'll never get to drive any of the 3 crazy cars (Laferrari, P1, 918), I have to say on paper they look very similar. Crazy engine with some sort of hybrid setup.

I kinda agree with Sporty on this one. I definitely don't think those cars will be boring to drive or that they aren't supercars, but to me they aren't something I'd like to hang up on my wall and drool over like the F40 or Miura. Something about these new supercars just doesn't do it for me. The last supercars that I really, really wanted were the Zonda and CCX. I guess if I wanted a new supercar now, I'd get the Noble M600, but even that doesn't get me as excited as the old M12 GTO 3R did.

I'm kind of losing interest in the new generation of supercars tbh.

I agree.  I haven't really desired any supercars lately...not for years, really.   

[2o6]

Supercars have never been attainable for me

[Onslaught]

I know I'll never own a super car so I've never dreamed about them or looked into them near as much as most of you. I'm more into RX, Z and other cars that I can actually own. I don't hate new hyper cars but I sure don't get the warm and fuzzy feeling about many of them compared to some of the older ones. I'm not eve sure I can put my finger on why. I think it's because I like the simple cars more then then computer stuff.

[Soup DeVille]

Supercars have never been attainable for me

Yes, but when you're twelve, nothing else is either so it doesn't matter.

[Soup DeVille]

Naw I still have wet dreams about cars like the F1 & F40

Well, it's a dull man who's given up all of his youthful exuberance, isn't it?

[S204STi]

You're still angry I said a turbo BRZ was a bad idea (it still is)

Anyone who actually tracks their cars disagrees.

[12,000 RPM]

Anyone who actually tracks their cars disagrees.

Can you point me to one of these people? There are plenty of folks with "slow" track cars and no desire to turbocharge them.

[S204STi]

My NASA-certified driving instructor friend, for one, who wouldn't buy one without a turbo.  He has more experience on-track than everyone here combined.

[S204STi]

Anyway, back on topic:  I don't think the problem is with car manufacturers making boring cars, it's that it's a generational thing to fall in love with the cars we idolized as kids/young adults, and stick with those regardless of what comes out.  My dad was like that with his AMX, and my G-ma was like that with her 66 Mustang.  No matter how improved the latest cars were, they weren't as exciting as the cars they grew up with.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

My NASA-certified driving instructor friend, for one, who wouldn't buy one without a turbo.  He has more experience on-track than everyone here combined.

The guy flies shuttles, big f'in woop. Doesn't qualify him as the authority on what should and shouldn't be on a racetrack.

[12,000 RPM]

My NASA-certified driving instructor friend, for one, who wouldn't buy one without a turbo.  He has more experience on-track than everyone here combined.

You guys are a mile above sea level. And he is just one dude. Not exactly representative of every driver everywhere. There are plenty of folks (some of whom are also NASA-certified driving instructors) who have been tracking their "wheezy" Miatas and Civics for years with no desire to "upgrade". As for the BRZ the easy fix for more power is more displacement. It would have been pretty much free and added no cost or weight- which are the two big drivers of the car in the first place.

[hotrodalex]

There are plenty of folks (some of whom are also NASA-certified driving instructors) who have been tracking their "wheezy" Miatas and Civics for years with no desire to "upgrade".

Not exactly representative of every driver everywhere. 

[SVT666]

Anyway, back on topic:  I don't think the problem is with car manufacturers making boring cars, it's that it's a generational thing to fall in love with the cars we idolized as kids/young adults, and stick with those regardless of what comes out.  My dad was like that with his AMX, and my G-ma was like that with her 66 Mustang.  No matter how improved the latest cars were, they weren't as exciting as the cars they grew up with.

I disagree.  There are hardly any cars from my childhood, adolescent years, or even from my early 20s that I like better than what's available today, but today's hypercars' performance levels are so beyond anyone's driving ability, beyond any limits of all but one track on the planet, and anyone's ability to even comprehend those speeds, that I think a lot of people would rather have more of what made those old cars special than what makes today's hypercars special.

[Raza]

My NASA-certified driving instructor friend, for one, who wouldn't buy one without a turbo.  He has more experience on-track than everyone here combined.

NASA has certified drivers now?  I thought they were more about the space thing.

[NomisR]

You guys are a mile above sea level. And he is just one dude. Not exactly representative of every driver everywhere. There are plenty of folks (some of whom are also NASA-certified driving instructors) who have been tracking their "wheezy" Miatas and Civics for years with no desire to "upgrade". As for the BRZ the easy fix for more power is more displacement. It would have been pretty much free and added no cost or weight- which are the two big drivers of the car in the first place.

Going faster is eventually nice.  If there's racing or playing around in a spec series where mods are limited, I get it because your competition is all the same anyways.  But if you're doing something like a track day, it still feels more enjoyable to have a faster car simply because it takes less work to get around someone slower than you are..

[hotrodalex]

I can't imagine going to a track with some with 200-300 HP and not wanting more eventually. You get to the point where you're comfortable with the car and then want to improve. You can usually improve your driving, but sometimes an upgrade is needed too.

[12,000 RPM]

I disagree.  There are hardly any cars from my childhood, adolescent years, or even from my early 20s that I like better than what's available today, but today's hypercars' performance levels are so beyond anyone's driving ability, beyond any limits of all but one track on the planet, and anyone's ability to even comprehend those speeds, that I think a lot of people would rather have more of what made those old cars special than what makes today's hypercars special.

Look at the names of Mc Laren's cars for fucks sake. MP4-12C. Sounds like a model number for an A/V receiver.

Going faster is eventually nice.  If there's racing or playing around in a spec series where mods are limited, I get it because your competition is all the same anyways.  But if you're doing something like a track day, it still feels more enjoyable to have a faster car simply because it takes less work to get around someone slower than you are..

If everything is in sync (power, handling, brakes, skills) then I can see that. But hammering down straights and then crawling through corners because the car isn't balanced or I am too shitty of a driver to exploit it seems kind of silly to me. It's more dickwaving than actually driving when it plays out that way.

I can't imagine going to a track with some with 200-300 HP and not wanting more eventually. You get to the point where you're comfortable with the car and then want to improve. You can usually improve your driving, but sometimes an upgrade is needed too.

True but 200-300HP is a long way from 950HP.

[Cookie Monster]

I can't imagine going to a track with some with 200-300 HP and not wanting more eventually. You get to the point where you're comfortable with the car and then want to improve. You can usually improve your driving, but sometimes an upgrade is needed too.

At this point I am fine with my 167hp. It takes a lot more to mess the car up. Eventually, I agree that I'd like ~250 whp but for now I don't think I could handle it.

[hotrodalex]

To me, the right amount of power is when you can put the pedal down and accelerate as quickly as possible. This is usually limited by tires - my 260 HP was easily enough for autocross last weekend since I could light up the tire whenever I wanted, even in 2nd. But with a limited slip and better tires, I'm sure I'd want more power (most of the other cars had 400+)

There's definitely a point at which you have more power than you really need, but it's different for every car.

[giant_mtb]

Anyway, back on topic:  I don't think the problem is with car manufacturers making boring cars, it's that it's a generational thing to fall in love with the cars we idolized as kids/young adults, and stick with those regardless of what comes out.  My dad was like that with his AMX, and my G-ma was like that with her 66 Mustang.  No matter how improved the latest cars were, they weren't as exciting as the cars they grew up with.

Yeah, I think this pretty much sums it up.

[Rupert]

To me, the right amount of power is when you can put the pedal down and accelerate as quickly as possible. This is usually limited by tires - my 260 HP was easily enough for autocross last weekend since I could light up the tire whenever I wanted, even in 2nd. But with a limited slip and better tires, I'm sure I'd want more power (most of the other cars had 400+)

There's definitely a point at which you have more power than you really need, but it's different for every car.

On the other hand, it's pretty well known that small and light is way better for autocross than fat and powerful.

[hotrodalex]

On the other hand, it's pretty well known that small and light is way better for autocross than fat and powerful.

Well yeah, but I was just using it as an example of when I was really driving it hard. If I drove that hard on the street/track I also wouldn't see a big need for more power until some other upgrades are done.