Has the supercar become less super?

[12,000 RPM]

I swear to god I have no relation to this dude... though I have made many of these points before

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/has-the-supercar-become-less-super-790795524

[MrH]

What the world needs is a thick rimmed glasses wearing, indie loving, Starbucks Coffee drinking hipster of a company to release a car that refuses to conform to the mainstream.

This just confirms it.  You're a Jalopnik elitist, automotive hipster

But seriously, the whole article was about being distinctive.  And the idea is that these cars aren't distinctive because they're all so great.  Great performance, presumably great to drive (and I hold to that until someone drives the damn things and tells me they're awful.  They're too outrageous to assume otherwise).  I don't want a car that's less enjoyable in order to be more distinctive.  Greatness isn't something that should be compromised just to be different.  Who cares how distinct it is? 

The first comment summed up my thoughts pretty well:

I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

These crazy new cars (LaFerrari, P1, 918, etc) can go crazy fast speed, (like 0-100 in under 7 seconds). They haven't even been available yet for proper review. Maybe it's cause you haven't driven a supercar (or maybe you have). Not even those cars, 458's and aventadors. Those cars are breathtaking in the flesh, eargasmic noises, and scary quick.

If you think those cars are getting boring, then you have lost the way of being a gearhead.

A tesla is an amazing car, but they aren't what make my gentleman parts fizzy. They are great, and I am happy that Tesla is gaining momentum. But it's not what I aspire to have.

Give me an Aventador in Matte Black, let me shoot some flames from that huge elephant-leg sized exhaust, and let me hear that glorious V12 sing.

When you become more concerned with how distinctive a car is, and how it's perceived, than what it actually brings to the table, I think you've lost the way of being a gear head.  I don't understand the mindset that this has already been done before.  NOTHING like this round of hypercars has been done before.  I don't know what you expect them to do.  A flying car?

[280Z Turbo]

Top Gear is always on about this shit too, at least when it comes to Lambos. Lamborghini should build something RWD with 700 hp and swing axles to satisfy the "Lamborghini should be mental" crowd.

[Xer0]

Well, a supercar is pretty much a car that's at a whole other level in xyz category.  The new round of electro/hybrid/whatever cars from Ferarri, Porsche, and McLaren are the very definition of a supercar.  Maybe having this many spectacularly good cars ruins some of the fun and novelty, but, it doesn't make them any less super.  What I think will happen, however, is we will start wanting super status in other areas.  The Model S that the original article refers could very well lead to a different kind of supercar that doesn't aim to get the quickest 0-60 time and pull the highest Gs but is still very much an incredible machine in other areas. 

[NomisR]

Lamborghini



H&H™

[12,000 RPM]

This just confirms it.  You're a Jalopnik elitist, automotive hipster

But seriously, the whole article was about being distinctive.  And the idea is that these cars aren't distinctive because they're all so great.  Great performance, presumably great to drive (and I hold to that until someone drives the damn things and tells me they're awful.  They're too outrageous to assume otherwise).  I don't want a car that's less enjoyable in order to be more distinctive.  Greatness isn't something that should be compromised just to be different.  Who cares how distinct it is? 

The first comment summed up my thoughts pretty well:

When you become more concerned with how distinctive a car is, and how it's perceived, than what it actually brings to the table, I think you've lost the way of being a gear head.  I don't understand the mindset that this has already been done before.  NOTHING like this round of hypercars has been done before.  I don't know what you expect them to do.  A flying car?

Being a gear head isn't just limited to being a technology and performance freak as you are trying to paint it. There's way more to automotive enthusiasm than that. Again there's a reason you bought your car instead of an EVO or whatever is the fastest + most advanced car you could have got for the same money. Plus nobody said this has been done before. Obviously there haven't been any hybrid supercars before

But the fact that 3 manufacturers came up with basically the same car in a vacuum speaks to what I have been trying (and failing) to speak to. Back in the days supercars and cars in general were more reflective of their respective companies' philosophies and histories. You had the brutal F40 alongside the high tech Teutonic 959 and the flamboyant Countach. The cars were different because the goals and mindsets behind the cars were different. Now the only things that matter are lap times, performance figures and emissions. Each of the 3 supercars are essentially interchangeable in looks, componentry and concept. I get the value in performance and innovation and I am not knocking these cars for that... they are great technological achievements. But is it so weird or "hipster" to want a car to be more than that?

[MrH]

Being a gear head isn't just limited to being a technology and performance freak as you are trying to paint it. There's way more to automotive enthusiasm than that. Again there's a reason you bought your car instead of an EVO or whatever is the fastest + most advanced car you could have got for the same money. Plus nobody said this has been done before. Obviously there haven't been any hybrid supercars before

But the fact that 3 manufacturers came up with basically the same car in a vacuum speaks to what I have been trying (and failing) to speak to. Back in the days supercars and cars in general were more reflective of their respective companies' philosophies and histories. You had the brutal F40 alongside the high tech Teutonic 959 and the flamboyant Countach. The cars were different because the goals and mindsets behind the cars were different. Now the only things that matter are lap times, performance figures and emissions. Each of the 3 supercars are essentially interchangeable in looks, componentry and concept. I get the value in performance and innovation and I am not knocking these cars for that... they are great technological achievements. But is it so weird or "hipster" to want a car to be more than that?

I guess that's where we differ.  I view all three to be pretty distinct.  It's a mad rush to combine lightweight savings, with some sort of way to store power.  The fact the engineering kind of converged just gives credit to the design IMO.  Porsche has a very Germanic approach.  The engine can run by itself.  It can run in complete electric mode.  It can run combined.  How it combines power is a crazy achievement to make the most efficient car ever.  The Ferrari is F1 to the extreme.  McLaren is similar, but had a HUGE focus on it's awesome hydraulic cross linking suspension and active aero dynamics.

I guess when two of the players come from F1 backgrounds, there's bound to be some similarity there.  But they're only making a handful of these cars a year.  There's a lot of variety in the super car range.  The Aventador is different from turbo or GT3 911s, R8s, Vipers, Corvette ZR1s, etc.

[Cookie Monster]

Since I'll never get to drive any of the 3 crazy cars (Laferrari, P1, 918), I have to say on paper they look very similar. Crazy engine with some sort of hybrid setup.

I kinda agree with Sporty on this one. I definitely don't think those cars will be boring to drive or that they aren't supercars, but to me they aren't something I'd like to hang up on my wall and drool over like the F40 or Miura. Something about these new supercars just doesn't do it for me. The last supercars that I really, really wanted were the Zonda and CCX. I guess if I wanted a new supercar now, I'd get the Noble M600, but even that doesn't get me as excited as the old M12 GTO 3R did.

I'm kind of losing interest in the new generation of supercars tbh.

[SVT666]

FWIW, every auto journalist that has driven the pre-production 918s say it's weird.  Very strange sensations.  Go watch Chris Harris' video.  Hopefully Porsche takes the strangeness out of it for production. 

The newest crop of hypercars are unbelievable and I really wonder where they go from here.  I mean where CAN they go?  I can't wait to see track times for these cars, because tehy're going to obliterate everything that came before them.  They truly are impressive machines.....but, I don't want one.  I would rather have an Audi R8 V8, Cayman S, or Jaguar F-Type than any of them.

[SVT666]

Since I'll never get to drive any of the 3 crazy cars (Laferrari, P1, 918), I have to say on paper they look very similar. Crazy engine with some sort of hybrid setup.

I kinda agree with Sporty on this one. I definitely don't think those cars will be boring to drive or that they aren't supercars, but to me they aren't something I'd like to hang up on my wall and drool over like the F40 or Miura. Something about these new supercars just doesn't do it for me. The last supercars that I really, really wanted were the Zonda and CCX. I guess if I wanted a new supercar now, I'd get the Noble M600, but even that doesn't get me as excited as the old M12 GTO 3R did.

I'm kind of losing interest in the new generation of supercars tbh.

Ever since the power levels started going over 700 hp, I've started losing interest in them....and that makes me an unthusiast according to the BRZ driver.

[Cookie Monster]

Ever since the power levels started going over 700 hp, I've started losing interest in them....and that makes me an unthusiast according to the BRZ driver.

I know you're not talking about me, but the only thing I had an issue with was that you said they'd be boring on the street, which I don't think they'll be. I just don't really like them, regardless.

I'm kind of becoming more and more interested in Caterhams. I'd rather have that low power, featherweight combo than the ridiculous power of these super cars.

[Soup DeVille]

Supercars are for most of us adolescent fantasies. Its perfect normal for adolescent fantasies to seem less appealing as you become more of an adult.

[Raza]

Supercars are for most of us adolescent fantasies. Its perfect normal for adolescent fantasies to seem less appealing as you become more of an adult.

But at the same time, I want a car like the Daytona more than ever. 

[Rupert]

Supercars haven't really appealed to me since before the Enzo. One the Veyron hit 315243 MPH, and I realized that I was unlikely to ever go that fast on the ground myself, I pretty much lost interest entirely.

[SVT666]

Supercars haven't really appealed to me since before the Enzo. One the Veyron hit 315243 MPH, and I realized that I was unlikely to ever go that fast on the ground myself, I pretty much lost interest entirely.

And there is only one track on the planet where the Veyron can hit Vmax.

[12,000 RPM]

Supercars are for most of us adolescent fantasies. Its perfect normal for adolescent fantasies to seem less appealing as you become more of an adult.

Naw I still have wet dreams about cars like the F1 & F40.

I guess that's where we differ.  I view all three to be pretty distinct.  It's a mad rush to combine lightweight savings, with some sort of way to store power.  The fact the engineering kind of converged just gives credit to the design IMO.  Porsche has a very Germanic approach.  The engine can run by itself.  It can run in complete electric mode.  It can run combined.  How it combines power is a crazy achievement to make the most efficient car ever.  The Ferrari is F1 to the extreme.  McLaren is similar, but had a HUGE focus on it's awesome hydraulic cross linking suspension and active aero dynamics.

These distinctions are only important to geeks and engineers. At the end of the day they are all mid engine hybrids. Much more similar than say, the F40, 959, Countach and F1 by any metrics- performance, design, objective, philosophy etc. It's like they were bound by rules of a racing class. But the rules came from bean counters, regulators and focus groups. For example the P1's cross link suspension only makes sense as it is a spin off of the MP4-12C which already had that technology. That's a beancounter's delight presented as an innovation.

I guess when two of the players come from F1 backgrounds, there's bound to be some similarity there.  But they're only making a handful of these cars a year.  There's a lot of variety in the super car range.  The Aventador is different from turbo or GT3 911s, R8s, Vipers, Corvette ZR1s, etc.

In that second tier I suppose, but even then there's homogeneity... Porsche made the 911 Turbo a RR GT-R when the GT-R layeth the performance figure smacketh downeth... ZR1 & Viper put down exactly the same numbers... etc...

In any case these companies have all been around for a while, all been involved in racing from day 1 and have made distinctive flagships before. Something has changed and the fact that these companies all basically came up with the same thing in their respective "vacuums" speaks to that.

[12,000 RPM]

I know you're not talking about me, but the only thing I had an issue with was that you said they'd be boring on the street, which I don't think they'll be. I just don't really like them, regardless.

I'm kind of becoming more and more interested in Caterhams. I'd rather have that low power, featherweight combo than the ridiculous power of these super cars.

Yea I used to hate cars like the Cateram and Ariel Atom simply because I thought they were kind of ugly. But now I see beauty in their simplicity. I hope that is where performance cars are headed, honestly.

[Raza]

Yea I used to hate cars like the Cateram and Ariel Atom simply because I thought they were kind of ugly. But now I see beauty in their simplicity. I hope that is where performance cars are headed, honestly.

Cars like that will be banned when we're all in autonomobiles.

[Rich]

I fell out of interest in supercars about the time the F-50 came out.  I was a massive fan of the F-40 back in the day... then it kinda waned from there.  At that point the pony cars peaked my interest until about 2003 when I started falling for small, lightweight cars.

[S204STi]

Yeah, I mean who would want a new Lambo when a clapped out Honda *feels* fast?

[NomisR]

feels fast > going fast.

[12,000 RPM]

Yeah, I mean who would want a new Lambo when a clapped out Honda *feels* fast?

This has nothing to do with anything said in this thread and isn't an accurate depiction of anything implied here. You get a participation medal for trying though.

[Onslaught]

Modern supercars are like military jets for me. I know an F-22 will blow the shit out of anything in the 60's-80's but it really it's something I like to look at all that much. I'm much more a fan of the stuff made a long time ago like the F-105 or F-4. So I know a modern cars are much "better" then the old ones but I like the 355 or F-40 way more then anything made today.

[S204STi]

This has nothing to do with anything said in this thread and isn't an accurate depiction of anything implied here. You get a participation medal for trying though.

umad

[S204STi]

It actually has everything to do with the mindset behind posting this.  You're an automotive Luddite, progress and/or speed scares, you admit it.

[Cookie Monster]

It actually has everything to do with the mindset behind posting this.  You're an automotive Luddite, progress and/or speed scares, you admit it.

I think it's more of the fact that all cars are progressing to the same thing is what his point is. Which I do agree with.

[12,000 RPM]

It actually has everything to do with the mindset behind posting this.  You're an automotive Luddite, progress and/or speed scares, you admit it.

Naw, not at all actually. Lol @ me being scared of speed. And I have been a vocal proponent for many technologies- ask Raza. I will give you a gold star in addition to your medal for the extra effort though, you are going the extra mile.

[S204STi]

Naw, not at all actually. Lol @ me being scared of speed. And I have been a vocal proponent for many technologies- ask Raza. I will give you a gold star in addition to your medal for the extra effort though, you are going the extra mile.

StillMAD

Yeah, progress is such a problem in the automotive industry.  Having more good options to choose from is terrible.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm even on a car forum anymore.

[S204STi]

SPEED > SPEED