Lebowski's New Car Thread

[Lebowski]

My truck is now about 6 years old, so it's time to get a new car.  Time frame is sometime in December (Dec 1 is bonus day so sometime after that).  

What I'm looking for: A 4-door sedan with a reasonable balance between luxury and sport.  I'd prefer a manual, but if I fall in love with a car that is only offered with an auto I can live with that.  I plan to get something pretty well loaded, including Nav and satellite radio.  Price range is tentatively $30 to $40k, could possibly move up slightly depending on my bonus.  I know that's a big range but there is somewhat of a disparity between what I can afford and what I think I should spend (i.e. even if I can afford $45k, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be smarter to spend less than that and save the difference).  So, I'm focusing on value for the dollar, I'm not just going to get the absolute best, most expensive car I can afford.

Any comments are welcome, particularly from people who own or have experience with any of the cars below.  And don't say "test drive them all and make your own decision".  Of course I'm going to test drive everything and of course I'm going to make my own decision, I'm just looking for feedback/opinions here.

What I'm considering:

Acura TSX: Best value out there IMO.  Pros:  Comes totally loaded for $29k, looks good inside and out.  Cons:  Probably the most boring car I'm looking at, FWD, small engine.  Priced as I'd want it about $29k.  Base TSX (which is loaded) plus nav system.

Acura TL: Similar story to the TSX, I like the interior somewhat better than the TSX, but it's a little pricey for a FWD car.  

Infiniti G35: I don't love the exterior styling and the interior is among the worst I'm considering.  However, the more I think about it the more the G35 makes sense.  298 hp and RWD are hard to argue with.  The G35 is probably my top choice right now.  Priced as I'd want it $37k (includes destimation of $650).  Price is for G35 6 speed manual (includes sport suspension and 18 inch wheels), premium package (6 disc CD changer, sunroof, bluetooth, yada yada yada), nav system, satellite radio.

Audi A4: I like the exterior styling a lot, although I don't like the fact that Audi redesigns the A4 so often (is this going to be the "old" body style 2 years from now?)  I'd get it with AWD.  Pros are good styling, great interior.  Cons are cramped back seat, gets pricey quick once you start adding on options, especially AWD, and I've heard Audi's aren't reliable (not trying to start a Japanese vs. Germans flame war, but my bias is that the Japanese cars listed above are probably the more reliable).  Priced as I'd want it about $39k, includes Audi A4 Quattro 6 speed manual, leather (sunroof pckg), premium and tech packages, nav, satellite radio, sport suspension (but does not include the $3k "s line" sport package, which is a ripoff IMO).

3-Series: I'll put it bluntly - I think the 3-series is grossly overpriced.  Is the 330i a better car than a G35?  Probably.  Is it so much better as to warrant a $44k price tag vs. a comparably equipped G35 at more like $36k?  Highly unlikely.  I will at least give the 3-series a test drive, but it will really have to blow me away to convince me it's worth the money.

Lexus IS350: I just built online, came to ~$39,500, including 18 inch wheels, nav, backup camera (comes w/ the nav, I wouldn't get it otherwise), bluetooth, 13 speaker sound system w/ CD changer.  Definately worth a look.  Biggest negative is lack of a manual, but if I fall in love with the car that's not a dealbreaker.  Also, reviews have said it's disconnected from the road.  I'll have to test drive.

Other possibilities/wildcards:

Infiniti M35/M45: I love these cars, but my bonus would have to really surprise on the upside to warrant spending that much.

Acura RL: I wouldn't consider it at MSRP (I'd rather get the M at that price), but someone on C&D recently said '05s are going for as low as $40k.  At $40k, the RL is at least worth a look, IMO.

Corvette: Yeah, I know, it has nothing to do with anything else on the list, and I know I said I wanted a 4-door sedan (that's the practical thing to do).  But, I'll admit, the thought has entered my mind.  I'm 25 and single and realistically could live without 4-doors.  Any thoughts with how livable the vette is as a daily driver?

G35 coupe: Similar to above, it's not a 4-door but the thought has entered my mind.  Would have to really impress on a test drive compared to the sedan.

One final note:  As I test drive cars, I'll edit this original post with additional comments so people don't have to scroll through an entire topic to see them (I'll also make a post noting it so you won't have to constantly re-read this post).

[Raza]

The Vette is incredibly liveable as a daily driver (yes, this is the person looking at a Lotus Elise, but I know people who drive one everyday.  They're rather civil, actually).

Best value for money on the market at which you're looking is the G35 sedan 6 speed, hands down.  But, it's not the best car, that is the 330i.

If I were you, I'd look at the RX-8.  I wrote a quasi-review in my thread in Fastlane, if you want to read it.  

[ifcar]

I'd give the Volvo S40 and Lincoln LS a look in addition to your current list. And I don't see the 330i as worth the extra money over the 325i anymore, I'd consider the less-expensive 3-Series first.

[Raza]

The S40 T5 AWD can become a very pricey proposition, and though the Lincoln LS is a good car, it's not nearly as exciting as the other cars in the market segment.  I really like the LS myself, though I wish the V8 was offered with a manual.

[ifcar]

The LS is very underrated IMO. It's no 3-Series, but I'd say it drives better than a G35. And he did say that an automatic would be all right if he really liked the rest of the car. The LS is a nice car if you bother to look at it, and most people just don't.

And the S40 isn't really all that expensive, even with AWD, against an A4 or 3-Series.  

[Raza]

The LS is very underrated IMO. It's no 3-Series, but I'd say it drives better than a G35.

And he did say that an automatic would be all right if he really liked the rest of the car. The LS is a nice car if you bother to look at it, and most people just don't.

Oh, I know.  I was in the passenger seat of one on a small track, with a pretty good driver at the wheel.  It is quite a car.

Another oddball choice, what about a Charger RT?

[850CSi]

You very well know what I'm going to say.

Personally, 0-60 in the mid-6s is fast enough for me...

[Raza]

You very well know what I'm going to say.

Personally, 0-60 in the mid-6s is fast enough for me...

Troll.

RX-8s are faster, cheaper, and more fun to drive than a 325i, and you don't get that "Well I drive a BMW so I'm better than you are, so give me my soy latte!" feeling that Bimmer and Audi drivers (like SJZ3) do.  

:P  

[Raghavan]

If you're going to consider a Vette, i'd probably look into that Soltice Mallet conversion for 40k.

[Lebowski]

If you're going to consider a Vette, i'd probably look into that Soltice Mallet conversion for 40k.

After driving around in a Roush for 4 years, I'm sticking with production vehicles.  I've had no major problems, but a multitude of very minor problems that have collectively amounted to more of a pain in the ass than I want to deal with.

[Lebowski]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I just got back from test driving a G35 sedan, 330i, and Audi A4.  The G35 and 330 were both autos (didn't have any manuals on the lot), and the A4 was a manual.

I have to be honest - I was underwhelmed by the bimmer.  Don't get me wrong, it's a great car, but because of it's price premium vs. the G35 I felt like it had to really blow my socks off to be worth my money, and it didn't.  It certainly drives very well, and maybe if I had a weekend to play with it on a racetrack I'd notice how it differentiates itself vs. the G35, but based on the 10-15 minute test drive it didn't (differentiate itself).  Also, compared to the A4, the bimmer's interior looked cheap.  If it was a less expensive car, I'd let that slide (which BTW is why I let it slide on the G35), but at $44k nicely equipped I feel like I shouldn't have to make any compromises.

The G35 performed very well.  The interior wasn't great, but wasn't bad either (it's just as good as the bimmer if not better, IMO) and given the overall value of the car I'm willing to tolerate the less than perfect interior.  It actually surprised me by how well it handled, the sales woman encouraged me to really drive aggressively and I was impressed.  I'd say after the test drive that the G35 remains my top choice at this point.

The A4 (2.0T quattro manual) also performed very well, although I didn't get to push it as hard as I pushed the G35.  I was impressed with how smooth the transmission was (but again I didn't get to compare it to a G35 or 3-series manual).  I want a manual in my next car (the prelude I had before the truck had one and I loved it), but I haven't driven a manual in a very long time and I was somewhat afraid I'd struggle to get used to it, but the A4 manual was extremely easy to drive, I felt completely comfortable driving it almost immediately.  I also was highly impressed with the A4 interior.  What I didn't like about the A4, and I alluded to this before, is how the options are packaged and how quickly the price increases as you add options.  It turns out, in order to get the Nav system, you need to get the Premium package, plus the "technology" package and a bunch of other shit I don't need.  Also, the saleswoman had a hard time finding a car with the options I want (I don't really care at this point since I'm several weeks away from buying, I was just there to get an idea if I liked the car today), but in the end she found a car that did NOT have Nav system and still came out to $38k.  $38k for a 2.0 liter w/o nav seems pricey to me, I'm definately going to have to find a better deal than that if I'm going to seriously consider the A4.

[850CSi]

You very well know what I'm going to say.

Personally, 0-60 in the mid-6s is fast enough for me...

Troll.

RX-8s are faster, cheaper, and more fun to drive than a 325i, and you don't get that "Well I drive a BMW so I'm better than you are, so give me my soy latte!" feeling that Bimmer and Audi drivers (like SJZ3) do.  

:P

Damn right I'm a troll.

Because I've been in and driven a lot of really nice cars. And nothing fit me [personally] better than the 325i.

[Lebowski]

I just went to audiusa.com to see if I had any better luck configuring the car as I wanted it.  It came out to $39,435!  Seems a bit pricey.  That includes:

A4 2.0T Quattro 6 speed manual
Leather seats (which requires "sunroof package")
$750 for metallic paint
Premium Package (you have to get it to add on anything else I want)
Technology Package (again it's required for nav even though I don't really need anything included in the package)
Bose sound system w/ satellite radio
Nav
Sport suspension

It does not include the "S Line" sport package, which would add another $3k.

I think the A4 just eliminated itself from the running.  :angry:

The annoying thing is, it's not the cost of the stuff I actually want that drove the price up.  It's all the other shit that's required to get what I want.  I would be perfectly willing to go without the sunroof, everything in the "Premium" package except the wheels, everything in the "Technology" package (although bluetooth is nice).  Audi just lost a potential customer because of the way they package their options.


:blink:  :blink:  :blink:

[ifcar]

I'll run the S40 T5 FWD and AWD when I have some time, but for now I'd just like to point out that the Lincoln LS V8 is less than that, according to CarsDirect.  

[mazda6er]

I just went to audiusa.com to see if I had any better luck configuring the car as I wanted it.  It came out to $39,435!  Seems a bit pricey.  That includes:

A4 2.0T Quattro 6 speed manual
Leather seats (which requires "sunroof package")
$750 for metallic paint
Premium Package (you have to get it to add on anything else I want)
Technology Package (again it's required for nav even though I don't really need anything included in the package)
Bose sound system w/ satellite radio
Nav
Sport suspension

It does not include the "S Line" sport package, which would add another $3k.

I think the A4 just eliminated itself from the running.  :angry:

The annoying thing is, it's not the cost of the stuff I actually want that drove the price up.  It's all the other shit that's required to get what I want.  I would be perfectly willing to go without the sunroof, everything in the "Premium" package except the wheels, everything in the "Technology" package (although bluetooth is nice).  Audi just lost a potential customer because of the way they package their options.


:blink:  :blink:  :blink:

Eliminate Nav from your criteria (just for the sake of argument) and that'll save you a bundle on the Audi.

[Raghavan]

Get the G35, and you'll be happy.

[BMWDave]

The LS is very underrated IMO. It's no 3-Series, but I'd say it drives better than a G35. And he did say that an automatic would be all right if he really liked the rest of the car. The LS is a nice car if you bother to look at it, and most people just don't.

And the S40 isn't really all that expensive, even with AWD, against an A4 or 3-Series.

My friend knows someone who has a manual LS.  It only came with the V6, (its actually faster than an auto V8), and its uber rare.  I dont know if they sell it anymore, but you could probably get it for dirt cheap.

I'd for sure look at a 325i, I think you might be able to get one in the 36K pricerange.

Also, Acura TLs arent as expensive as you might think.  I believe the only major option is a Nav system, and you can get a manual at no extra charge, IIRC.

[Catman]

If you were in the snow belt I'd lean toward the Acura TL and the G35X and maybe the Audi.  But since you're in Florida, RWD is the way to go.  I'm going to have to recommend the G35.  It's just too hard to beat the value IMO.  When our Maxima move out to pasture I'm definately looking seriously at a G35X.

[mazda6er]

IS?

[TBR]

Have you considered cars like the Legacy GT Limited and Mazdaspeed 6?

[Lebowski]

IS?

Yes, I plan on test driving the IS at some point.

[Lebowski]

Have you considered cars like the Legacy GT Limited and Mazdaspeed 6?

Not really.  I realize they're both nice, but I'm looking for something with more luxury as well as sportiness.

[Raghavan]

Used CTS-V.

[Lebowski]

If you were in the snow belt I'd lean toward the Acura TL and the G35X and maybe the Audi.? But since you're in Florida, RWD is the way to go.? I'm going to have to recommend the G35.? It's just too hard to beat the value IMO.? When our Maxima move out to pasture I'm definately looking seriously at a G35X.

That's pretty much identical to my line of thinking right now.  Cars like the TL and even A4 look competitive next to the G35 until you stop and think about how much the 298hp, RWD combo is worth.  TL is a compromise because of FWD, the A4 is a lot of money for a 2.0 4 cylinder plus I have to shell out extra for AWD, not because I want AWD, but because I don't want FWD.

As far as value for the money goes, the G35 and the TSX are the clear winners.  From there it's a matter of how much car you want, how much you're willing to spend.  

I'll try and make it out for a test drive of the TSX, TL, and Lexus IS (are they on lots yet?) next Saturday, I'm too swamped with work related stuff tomorrow.

[Lebowski]

Question:  As I said earlier, the A4 I tested was a manual and both the G35 and 330 were autos.  I really liked the feel of the A4's manual but obviously don't have anything to compare it against.  Has anyone here driven the G35 manual?  How is it?

[Raghavan]

Question:  As I said earlier, the A4 I tested was a manual and both the G35 and 330 were autos.  I really liked the feel of the A4's manual but obviously don't have anything to compare it against.  Has anyone here driven the G35 manual?  How is it?

You don't have any other dealerships to go and test drive a manual?

[Lebowski]

Sidebar quesion:  XM vs. Sirius satellite radio?  Most offer both, they're usually the same price (at least on the car, not sure about the monthly service fee).  Anybody have any opinions regarding which has the best content?  Does one have a better signal (seems unlikely but worth asking)?

[Raghavan]

Used CTS-V.

..?

[Lebowski]

About the other cars mentioned:

Lincoln LS: It's ok, but not really my cup of tea.  I'll agree it's underrated, but it's just not for me.

S40 T5 AWD:  I just priced it, $34,545, doesn't include nav.  Reasonable price, but I'm just not a volvo guy.  It might be worth a test drive if I get the time, though.

CTS-V: No.  I don't like the CTS.  In fact, call me a troll, call me biased, but I really don't like any domestic luxury cars.  I'll admit some of them look good, some of them perform well, some have nice features, but when it comes down to it they all have the same hard plastic and tacky looking fake wood that drives me nuts.

EDIT, for Raza:

Ok, I'll think about the RX-8.  It hasn't officially made my list of options yet but I'll ponder the idea.  FYI, my preference for 4-doors is more for the practicality than for insurance savings.

Charger R/T (screw that, Charger SRT8!, throw the magnum and 300 in the same lot):  I have mixed feelings about these cars.  On the one hand, 425hp for the price is unbelievable.  On the other, they still have the cheesy hard plastic that drives me nuts about most domestics, including my truck.  Plus, the styling looks good now, but I just have a feeling that they won't age well.  When I was 18-20, I'd probably go nuts over all three of those cars.  But now, I don't know, something like a Charger SRT-8 just doesn't seem "grown up" or "professional" or whatever word you want to use, to me, it looks like a car an 18 year old would pick out.   I know that sounds stupid though.

[Raza]

Yeah, the 3.2 and the 2.0T come out very similarly priced at higher levels.

What are your thoughts on the RX-8?  It is a 4 door, so your insurance won't be too bad.