Mazda fighting the good fight, confirms 16X & new rotary car

[12,000 RPM]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/16/mazda-16x-rotary-engine-two-years-away-all-new-model/

We last reported on Mazda's next-generation rotary engine project in June of 2012 when the automaker built its last Renesis-powered RX-8, but rumors of this new engine's development had been around way before that final car left the production line in Japan, last year.

We now have enthusiastic confirmation that this next-gen rotary engine is really and truly going forward. It is still referred to as 16X and has several priorities. First is to lower fuel consumption compared to the RX-8's engine, while still making gains in terms of performance. The second is to reduce the burning of oil that was happening at the highest revs. And the third and final priority, and perhaps most key for enthusiasts, is to give the powertrain a big torque upgrade.

What we were told by a Mazda USA insider (while we are all here together at the festivities in Monterey) is that the first application of the new 16X engine will be happening in two years' time in an as yet undisclosed new model. Oh, the mind races to our eternal Mazda wish list...

How to solve the failings of the Renesis engine that preceded all of this? "The key to both higher torque and better fuel consumption," said the insider, "is creating a longer stroke engine." But we're talking a rotary engine with the fat-triangle rotor and toroidal cam, so how does one determine the way to call this long-stroke or not? "By the path of travel within the combustion space dictated by the engineers," says Mr. Insider.

What this means for the relative engine capacity and blueprint of the 16X engine is yet to be shown. Longer stroke engines can create greater torque and do so at lower revs. This, it is thought, is what will drastically improve fuel efficiency, emissions, and oil abuse in the 16X.

This is good news and confirmation for us. Having a Wankel engine in the tech mix makes engine discussion so much more interesting, plus we have always liked the drive experience. Good to know they're not dumping this jewel in the Mazda brand crown.

[r0tor]

Worthless speculation that is no better then info from 4 years ago

And oil is not burned in a rotary engine, it is injected...

[MX793]

Worthless speculation that is no better then info from 4 years ago

And oil is not burned in a rotary engine, it is injected...

And then combusted and expelled with the exhaust gasses...

[Onslaught]

I have no doubt they're still working on it. That motor saved the company at one time and it's in Mazda's DNA. I'm not sure however if it will ever come back in the way that I'd hope. I mean Audi and others are working on them to see if using them as generators to charge future cars will work. But that's not what I've got in mind when I think of a rotary car. 

[12,000 RPM]

And then combusted and expelled with the exhaust gasses...

Just don't call it burning.

[Soup DeVille]

Worthless speculation that is no better then info from 4 years ago

And oil is not burned in a rotary engine, it is injected...

Into the combustion chambers, where it is burned.

[r0tor]

If it immediately burned, it wouldnt lubricate too well...

[Soup DeVille]

If it immediately burned, it wouldnt lubricate too well...

If it didn't burn eventually, it would fill up combustion chambers, cause hydraulic lock and make the engine explode.

[r0tor]

Ok, we start with the sentence " The second is to reduce the burning of oil that was happening at the highest revs."

It injects (more like dribbles) a few drops of oil on the apex seals at all rpms, not just high rpms.  The hope is for the oil to lubricate and cool the seals - not burn instantly.  It is not "burning oil" in a traditional sense like my coworkers Yukon with fucked up piston rings.

[r0tor]

If it didn't burn eventually, it would fill up combustion chambers, cause hydraulic lock and make the engine explode.

Next to impossible to hydro lock a rotary engine.  The seals are all spring loaded and would bypass the liquid into your oil  and or fling it out the exhaust port.

[MX793]

Ok, we start with the sentence " The second is to reduce the burning of oil that was happening at the highest revs."

It injects (more like dribbles) a few drops of oil on the apex seals at all rpms, not just high rpms.  The hope is for the oil to lubricate and cool the seals - not burn instantly.  It is not "burning oil" in a traditional sense like my coworkers Yukon with fucked up piston rings.

They "burn" oil in the same sense that a 2-stroke that runs on pre-mix (or that has oil injection, as I've owned in the past) does.

[r0tor]

Similar, but different

[12,000 RPM]

Ok, we start with the sentence " The second is to reduce the burning of oil that was happening at the highest revs."

It injects (more like dribbles) a few drops of oil on the apex seals at all rpms, not just high rpms.  The hope is for the oil to lubricate and cool the seals - not burn instantly.  It is not "burning oil" in a traditional sense like my coworkers Yukon with fucked up piston rings.

Nobody said it was, we dont even know your coworker

But it is designed to burn oil... more oil than a car with pistons 

[Onslaught]

Nobody said it was, we dont even know your coworker

But it is designed to burn oil... more oil than a car with pistons 

Well unless you own some Audi's or VW's and then the dealers will tell you that it's normal for their cars to burn almost a quart of oil.


I think we're getting off the important part here arguing about wording. How about Rotary's use more oil then normal piston engines? And that's ok because if you can't afford an extra quart of oil between changes then perhaps you can't afford a sports car in the first place.

[Soup DeVille]

Next to impossible to hydro lock a rotary engine.  The seals are all spring loaded and would bypass the liquid into your oil  and or fling it out the exhaust port.

If it can create compression, it can be hydro locked.

[r0tor]

If it can create compression, it can be hydro locked.

The method for deflooding a rotary engine actually involves pouring fluid into the chambers

[Soup DeVille]

The method for deflooding a rotary engine actually involves pouring fluid into the chambers

Not at 5000 RPM, it doesnt

[GoCougs]

Jesus, why bother? It's interesting but seems the experiment has long run its course. The IC reciprocating engine is simply a better engine.

[Onslaught]

Jesus, why bother? It's interesting but seems the experiment has long run its course. The IC reciprocating engine is simply a better engine.

I doubt they would make an interesting piston engine for an MX-7. It's probably be some lame ass turbo 4 banger like the the MS3 and not a nice, smooth V6. And I'd rather have a rotary any day of the week over a piss poor 4 cylinder car.

Unless you've owned one then I doubt most people get the rotary and why it's loved. And it's one of those things you "get" or just don't. But I for one have always liked the fact that you could buy something different out there. It drives and sounds like
nothing else on the road. And it's not like Mazda's really all that known for making world class piston engines anyway.

I hope Mazda brings back the RX-7 but I'm not holding my breath. In todays age it will be darn difficult.

[12,000 RPM]

The IC reciprocating engine is simply a better engine.

That cant be said for sure. Its better now and benefits from every other manufacturer pouring resources into it. But theres no way you can say the rotary engine's potential has been fully tapped, or tapped to the degree that the recip engine has. The real question is whether its worth Mazda to invest such resources into; as much as I love an underdog and the rotary concept I would say no.

[Onslaught]

Right now I'm not sure if it's the best time. Perhaps if the CX-5, 6 and new 3 sell well enough that they have the cash to pump into it then why not? A piston engine main Mazda sports cars seems wrong.

[hotrodalex]

I just want a new rotary so I can put it in something else.

[12,000 RPM]

I just want a new rotary so I can put it in something else.

And an LSx in it

[hotrodalex]

And an LSx in it

I really want to build a Factory Five hot rod kit and put a rotary in it. Right now I'd go with a turbo 13b, but if the 16x comes out I'd probably use that.

[Onslaught]

I always thought it be funny to put a 20B into a factory five cobra kit and pull up next to the others with ford 5.0's in them at the auto shows here. Probably make some of them chase me off.

[12,000 RPM]

You would have to put it on some JDM wheels too... it would be a real mess... or masterpiece

[Raza]

Well unless you own some Audi's or VW's and then the dealers will tell you that it's normal for their cars to burn almost a quart of oil.


I think we're getting off the important part here arguing about wording. How about Rotary's use more oil then normal piston engines? And that's ok because if you can't afford an extra quart of oil between changes then perhaps you can't afford a sports car in the first place.

What sports car had a rotary?

[Onslaught]

What sports car had a rotary?

I don't give two rats shits about sports car definitions. An RX-7 is a sports car in my book. With or without an open top and all that other dumb shit.

[Soup DeVille]

What sports car had a rotary?

787B

[Onslaught]

RX792P or the furai.


If it MUST be a convertible then the FC had that too.