The end of prestige and interesting cars as we know it?

[Onslaught]

BMW's lost me when they started pumping engine sounds into the car with the radio. I find that pathetic. Those cars could have a self cleaning  dick sucking machine in the driver seat and I'd still not like it all that much.

[Rupert]

I like that you specifies a self-cleaning dick sucking machine.

[Rupert]

We are getting to where, in Europe at least, the only naturally aspirated cars will be exotics and supercars. That's just not acceptable to me.

The saving grace on that end is Europe is a dead market, and the pockets of growth are not so hard up about emissions as them. But the idea of something like a Mustang with nothing but a turbo 4 with varying states of tune or a snub nosed M3 with a tri turbo inline 6 is pretty fucking depressing IMO. And that's what it seems like the Eurocrats are pushing for.

I give you the Mustang, which of course will never happen, but a tri-turbo I6 would be awesome!

IMO, M3s should have I6s, anyway.

[12,000 RPM]

Ooo I meant tri turbo I3. Maybe thats what set MCM off

[Raza]

No

Im pretty sure in the past you acknowledged your preference for the I6's sound and character. At the minimum definitely the sound... the quote was something like "I didnt realize what the big deal was until I drove the car" or something like that.

Plus it's not just the engines. It's the regulations, and it's the compensation for the decline in design and engine character with needless mindless unservicable out of warranty technology.

I'm still acknowledging my preference for the 3.0L I6's sound, feel, and character.  I was saying my turbo I4s were better than my V6.

[Raza]

The "Hairdresser's Special" Z3 carried on the "purity" of the M3?  WTF?!?!?

Put the crack pipe down, son.

The Z3 was anything but a hairdresser's car.  Floppy chassis and old rear suspension meant the thing was really a handful when it had power.  Sure, you could buy the poverty-spec 1.9, but overall, while the Z3 was not really a good car, it was indeed a hairy animal. 

[SVT666]

Inline 4s (turbo or not) are uninteresting to me, and not appropriate in entry lux or luxury cars.  I6, V6's, and V8's have more character and better sound.  But, I think his other points about regulations are right on the money.  Turbo 4 pots are going to be the top of the line engine in most cars because of government regulations.  Those engines are being used because they can game the EPA and Euro tests when in reality they provide no tangible benefits over a V6 and are much more expensive to replace the inevitable failed turbo.

Also, cars are fucking monstrous now because of regulations.  Most noticeably in cowl height and overall height.  I'm finding that new cars aren't all that interesting to me anymore because of powertrains and how ugly they're getting (mostly due to their immense height).  I mean think about it.  The roof on a Toyota RAV4 is just 4" higher than on the Taurus...a fucking sedan.  A lot of cars have to have 18"-20" wheels just so the wheels don't look tiny. 

Between regulations making cars uglier and bigger, regulations forcing manufacturers into small turbo 4s, and manufacturers ditching manual trannies, things are definitely beginning to go downhill.  I think 2012-2013 will go down as the peak in this automotive era. 

[Rupert]

Ooo I meant tri turbo I3. Maybe thats what set MCM off

That's pretty cool, too.

Remember the Mustang SVO? That was a really cool turbo 4 car.

[Vinsanity]

I think 2012-2013 will go down as the peak in this automotive era. 

I share many of the same concerns, and don't care for turbo-4's myself, but I wouldn't be so pessimistic just yet. 2014 is the year of the C7 Stingray and 991 GT3. Next year we get a Mustang with a proper rear suspension and the 5.0 Coyote motor. We still have a few good years left to relish.

[2o6]

I think you guys are being stupid.

[SVT666]

You lust after the Chevy Sonic, so your opinion doesn't count.

[ifcar]

Inline 4s (turbo or not) are uninteresting to me, and not appropriate in entry lux or luxury cars.  I6, V6's, and V8's have more character and better sound.  But, I think his other points about regulations are right on the money.  Turbo 4 pots are going to be the top of the line engine in most cars because of government regulations.  Those engines are being used because they can game the EPA and Euro tests when in reality they provide no tangible benefits over a V6 and are much more expensive to replace the inevitable failed turbo.

Also, cars are fucking monstrous now because of regulations.  Most noticeably in cowl height and overall height.  I'm finding that new cars aren't all that interesting to me anymore because of powertrains and how ugly they're getting (mostly due to their immense height).  I mean think about it.  The roof on a Toyota RAV4 is just 4" higher than on the Taurus...a fucking sedan.  A lot of cars have to have 18"-20" wheels just so the wheels don't look tiny. 

Between regulations making cars uglier and bigger, regulations forcing manufacturers into small turbo 4s, and manufacturers ditching manual trannies, things are definitely beginning to go downhill.  I think 2012-2013 will go down as the peak in this automotive era. 

What was the regulation responsible for the Taurus being a bloated pig? It's entirely a style decision -- the car is the same underneath as it's been since 2005.

[12,000 RPM]

Look I do think right now is a pretty damn good time for enthusiasts, in some respects. The used car market is amazing. Porsche has really hit its stride. The low end of the market (Mustang, Miata, GTI, etc) has never been better. Like I said Europe is the source of the clampdown, but as far as volume goes Europe is fading further and further into irrelevance. But even outside of Europe, cars are getting heavier and uglier. V6s are turning to turbo 4s, 4 bangers are turning to 3s and in Europe even 2s. And I'm not even sure it's even worth it. I just read a review of the C7 where they said they got 36 MPG from it on the highway in V4 mode. Like, for real. A turbo 4 family sedan is happy to get slightly more than that in an EPA test. So cars are being overhauled and compromised to chase metrics that don't even mean much in the real world, many times.

[CALL_911]

Retarded

[SVT666]

Look I do think right now is a pretty damn good time for enthusiasts, in some respects. The used car market is amazing. Porsche has really hit its stride. The low end of the market (Mustang, Miata, GTI, etc) has never been better. Like I said Europe is the source of the clampdown, but as far as volume goes Europe is fading further and further into irrelevance. But even outside of Europe, cars are getting heavier and uglier. V6s are turning to turbo 4s, 4 bangers are turning to 3s and in Europe even 2s. And I'm not even sure it's even worth it. I just read a review of the C7 where they said they got 36 MPG from it on the highway in V4 mode. Like, for real. A turbo 4 family sedan is happy to get slightly more than that in an EPA test. So cars are being overhauled and compromised to chase metrics that don't even mean much in the real world, many times.

I agree.  Cars have never been better than they are right now, but I see cars starting to go downhill pretty fast in the last half of this decade as the ridiculous EPA requirements start kicking in.

[2o6]

You lust after the Chevy Sonic, so your opinion doesn't count.

Yes, the critically acclaimed for driving dynamics , Sonic.

[MrH]

Honestly, I feel that the death of an "interesting" car is directly related to the field of sensational, ignorant journalism.



Fuck, even today, a 60HP Fiesta is still faster and refined than a comparable model from 20 years ago. New cars are getting better every day.

A big plus fucking 1 to this man!

[SVT666]

I think all of you guys shitting on this article, will be agreeing with it in 10 years when cars will be completely ruined by all these regulations.

[Raza]

I agree.  Cars have never been better than they are right now, but I see cars starting to go downhill pretty fast in the last half of this decade as the ridiculous EPA requirements start kicking in.

There has been stagnation and backsliding.  The F30 is not as good to drive as the E90. The E86 is not nearly as good to drive as the E85.  The MR-2 Spyder, S2000, Sky, and Solstice don't exist and don't have successors. 

As cars, they are generally more comfortable, more reliable, and technologically advanced; to the layman, "better".  To the enthusiast, not so much.  But I'm not going to rest the downturn on the shoulders of cylinder counts. 

[MrH]

I think all of you guys shitting on this article, will be agreeing with it in 10 years when cars will be completely ruined by all these regulations.

I think the vast majority of you guys ripping on all new cars, haven't drove shit when it comes to things that are out on the market currently.  It's just the same old usual jawing based on a bunch of sensationalist journalist garbage you read, not actual experience.  Oh, and a dose of the usual romanticizing of the past.  Typical CarSPIN drivel.

[SVT666]

There has been stagnation and backsliding.  The F30 is not as good to drive as the E90. The E86 is not nearly as good to drive as the E85.  The MR-2 Spyder, S2000, Sky, and Solstice don't exist and don't have successors. 

As cars, they are generally more comfortable, more reliable, and technologically advanced; to the layman, "better".  To the enthusiast, not so much.  But I'm not going to rest the downturn on the shoulders of cylinder counts.

Not by themselves no.  The article never stated it was the only reason either.

[SVT666]

I think the vast majority of you guys ripping on all new cars, haven't drove shit when it comes to things that are out on the market currently.  It's just the same old usual jawing based on a bunch of sensationalist journalist garbage you read, not actual experience.  Oh, and a dose of the usual romanticizing of the past.  Typical CarSPIN drivel.

You couldn't be more wrong.  I have driven a lot of what's out there and that's part of the reason I mostly agree with this article.  Having said that, none of us are ripping on all new cars.  Some of my favourite cars ever built are on the market right now.  But when almost everything is going to be a 4 pot in the future, it's not exactly exciting.

[Raza]

Not by themselves no.  The article never stated it was the only reason either.

I'm on a lot of medication right now, don't have the attention span to read that much nonsense in one sitting.

[Eye of the Tiger]

fuor cilinders are god enjines

[Onslaught]

I like that you specifies a self-cleaning dick sucking machine.

That's very important. Shit will make a mess.

I never thought I'd be an old fart who hated everything new. And truth be told I don't "hate" everything new now in the automotive world. If you're buying a car to get you from point A to point B without any problems then today is the best we've ever had it. For most people now is a great time to buy a car. But for me I can only think of a handful of cars that do anything for me at all. And the problem is that many of them are way too expensive for an average guy like me. My choices are American muscle cars, BRZ or Miata really. And that's not much to pick from.

[Laconian]

If everything is X-by-wire with simulated tactile feedback and fake engine noise, why not just play a video game instead?

[12,000 RPM]

You couldn't be more wrong.  I have driven a lot of what's out there and that's part of the reason I mostly agree with this article.  Having said that, none of us are ripping on all new cars.  Some of my favourite cars ever built are on the market right now.  But when almost everything is going to be a 4 pot in the future, it's not exactly exciting.

Basically. It's like, "enjoy it while it lasts, cause the future's not looking too brite"

I'm not really bummed about luxury cars because I never really cared about them in the first place... but it's the trickle down that I'm worried about. Infiniti is supposedly gonna be partnering up with Mercedes for their next crop of cars and they already have an A-class rebadge in the works. The Q50 is a mess. What does that mean for the Z? Z4 is a trophy wife casualty. CHEAP quality high revving NA 4s are pretty much done.... there's just a lot of little shit that just doesn't look good.

[12,000 RPM]

If everything is X-by-wire with simulated tactile feedback and fake engine noise, why not just play a video game instead?

Here's an even more fun question. Video game makers do a lot of sound capturing for the cars in games. What are these "sound symposer" cars gonna sound like in games?

[MrH]

Basically. It's like, "enjoy it while it lasts, cause the future's not looking too brite"

I'm not really bummed about luxury cars because I never really cared about them in the first place... but it's the trickle down that I'm worried about. Infiniti is supposedly gonna be partnering up with Mercedes for their next crop of cars and they already have an A-class rebadge in the works. The Q50 is a mess. What does that mean for the Z? Z4 is a trophy wife casualty. CHEAP quality high revving NA 4s are pretty much done.... there's just a lot of little shit that just doesn't look good.

... And the A45 AMG is possibly the best driver's car Mercedes has ever made. NEXT!

[Onslaught]

... And the A45 AMG is possibly the best driver's car Mercedes has ever made. NEXT!

I could give a fuck less. I can't buy one and even if I could I wouldn't. My choices are only a Miata or BRZ right now. Good cars but not much of a selection.