The end of prestige and interesting cars as we know it?

[MrH]

I could give a fuck less. I can't buy one and even if I could I wouldn't. My choices are only a Miata or BRZ right now. Good cars but not much of a selection.

?
....wut.  He was talking about Q50's and Z4's.  Why did this conversation suddenly turn just towards cars you can afford new?

[12,000 RPM]

... And the A45 AMG is possibly the best driver's car Mercedes has ever made. NEXT!

You must not have heard about the 190E 2.3 16... or pretty much any of the AMG Black Series cars... hell even the last C63 wasn't bad

Hmmm... front heavy AWD hot hatch w/no engine note... or 3 series size sedan with RWD and a big honking V8... whatever floats your boat

[MrH]

You must not have heard about the 190E 2.3 16... or pretty much any of the AMG Black Series cars... hell even the last C63 wasn't bad

Hmmm... front heavy AWD hot hatch w/no engine note... or 3 series size sedan with RWD and a big honking V8... whatever floats your boat

I'll give you the 190E, but most black series cars seemed pretty awful and horribly overpriced.  Clarkson is about the only person who gave a damn about them.

[Colin]

I think the vast majority of you guys ripping on all new cars, haven't drove shit when it comes to things that are out on the market currently.  It's just the same old usual jawing based on a bunch of sensationalist journalist garbage you read, not actual experience.  Oh, and a dose of the usual romanticizing of the past.  Typical CarSPIN drivel.

Spot on, Mike!

With the odd exception, the current breed of so-called journalists are latter-day boy racers who either regurgitate mfr's PR bumf and/or are looking for sensationalist headlines that will sell copy. 

Although it is tempting to view the past through the proverbial rose tinted specs, the reality is that the latest models continue to evidence some very innovative and creative engineering solutions to the ever more sophisticated demands of buyers, and the world's legislators who (however misguided they may seem to be at times) are trying to make society "better".  I agree with the esteemed Steve Cropley (a journalist whom I do respect) when he asserts that there has never been a better time to be a car enthusiast than now.

[12,000 RPM]

I'll give you the 190E, but most black series cars seemed pretty awful and horribly overpriced.  Clarkson is about the only person who gave a damn about them.

The other problem with the A45 is what it's up against price wise. A45, or WRX STi/M135i and like 8K in your pocket? A45, or something like a used Cayman or M3? Its like 5-10K too much money.

[SVT666]

Spot on, Mike!

With the odd exception, the current breed of so-called journalists are latter-day boy racers who either regurgitate mfr's PR bumf and/or are looking for sensationalist headlines that will sell copy. 

Although it is tempting to view the past through the proverbial rose tinted specs, the reality is that the latest models continue to evidence some very innovative and creative engineering solutions to the ever more sophisticated demands of buyers, and the world's legislators who (however misguided they may seem to be at times) are trying to make society "better".  I agree with the esteemed Steve Cropley (a journalist whom I do respect) when he asserts that there has never been a better time to be a car enthusiast than now.

I agree with that.  But things are starting to take a turn for the worse and with exceptionally high fuel economy requirements coming in the next 10 years, I see it as inevitable.  Cars are peaking right now.  Some have already peaked and are not as good as the last version, some are peaking right now, and others will likely peak with the next generation.  I can't see them getting better when fleet fuel economy requirements are going sky high.

[12,000 RPM]

Im hearing something like Europe wants to set a 100g/km CO2 cap. A Miata does something like 181g/km. Wheres the rest gonna come from.

[Laconian]

Its going to come from hyper optimizing for the test regimen, making the cars have bizarre gearing and weird cylinder deactivation whatnot.

[MX793]

Its going to come from hyper optimizing for the test regimen, making the cars have bizarre gearing and weird cylinder deactivation whatnot.

...and electric hybrid powertrains.

[Colin]

For sure, the twin pressures of much better fuel consumption and reduced emissions are challenging the creative minds of many in the industry............ huge progress has been made in the latter in the last few years, whilst the former has been challenged by all the added weight that has been a consequence of the double hit of extra equipment (a lot of which frankly is probably unwanted by some buyers!) and safety systems (most of which are probably a good idea for the distracted drivers that abound!).  Based on what we have seen in recent years, I have little doubt that the industry will manage to hit the ever more challenging requirements put upon it.

Whilst I have to admit that the rather sonorous V10 that I drove for 4 years was rather nice (if a bit costly to keep in fuel!), and I do miss it, the supercharged V6 is not as bad a substitute as I had feared before I took delivery. And if you get to drive a 3 cylinder like the Ford 1 litre unit, it's not all bad, either.

[Rupert]

I agree with that.  But things are starting to take a turn for the worse and with exceptionally high fuel economy requirements coming in the next 10 years, I see it as inevitable.  Cars are peaking right now.  Some have already peaked and are not as good as the last version, some are peaking right now, and others will likely peak with the next generation.  I can't see them getting better when fleet fuel economy requirements are going sky high.

This just sounds like pessimistic doom and gloom to me. There's no real evidence of any of this that hasn't already happened, and there's no reason that the next generation of a car whose previous generation was better than the current generation wouldn't be even better than the previous generation. Unless all you care about is the cylinder count.

[12,000 RPM]

This just sounds like pessimistic doom and gloom to me. There's no real evidence of any of this that hasn't already happened, and there's no reason that the next generation of a car whose previous generation was better than the current generation wouldn't be even better than the previous generation. Unless all you care about is the cylinder count.

Not so sure about that.

Acura- TL & TSX are both worse than the versions they replaced, NSX is a pipe dream/tease
BMW- not going to offend folks sensibilities but some legitimate voices say there has been a decline
Honda- conversion to "green" company is complete... no more DOHC VTEC, no sports cars
Infiniti- Q name change makes no sense, Q50 ruined by electric steering
Mitsubishi- "in its last throes", pretty sure the EVO is dead and gone, THE MIRAGE
Nissan- whole line up is sad aside from the GT-R and Z. Maxima used to be a great car, Sentra had its fun variants etc all gone.
Volkswagen- Golf/GTI are good, but Jetta is duller, Passat is full blown American, CC platform is ~7 years old

Neutral- Audi, Buick, Cadillac, Chevy, Hyundai/Kia, Subaru, Toyota, Volvo

Trending up- Ferrari, Ford, Mazda, Porsche

And everyone is already buckling under the pressure of emissions, even the companies trending upward

This is in sharp contrast w/10 years ago... everyone on the decline now was either in their stride or trending upward at that time. So it's not just empty chatter

[Madman]

I've been hearing these doom-and-gloom tantrums ever since I was a kid.  And do you know what?  Today's cars are better then ever!

Most observers fail to understand that today we have the technology to have our cake and eat it too, in regards to performance, fuel economy and emissions.  That's something automotive engineers of the 1970s didn't have.  Thanks to the power of the microchip, we already have turbocharged four cylinder engines that will soundly trounce any 1960s V8.  Today's engineers have more tools in their arsenal to answer any challenge the future may bring then at any time in the past.

Screw the naysayers and bring on the future!

[cawimmer430]

I've been hearing these doom-and-gloom tantrums ever since I was a kid.  And do you know what?  Today's cars are better then ever!

Most observers fail to understand that today we have the technology to have our cake and eat it too, in regards to performance, fuel economy and emissions.  That's something automotive engineers of the 1970s didn't have.  Thanks to the power of the microchip, we already have turbocharged four cylinder engines that will soundly trounce any 1960s V8.  Today's engineers have more tools in their arsenal to answer any challenge the future may bring then at any time in the past.

Screw the naysayers and bring on the future!

Ding Ding! 

[MrH]

Not so sure about that.

Acura- TL & TSX are both worse than the versions they replaced, NSX is a pipe dream/tease
BMW- not going to offend folks sensibilities but some legitimate voices say there has been a decline
Honda- conversion to "green" company is complete... no more DOHC VTEC, no sports cars
Infiniti- Q name change makes no sense, Q50 ruined by electric steering
Mitsubishi- "in its last throes", pretty sure the EVO is dead and gone, THE MIRAGE
Nissan- whole line up is sad aside from the GT-R and Z. Maxima used to be a great car, Sentra had its fun variants etc all gone.
Volkswagen- Golf/GTI are good, but Jetta is duller, Passat is full blown American, CC platform is ~7 years old

Neutral- Audi, Buick, Cadillac, Chevy, Hyundai/Kia, Subaru, Toyota, Volvo

Trending up- Ferrari, Ford, Mazda, Porsche

And everyone is already buckling under the pressure of emissions, even the companies trending upward

This is in sharp contrast w/10 years ago... everyone on the decline now was either in their stride or trending upward at that time. So it's not just empty chatter

You just cherry picked a bunch of garbage you read about these cars and ignored all the good vehicles that are being made.

And you're still on the NSX isn't going to be made train?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Not so sure about that.

Acura- TL & TSX are both worse than the versions they replaced, NSX is a pipe dream/tease
BMW- not going to offend folks sensibilities but some legitimate voices say there has been a decline
Honda- conversion to "green" company is complete... no more DOHC VTEC, no sports cars
Infiniti- Q name change makes no sense, Q50 ruined by electric steering
Mitsubishi- "in its last throes", pretty sure the EVO is dead and gone, THE MIRAGE
Nissan- whole line up is sad aside from the GT-R and Z. Maxima used to be a great car, Sentra had its fun variants etc all gone.
Volkswagen- Golf/GTI are good, but Jetta is duller, Passat is full blown American, CC platform is ~7 years old

Neutral- Audi, Buick, Cadillac, Chevy, Hyundai/Kia, Subaru, Toyota, Volvo

Trending up- Ferrari, Ford, Mazda, Porsche

And everyone is already buckling under the pressure of emissions, even the companies trending upward

This is in sharp contrast w/10 years ago... everyone on the decline now was either in their stride or trending upward at that time. So it's not just empty chatter

This illustrates some of the problems with rants like this(the article posted by the OP). People think of the past as some sort of glory days or hi point, glossing over the same problems they(car makers) had then that they are facing now. A good example is the above listed examples.

The TL and TSX are worse then the cars they replaced, maybe so. The previous generations of these cars were average and mid class offerings. Yet now that a replacement is out these old models are always viewed as superior. Happens all the time, granted sometimes it is relevant.

Your honda reference makes it sound like the fall of a great company that offered sports machines for the common man. Other than the S2000 and NSX, they have not been known to be a performance company. I really don't know where this logic comes from. So, really no "conversion" going on there. Just business as usual.

Mitsubishi has never been more than an average car company that made one very solid and very well known performance car, and even in the states it has just recently reached that status.

Nissan-everything sucks except their z car and gt-r. Welcome to 1970,1980,1990,2000 well pretty much the existance of nissan. and this is the best example. They have only ever really had one or two performance cars(like almost every manufacturer). They have what they had 20 years ago.

I am of course making reference to vehicles for the performance market.

As for standard, joe blow stuff this argument is even weaker. Cars are the best they have been in decades, and only getting better.

I'm sure in 20 years there will be a post about how awesome the 2015-2020 cars where and how everything newer is junk.

[ChrisV]

Just going to leave this here:



Jack's wrong about 4 cyls being desirable only to Honda fans.

[12,000 RPM]

Not sure why 4 banger cars from 40 years ago are relevant now. Plus it's not like the 2002 was the 7 series of its day

[Xer0]

Ironically, I recall a post on TTAC like a month ago (from Jack too I believe) that auto journalists look at past cars too fondly. 

[MrH]

Ironically, I recall a post on TTAC like a month ago (from Jack too I believe) that auto journalists look at past cars too fondly.

Yeah, I vaguely remember that too.

[12,000 RPM]

There was also the piece on how folks don't put the Japanese bubble cars in the right context. This doesn't contradict that though.

[ChrisV]

Not sure why 4 banger cars from 40 years ago are relevant now. Plus it's not like the 2002 was the 7 series of its day

Jack's comments weren't JUST aimed at new cars, Sporty. he talked about Chrysler Turbines and Honda CBXs and Jaguar XJ220s. None of them were new cars, either. Yes, I did read the entire thing, and he's a putz, as usual.