Honda Element

[MrH]

Despite so much hate on this board for it, pulled the trigger on a Honda Element yesterday 

2009, 57k miles, and got a hell of a deal on it.  Paid $750 more than what it was going to go to auction for, a couple grand under everything else of similar year, mileage, options that I could find on Autotrader over the last few months.

It was single owner by one of the richest guys in Columbus apparently.  All maintenance done at a Honda dealership so it registered on CarFax.  About as clean of an Element as I could find.  A couple of exterior dings, and the interior needs a little bit of cleaning, but most Elements I looked at were covered in grime and dog hair.

It's an EX with AWD (same system as the CR-V.  Hydraulic based, FWD until it detects slip, then sends upwards of 50% to the back).  5-speed automatic unfortunately, but 2009+ (year of the facelift) with a manual and AWD is pretty much non-existant.  It's got an aftermarket Kenwood headunit that's a little old, but it has navigation + bluetooth and still works well.

Plan on tinting the thing, possibly debadging.  Handling is a little scary.  There's even a warning sticker on the sun visor to not do any quick maneuvers in it because it's so tippy   We make CR-V monotube shocks that looks to have the same geometry and mounting methods.

I've got some things to look into, but I may end up doing a custom setup similar to what the SC trim level runs (about 2.5" lower than stock).

All in all, I'm pretty thrilled with the purchase.  Took me 4 or 5 months to find the right one, but I'm glad I waited.



More pictures coming later.  This will probably be going on the back window too

[ifcar]

Congrats! I hope it treats you well.

[giant_mtb]

Cool! You'll get a lot of good use out of it, I'm sure.

[CALL_911]

Cool, but a pre-facelift would have been even cooler

[CALL_911]

On another note, Honda really gives their cars some great names. Element, Pilot, Legend, Accord, Odyssey, etc..

[giant_mtb]

On another note, Honda really gives their cars some great names. Element, Pilot, Legend, Accord, Odyssey, etc..

I prefer Lincoln names. MKY, MKL, MKP, MKA, MKC, MKE, etc.

[Catman]

I like it

[Rich]

I'd like to see a before/after/during of an interior hose-out.

[Soup DeVille]

I prefer Lincoln names. MKY, MKL, MKP, MKA, MKC, MKE, etc.

Zephyr was pretty good.

[giant_mtb]

Zephyr was pretty good.

I liked that car. Shame they changed it to the MKWhatever.

[AutobahnSHO]

   New car!!!   


So those are only 4seats though??

[Catman]

   New car!!!   


So those are only 4seats though??

Yeah which is why I never looked at them.

[Rupert]

Five seats, but the fifth is tiny.

Not bad, not bad. Don't lower it, though. You posted it to Big Guys, so you should expect it drive like one , most of which have that warning sticker about no fast maneuvers. Handling is only scary if you think you can drive it like a sports car.

[2o6]

Five seats, but the fifth is tiny.

Not bad, not bad. Don't lower it, though. You posted it to Big Guys, so you should expect it drive like one , most of which have that warning sticker about no fast maneuvers. Handling is only scary if you think you can drive it like a sports car.

No, it only has four seats. That bench only has two seatbelts....

[Rupert]

All of them? I'm pretty sure I've seen the fifth belt...

[Soup DeVille]

No, it only has four seats. That bench only has two seatbelts....

Like that matters...

[MrH]

No, they're all 4 seaters. Not sure why that's such a dealer for people though do people really carry that fifth person a lot?

[TurboDan]

Five seats, but the fifth is tiny.

Not bad, not bad. Don't lower it, though. You posted it to Big Guys, so you should expect it drive like one , most of which have that warning sticker about no fast maneuvers. Handling is only scary if you think you can drive it like a sports car.

Yeah, I have the rollerover sticker on the driver's side sun shade. Kinda threw me for a loop when I first got the thing.

[ifcar]

No, they're all 4 seaters. Not sure why that's such a dealer for people though do people really carry that fifth person a lot?

It's more about having the option than needing it all the time. People who buy an SUV would probably rather not need a spare car for times they want to carry more than three passengers.

Fortunately, it seems to meet your needs perfectly as-is.

[Eye of the Tiger]

If you just lower it without relocating the ball joints, you will raise the roll center. Learn how to suspension, engineer boy.

[MrH]

If you just lower it without relocating the ball joints, you will raise the roll center. Learn how to suspension, engineer boy.

This level of butt hurt is just pitiful. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

This level of butt hurt is just pitiful.

The hypocrisy and ignorance make me laugh, but hemorrhoids are no fun.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Take some of your own asshole advice.

I thought your little hissy fit would die out, but you just keep on going...

You do a bunch of dumb shit to your car, people call you out on it.  You have the audacity to say you're the only enthusiast here, and we're the ignorant ones?!  And you claimed to have proven this because you know how to calculate a spring rate and can use a torch...

Hold the fuck up.  Calculating spring rates is child's play compared to what's actually going on with your suspension.  And why do you think you're the only one who knows how anything about spring rates?   You do realize there's a ton of engineers on this board, right?

You claim we didn't bring up any legitimate points about you cutting your springs?  What was the spring rate before and after you cut them?  Was the the static deflection and natural frequency before and after?  How did the increasing of the spring rate while keeping your stock dampers affect your damping ratio?  I told you in your thread that you're probably significantly underdamped now, given the car was likely underdamped from the factory.  You just made the problem worse by cutting springs.  And not only that, but now you're overworking the fuck out of your dampers driving over dirt roads delivering pizzas on cut springs.  You're shortening the life of those stock shocks considerably. And now you gotta bend your perches because your springs aren't seated properly?  Well. No. Fucking. Shit.  And you're looking into eBay springs to fix it.

A stint in some automotive tech program doesn't turn you into the DaVinci of automobiles.  Don't sit here and say I'm the fucking ignorant one.  You're in so far over your head on this discussion, you don't even realize how little you know.  But the worst part about all of this is not even the technical issues.  The financial mistakes overarching the whole problems are infinitely worse.  You're upside down on a car and have mentioned repeatedly you were worried about it getting repossessed.  You know what happens if the yank the car from you, take it to auction, and it goes for nearly nothing on the auction block because the exhaust have fuckin rivets in it?  You'll be stuck with a $3k bill and nothing to show for it.

So after doing all this dumb shit, saying no one has any idea what they're doing but you, you want to come in here and start a thread telling us all to go fuck ourselves? 


I concur.

So go ahead and modify the suspension of your piece of shit beater (poor financial decision). You had better know your fucking damping ratio or your ass could explode.

[Byteme]

Despite so much hate on this board for it, pulled the trigger on a Honda Element yesterday 



I've got some things to look into, but I may end up doing a custom setup similar to what the SC trim level runs (about 2.5" lower than stock).[/quoe]
If you like Elements I think you got one in a decent color. 
What do you hope to accomplish by lowering it?

Better handling?  Will any improvement be noticable and usable?  And worth the hassle and expense?
Better ride?   Probably not.
More utility?  No
Easier to get into and out of?  Maybe.
Better looks?  It's an Element for gosh sakes.

[MrH]

Take some of your own asshole advice.



So go ahead and modify the suspension of your piece of shit beater (poor financial decision). You had better know your fucking damping ratio or your ass could explode.

You do realize I'm a design engineer at Bilstein, right?  So yes, I know what I'm doing

Better handling?  Will any improvement be noticable and usable?  And worth the hassle and expense?
Better ride?   Probably not.
More utility?  No
Easier to get into and out of?  Maybe.
Better looks?  It's an Element for gosh sakes.

Should be a pretty significant increase in handling and ride honestly.  It's something I'm looking into, but I'm not set on it yet.  It should be pretty cheap, and honestly isn't too big of a hassle either.  A few hours of investigation work for fun, a few hours to install things.

Nothing wrong with trying to make something as ugly as an Element look better

[Byteme]

You do realize I'm a design engineer at Bilstein, right?  So yes, I know what I'm doing

Should be a pretty significant increase in handling and ride honestly.  It's something I'm looking into, but I'm not set on it yet.  It should be pretty cheap, and honestly isn't too big of a hassle either.  A few hours of investigation work for fun, a few hours to install things.

Nothing wrong with trying to make something as ugly as an Element look better

I've always felt the guys who designed the thing in the first place knew what they were doing and just about  99 percent of the attempts to do aftermarket mods just screwed things up.  You suspension knowlege may make you an exception.

I don't claim to be a suspension expert but if you lower it won't you have to increase spring rates if you want to preserve the factory weight capacities?  Usually higher spring rates degrade the ride, don't they?  Like most everythging in life isn't suspension design a series of compromises.  You gain in one area you give something up somewhere else?

[MrH]

I've always felt the guys who designed the thing in the first place knew what they were doing and just about  99 percent of the attempts to do aftermarket mods just screwed things up.  You suspension knowlege may make you an exception.
I don't claim to be a suspension expert but if you lower it won't you have to increase spring rates if you want to preserve the factory weight capacities?  Usually higher spring rates degrade the ride, don't they?

All depends on the vehicle.  Something like a Honda Element, they're building for the masses and using cheap twin tube shocks.  They tune it and everything, but they're trying to hit a broad market.  This car also has 57k miles.  The shocks aren't in perfect shape anymore.

Yeah, I'd have to increase the spring rate if I want to keep the same approximate top limit for my wheel travel.  But spring rate is just one component to ride quality.  I prefer a much more controlled, firmer feel than what's on there now.  Just switching to bigger monotube shocks will improve the ride dramatically.  If I don't like the feel of our aftermarket shocks for it, or something else is off about them, I can revalve or modify pretty easily to get what I want.

I agree, most aftermarket stuff is garbage.  They bulk produce parts that fit multiple vehicles, but spend zero time tuning them correctly.  If you want an actual improvement in ride quality with aftermarket parts, you usually need to spend the money and buy from a company that actually tested and tuned for your specific vehicle.

[Byteme]

using cheap twin tube shocks.  .  Just switching to bigger monotube shocks will improve the ride dramatically. 

I called Bilstein and spoke to their tech people before I replaced the shocks on the CLK.  The recommended the HD monotube shocks for that car.   I have no regrets with that purchase.
Of course the car had 90,000 miles on it and the oiginal shocks (which still rode fairly well, just lacked some damping) so I had a faulty comparison.

[AutobahnSHO]

All of them? I'm pretty sure I've seen the fifth belt...

A selling point was that the 2 back seats folded up and high on the B pillar so you had lots of cargo room..

[Soup DeVille]

The fact is there's a pretty big window wher the suspension geometry is "good enough" if you're not trying to make a race car.

And yes, sometimes its best to just let it go...