944 Suspension

[Rupert]

Jesus fuck why are you propagating that old ass "conversation"? By god, kids, I'll turn this car around!

[Eye of the Tiger]

IIRC, it was Nick who decided to troll MrH, not the other way around.  He's a hack and we all know it, but he refuses to back down.  It's like reverse-snobbery; he's snobby about his disregard for good chassis tuning techniques.

Unfortunately for you and MrH, professional suspension tuners have been cutting coil springs since before either of you were born. I am just in awe at how you supposed enthusiasts can ignore such a basic concept.
By the way, my car handles great.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Suspension!

New shocks, Bilstein heavy duty. Much better, though part of that is that the old shocks were pretty worn and/or leaking fluid. I need to get it aligned and drive it some, but I think it's probably a little too rolly still. I don't want the ride to get much if any stiffer, though.

Also had a miscommunication with the mechanic, and the ride height got adjusted with the eccentric adjuster things only, and not the full torsion bar re-index, so I'll probably want to do that, too.

Are you going to go with a stiffer sway bar?

[S204STi]

Unfortunately for you and MrH, professional suspension tuners have been cutting coil springs since before either of you were born. I am just in awe at how you supposed enthusiasts can ignore such a basic concept.
By the way, my car handles great.

It's a distinctly shade-tree technique which was superseded by technology which results in measurable changes to spring rate as opposed to a "meh, fuck-it" approach to tuning.  No current, respected chassis engineers cut springs.  Like I said, snob.

[Secret Chimp]

Suspension!

New shocks, Bilstein heavy duty. Much better, though part of that is that the old shocks were pretty worn and/or leaking fluid. I need to get it aligned and drive it some, but I think it's probably a little too rolly still. I don't want the ride to get much if any stiffer, though.

Also had a miscommunication with the mechanic, and the ride height got adjusted with the eccentric adjuster things only, and not the full torsion bar re-index, so I'll probably want to do that, too.

Are the torsion bars splined or something? On Mopars you only check the index to make sure it's going back the same way you pulled it out, otherwise your car's stuck on the ground or in the air (hex ends).

[Soup DeVille]

It's a distinctly shade-tree technique which was superseded by technology which results in measurable changes to spring rate as opposed to a "meh, fuck-it" approach to tuning.  No current, respected chassis engineers cut springs.  Like I said, snob.

You can certainly calculate spring rate changes caused by cutting.

[Soup DeVille]

Are the torsion bars splined or something? On Mopars you only check the index to make sure it's going back the same way you pulled it out, otherwise your car's stuck on the ground or in the air (hex ends).

My Eldorados were splined.

[S204STi]

You can certainly calculate spring rate changes caused by cutting.

Yes, but it's something that makes sense only if one already has tangential coils... and on top of that, if, like most cars, the strut mount is indexed to the end of the upper and/or lower coil ends, to get them to match up properly you are forced to remove a fixed amount from the spring coil.  There's lots of compromise and *math* that goes into it.  I doubt Nick nor most shade-tree types are taking the time to measure that rate and then determine what their results will be.  That then factors into dampeners, ride height, (which now effects roll center, etc) etc. etc.  I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but the cobbled shit this guy is so proud of is nothing to actually be proud of, and nothing to give him the credibility to jump the shit of an actual engineer who just happened to do some internet research to help guide him in giving advice. I wouldn't give a fuck except that I'm tired of his fucking victim mentality; he's like those 'tards on TV shows who act like trash and then stick it in everyone's faces, demanding acceptance.

[NomisR]

Man, where's ChrisV during all this...

[Soup DeVille]

Yes, but it's something that makes sense only if one already has tangential coils... and on top of that, if, like most cars, the strut mount is indexed to the end of the upper and/or lower coil ends, to get them to match up properly you are forced to remove a fixed amount from the spring coil.  There's lots of compromise and *math* that goes into it.  I doubt Nick nor most shade-tree types are taking the time to measure that rate and then determine what their results will be.  That then factors into dampeners, ride height, (which now effects roll center, etc) etc. etc.  I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but the cobbled shit this guy is so proud of is nothing to actually be proud of, and nothing to give him the credibility to jump the shit of an actual engineer who just happened to do some internet research to help guide him in giving advice. I wouldn't give a fuck except that I'm tired of his fucking victim mentality; he's like those 'tards on TV shows who act like trash and then stick it in everyone's faces, demanding acceptance.

Sometimes, nothing a person says before the word "but" matters, sometimes, it's nothing they say afterwards that does.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yes, but it's something that makes sense only if one already has tangential coils... and on top of that, if, like most cars, the strut mount is indexed to the end of the upper and/or lower coil ends, to get them to match up properly you are forced to remove a fixed amount from the spring coil.  There's lots of compromise and *math* that goes into it.  I doubt Nick nor most shade-tree types are taking the time to measure that rate and then determine what their results will be.  That then factors into dampeners, ride height, (which now effects roll center, etc) etc. etc.  I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but the cobbled shit this guy is so proud of is nothing to actually be proud of, and nothing to give him the credibility to jump the shit of an actual engineer who just happened to do some internet research to help guide him in giving advice. I wouldn't give a fuck except that I'm tired of his fucking victim mentality; he's like those 'tards on TV shows who act like trash and then stick it in everyone's faces, demanding acceptance.

Cut the crap, asshole.

?

[Eye of the Tiger]

I just can't even keep repeating myself like this. Assholes.

There is not a goddamn single thing that any of you have tried to "teach" me that I didn't already address in full. The only thing you are doing is being an asshole.

My car handles great.
My car rides fine.
Nothing is broken.
Over 10,000 miles on this "cobbled" "hacked" suspension, and the only problem I have had is YOU ASSHOLES.

[Secret Chimp]

Please can we stop doing this all over the goddamn place

[Eye of the Tiger]

Please can we stop doing this all over the goddamn place

Not until you all get over the fact that I know what I'm doing.

[Rupert]

Are you going to go with a stiffer sway bar?

I think that's the best option, in lieu of stiffer springs. Probably increase the diameter 2-4 mm front and rear.

[Rupert]

Not until you all get over the fact that I know what I'm doing.

If I could ban you from my thread, I would. You're the instigator, even if everyone involved is being a pain in the ass about it.

[Rupert]

Are the torsion bars splined or something? On Mopars you only check the index to make sure it's going back the same way you pulled it out, otherwise your car's stuck on the ground or in the air (hex ends).

Yeah, splined. And they require the entire rear suspension to be dropped to adjust.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think that's the best option, in lieu of stiffer springs. Probably increase the diameter 2-4 mm front and rear.

I would actually recommend this for your particular application. They make adjustable ones, for $$ I'm sure.

[Rupert]

Drove it some more today, and more agressively, and liking it more, too. There's way less roll. I think I want to get the rear suspension indexed, then I'll leave it for a while

[Eye of the Tiger]

If I could ban you from my thread, I would. You're the instigator, even if everyone involved is being a pain in the ass about it.

I am sitting here doing actual work to my car while idiots piss on me through their keyboards. If that makes me the instigator, then I am the instigator.

[Rupert]

I would actually recommend this for your particular application. They make adjustable ones, for $$ I'm sure.

Adjustable is cool, but I don't think I need to go that far. I'm not going to spend a lot of time "tuning" it after the initial setup.

[Rupert]

I am sitting here doing actual work to my car while idiots piss on me through their keyboards. If that makes me the instigator, then I am the instigator.

This, the second reply in the thread,

Go ahead and ruin your suspension. Just remember that I know your car better than you do and that you should listen to me and just leave your suspension with genuine OEM Porsche parts only. There is no such thing as a good aftermarket part.

is what makes you the instigator. Quit it.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Adjustable is cool, but I don't think I need to go that far. I'm not going to spend a lot of time "tuning" it after the initial setup.

At least save the sway bars for last, and size them according to how you want to alter the tire load lateral transfer distribution. That may require some driving at the limit before and after... It is a good excuse if you get pulled over

[Rupert]

Obviously.

[MrH]

Unfortunately for you and MrH, professional suspension tuners have been cutting coil springs since before either of you were born. I am just in awe at how you supposed enthusiasts can ignore such a basic concept.
By the way, my car handles great.

So let me get this straight:  You trust "professional suspension tuners" (ie garbage shade tree mechanics such as yourself) because they're professionals...but me being a design engineer for a suspension company and designing shocks for real car companies doesn't mean shit.  Got it bro

[S204STi]

Sometimes, nothing a person says before the word "but" matters, sometimes, it's nothing they say afterwards that does.

Uh... ok?  Not sure what your point is.  Or maybe you're not getting mine.

Rupert, glad your torsion bars are splined; most of the ones I've seen are a six-sided spline, so indexing those would result in huge changes...

[S204STi]

I just can't even keep repeating myself like this. Assholes.

There is not a goddamn single thing that any of you have tried to "teach" me that I didn't already address in full. The only thing you are doing is being an asshole.

My car handles great.
My car rides fine.
Nothing is broken.
Over 10,000 miles on this "cobbled" "hacked" suspension, and the only problem I have had is YOU ASSHOLES.

Maybe don't jump everyone's shit constantly and nobody will care?  Or are you just being a troll?  Either a very good one or the worst ever.

[Rupert]

Uh... ok?  Not sure what your point is.  Or maybe you're not getting mine.

Rupert, glad your torsion bars are splined; most of the ones I've seen are a six-sided spline, so indexing those would result in huge changes...

Yeah, it's the Porsche way, apparently. The 911s of the day had the same setup, except you could index them without taking the entire car apart.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

[Rupert]

You know, I think I'll replace the crappy AFM with a MAF before I do sways. I bet that would improve things overall more than the sways.