The 2015 F150

[Byteme]

Just ran across this. Looks like Ford is making a strong effort to make repairability a non-issue.  :
Ford says redesigned F-150 pickup body cheaper, easier to repairReuters – 51 minutes ago  By Deepa Seetharaman
NEW ORLEANS, Jan 26 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co told dealers on Sunday that the radical redesign of the upcoming F-150 pickup will be easier and cheaper to repair than the outgoing model, helping hold down insurance costs for buyers.
Ford touted the savings for customers as a selling point, and the company pledged to help dealers defray expenses of up to $50,000 that some will need to pay for tools and equipment to certify their repair shops for the new truck.
The new F-150's body is 95 percent made of a military grade aluminum alloy used in Humvees and weighs up to 700 pounds less than the current truck. It was redesigned in a "modular" fashion that allows dealers and repair shops to save hours on fixes.
Among the most important changes is the front structure that holds the fender, Ford global marketing chief Jim Farley said. This piece is no longer welded, and can be taken off the truck, shaving six to seven hours from average repair time on that part.
"You'll see the dramatic changes we made that will really help save a lot of labor costs in the repairability of the vehicle," Farley said after meeting with dealers at the annual National Automobile Dealers Association conference.
Ford launched the truck at the Detroit auto show this month and it will appear in showrooms late this year. Ford's display at the NADA conference features a deconstructed F-150 shaded in different colors to illustrate the modular redesign.
The so-called "B-pillar" that slices between the front and rear doors was painted green and affixed with a sign saying it can be replaced without disturbing the roof. The A-pillar or roof rail tube can be sectioned off for repairs.
The more extensive use of aluminum in the new F-150 requires dealers and repair shops to use different repair tools. But many already have experience with aluminum because it is used in the hood of the current F-150 and in other models on the road.
Just 20 percent of dealers have a collision shop to make fixes to major dents and dings in these work trucks. Independent shops handle the majority of such repairs.
It may cost a dealer between $30,000 and $50,000 to be certified to do repairs on the new F-150, but that range applies to dealers who are "starting from scratch," executives said. Independent shops will also have to be certified by Ford.
The No. 2 U.S. automaker told dealers it would defray up to 20 percent, or $10,000, of the cost of certification.
It is unclear what the cost of insuring the new truck will be, but executives said costs will be "competitive" with rivals. The new truck's modular design help lower overall costs and hold down insurance costs, according to one dealer at the meeting.
"They think (insurance costs) will be same or possibly even less because Ford has done this in a modular way," said Todd Citron, a Ford dealer in Lafayette, Louisiana. "In other words, they can fix the vehicle in components."

[Soup DeVille]

Not just the tool makers. I was told that Ford or whoever buys the stuff needed to use them too. I'm not sure if it's true or not, I was just asking the guy why they make such small little changes on something like a star bit or a clip that has worked great for 10 years. And that's what he told me and he did work for Ford. I can't say that I know for sure if it's true but people being in bed with each other like that wouldn't floor me.

Some times its patent issues too; you'd be surprised how many of those stupid little clips have their own patent.

Model Ts were originally put together with regular flat screws on a lot of the body panels. Once they started using yankee screwdrivers on the line (before pneumatics), they slipped and scratched the panels far too often (as I'm sure you can imagine). So, Ford bought a system from a Canadian tool maker named Roberts (the square drive screws), and that really helped things along; but Roberts wouldn't license Ford to make and contract out his designs; he wanted to keep the patent and make the tools for Ford himself. So, Ford said "screw you" (that's punny, get it?), and went looking for somebody else, and found a dude that happened to be named Phillips.

So, Model Ts in the course of one year could have been put together with either straight screws, Roberts screws, or Phillips screws.

And that kind of stuff goes on all the time up to this day.

[Byteme]

Some times its patent issues too; you'd be surprised how many of those stupid little clips have their own patent.

Model Ts were originally put together with regular flat screws on a lot of the body panels. Once they started using yankee screwdrivers on the line (before pneumatics), they slipped and scratched the panels far too often (as I'm sure you can imagine). So, Ford bought a system from a Canadian tool maker named Roberts (the square drive screws), and that really helped things along; but Roberts wouldn't license Ford to make and contract out his designs; he wanted to keep the patent and make the tools for Ford himself. So, Ford said "screw you" (that's punny, get it?), and went looking for somebody else, and found a dude that happened to be named Phillips.

So, Model Ts in the course of one year could have been put together with either straight screws, Roberts screws, or Phillips screws.

And that kind of stuff goes on all the time up to this day.

I suspect speed and ease of assembly, along with clamping strength and the expectation of how often the fastener will be removed, pretty much drive (yet another pun) what fasteners get used where. 

[Soup DeVille]

I suspect speed and ease of assembly, along with clamping strength and the expectation of how often the fastener will be removed, pretty much drive (yet another pun) what fasteners get used where. 

I think removal, in most cases is an afterthought.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think removal, in most cases is an afterthought.

Everything can be fastened by welding, and removed by cutting, drilling, grinding, torching, shattering, or pounding. Why use fasteners at all?

[Soup DeVille]

Everything can be fastened by welding, and removed by cutting, drilling, grinding, torching, shattering, or pounding. Why use fasteners at all?

So you can have a semi-skilled worker attach it correctly in 45 seconds or less.

[Onslaught]

I think removal, in most cases is an afterthought.

This is 100% the case.

[93JC]

Model Ts were originally put together with regular flat screws on a lot of the body panels. Once they started using yankee screwdrivers on the line (before pneumatics), they slipped and scratched the panels far too often (as I'm sure you can imagine). So, Ford bought a system from a Canadian tool maker named Roberts (the square drive screws), and that really helped things along;

Robertson. The vast majority of screws in Canada are Robertson.

[Soup DeVille]

Robertson. The vast majority of screws in Canada are Robertson.

Whatever. I'm sure there's a monument in the center of every igloo and fishing village devoted to him.

[93JC]

As there should be, Robertson screws are far and away better than every other design in the world.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Oh how I hate those stupid ass square hole screws.

[Byteme]

I think removal, in most cases is an afterthought.

Given the crappy design on something as simple as sparkplug replacement on some cars I think you might  right.

[Byteme]

Everything can be fastened by welding, and removed by cutting, drilling, grinding, torching, shattering, or pounding. Why use fasteners at all?

I've seen no evidence of seat covers being welded  in place in any car I've owned.   

[MX793]

Everything can be fastened by welding, and removed by cutting, drilling, grinding, torching, shattering, or pounding. Why use fasteners at all?

Good luck welding an aluminum panel to a steel frame member.

[280Z Turbo]

Good luck welding an aluminum panel to a steel frame member.

Honda does it

[MX793]

Honda does it

Link?

[280Z Turbo]

Link?

http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120906Weld-Together-Steel-Aluminum/

[Byteme]

http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120906Weld-Together-Steel-Aluminum/

Interesting, and this from Car and Driver
Two Metals Enter, One Leaves: The Miracle of Friction Stir Welding Expect to see more of this technique used in vehicle construction moving forward.

   
• May 2013
• BY              K.C. COLWELL
•                  ILLUSTRATION BY BRYAN CHRISTIE DESIGN             

53 [/t][/t] 27 From the May 2013 Issue of Car and Driver[/size]slow your rollout [/size]So far, friction stir welding has been used only in specialized roles.[/size]2013 Honda Accord (front subframe)[/size]2010 Toyota Prius (rear hatch)[/size]2007 Audi R8 (part of space frame)[/size]2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata (trunk and hood)[/size]2005 Ford GT (part of space frame)[/size]2004 Mazda RX-8 (rear doors and hood)[/size]2003 Lincoln Town Car L (suspension components)[/size]2001 Volvo V70 (rear seat frame) [/size]The typical images of welding—a robotic arm burping sparks or a masked Jesse James hovering over a glowing metal puddle—don't apply to friction stir welding (FSW). The metal-joining technique was developed in 1991 by The Welding Institute, an industrial research center near Cambridge, England. In the mid-1990s, two Scandinavian aluminum-extrusion companies became the first to use the technique commercially. Since then, it has been widely adopted by the aerospace industry and has slowly trickled into the automotive realm.Sparks and eye shields are part of fusion welding, where an electric current heats two pieces of metal to a molten state. When the metal pool cools, a single, solid joint results. In contrast, FSW is a solid-state weld involving no molten metal. Heat generated by pressure and friction is all that's needed to ensure a strong metal bond.The benefits are numerous. Most notably, FSW works with dissimilar ­metals. Not only can it weld different aluminum alloys, but it can also weld steel to aluminum. Before FSW, this was time consuming, costly, and often resulted in brittle bonds not suitable for load-bearing applications. 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata Mazda, for example, uses FSW to attach steel studs to the MX-5 Miata's aluminum inner-trunk panel. And the new Honda Accord's front subframe, which carries the engine and some suspension components, is made of aluminum and steel halves. The details are proprietary, although Honda has said this is the first use of continuous, or linear, FSW in a bi-metal structural component of a production vehicle. The two halves overlap, and the welds are located between the two components. A barrier placed between the steel and aluminum diminishes the likelihood of bi-metallic corrosion. Honda says a new iron-aluminum chemical compound–Fe4A113–forms during its FSW process, and that the bond is as strong as a conventional weld.FSW also has gained traction with automakers for its ability to spot-weld thin aluminum sheets, such as the aforementioned MX-5's trunk panel. Fusion-welding thin-gauge aluminum can perforate it, but because of the relatively low heat associated with FSW, deformations are less likely. Also, compared with fusion welding, FSW can cut electricity consumption in half.And unlike conventional welding, which adds mass in the form of filler metal from welding wire, FSW adds nothing. So it reduces the weight of the finished product at a time when every ounce counts in today's fuel-economy-driven industry. Given this, and the ability to weld dissimilar metals, friction stir welding opens up more opportunities to use aluminum to trim weight. Expect to start seeing FSW everywhere in the automotive sphere. View Photo Gallery

[MX793]

http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120906Weld-Together-Steel-Aluminum/

I was speaking of traditional electric/arc welding.  Stir welding is something of a different animal.  I don't believe there are any hand-held FSW machines that could be used to, say, make a repair to a damaged vehicle as someone might weld a patch into a body panel with a MIG or TIG welder.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I was speaking of traditional electric/arc welding.  Stir welding is something of a different animal.  I don't believe there are any hand-held FSW machines that could be used to, say, make a repair to a damaged vehicle as someone might weld a patch into a body panel with a MIG or TIG welder.

JB Weld

[MX793]

JB Weld

JB Weld is not a weld.  It's an epoxy.  That would fall under adhesive bonding.

[Onslaught]

Just ran across this. Looks like Ford is making a strong effort to make repairability a non-issue.  :
Ford says redesigned F-150 pickup body cheaper, easier to repairReuters – 51 minutes ago  By Deepa Seetharaman
NEW ORLEANS, Jan 26 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co told dealers on Sunday that the radical redesign of the upcoming F-150 pickup will be easier and cheaper to repair than the outgoing model, helping hold down insurance costs for buyers.
Ford touted the savings for customers as a selling point, and the company pledged to help dealers defray expenses of up to $50,000 that some will need to pay for tools and equipment to certify their repair shops for the new truck.
The new F-150's body is 95 percent made of a military grade aluminum alloy used in Humvees and weighs up to 700 pounds less than the current truck. It was redesigned in a "modular" fashion that allows dealers and repair shops to save hours on fixes.
Among the most important changes is the front structure that holds the fender, Ford global marketing chief Jim Farley said. This piece is no longer welded, and can be taken off the truck, shaving six to seven hours from average repair time on that part.
"You'll see the dramatic changes we made that will really help save a lot of labor costs in the repairability of the vehicle," Farley said after meeting with dealers at the annual National Automobile Dealers Association conference.
Ford launched the truck at the Detroit auto show this month and it will appear in showrooms late this year. Ford's display at the NADA conference features a deconstructed F-150 shaded in different colors to illustrate the modular redesign.
The so-called "B-pillar" that slices between the front and rear doors was painted green and affixed with a sign saying it can be replaced without disturbing the roof. The A-pillar or roof rail tube can be sectioned off for repairs.
The more extensive use of aluminum in the new F-150 requires dealers and repair shops to use different repair tools. But many already have experience with aluminum because it is used in the hood of the current F-150 and in other models on the road.
Just 20 percent of dealers have a collision shop to make fixes to major dents and dings in these work trucks. Independent shops handle the majority of such repairs.
It may cost a dealer between $30,000 and $50,000 to be certified to do repairs on the new F-150, but that range applies to dealers who are "starting from scratch," executives said. Independent shops will also have to be certified by Ford.
The No. 2 U.S. automaker told dealers it would defray up to 20 percent, or $10,000, of the cost of certification.
It is unclear what the cost of insuring the new truck will be, but executives said costs will be "competitive" with rivals. The new truck's modular design help lower overall costs and hold down insurance costs, according to one dealer at the meeting.
"They think (insurance costs) will be same or possibly even less because Ford has done this in a modular way," said Todd Citron, a Ford dealer in Lafayette, Louisiana. "In other words, they can fix the vehicle in components."

Certified by Ford? I think not, as long as someone brings a car/truck to a shop the manufacture has no say in things like that.
Also the "experience" with F-150 aluminum hoods stuff is BS too. Taking 4 bolts off and putting a new one on isn't much of a lesson.

[Onslaught]

I was speaking of traditional electric/arc welding.  Stir welding is something of a different animal.  I don't believe there are any hand-held FSW machines that could be used to, say, make a repair to a damaged vehicle as someone might weld a patch into a body panel with a MIG or TIG welder.

Not that I know of.

[Byteme]

Certified by Ford? I think not, as long as someone brings a car/truck to a shop the manufacture has no say in things like that.
Also the "experience" with F-150 aluminum hoods stuff is BS too. Taking 4 bolts off and putting a new one on isn't much of a lesson.

Certification can mean many things.  Hopefully it means the shop exhibits a certain level of competance.  Sure an owner is free to choose whatever shop they want, many owners will be more comfortable with a shop the manufacturer says is capable of doing the repair.

Does no one repair an aluminum hood if it's dented?  I assumed that is what the news release was talking about, that and the painting process.

[Onslaught]

Certification can mean many things.  Hopefully it means the shop exhibits a certain level of competance.  Sure an owner is free to choose whatever shop they want, many owners will be more comfortable with a shop the manufacturer says is capable of doing the repair.

Does no one repair an aluminum hood if it's dented?  I assumed that is what the news release was talking about, that and the painting process.

Small dent sure. Anything large or with a rip then no, most of the time not.

As for certification, shops don't always tell the truth! My shop told people for 16 years I was a certified Mazda auto body tech. I wasn't certified for anything and kept telling them to stop telling people that. Boss said that people and insurance adjusters never even asked for proof. I happen to know this happens at more then one shop.

[SVT666]

Ford has announced that it will subsidize some repair work on its all-new, aluminum-bodied F-150 in order to keep repair and
insurance costs as low as possible

Ford's decision to construct large portions of its 2015 F-150 out of weight-saving aluminum promises several benefits - chiefly
improvements in fuel economy and payload capacity - but the move will also test the nation's repair shops. Just 10 percent of
collision centers are equipped to work with aluminum body panels, which threatens higher repair bills that could lead to steeper
insurance costs.

In order to prevent that from happening, Ford announced on Monday that it will foot the bill for 20 percent of repair costs, up
to $10,000, to fix its 2015 F-150. The deal cover's Ford U.S. dealerships only.

Mike Levine, a Ford spokesman, told Edmunds that the program will ensure "insurance costs and repair costs to consumers will
be competitive with the current trucks."

Levine also noted that the 2015 F-150 features a modular design so some body parts can simply be swapped out for new ones
in the event of a crash.

"What this means for car buyers is that in the event of an accident with the (2015) F-150, we've made it so it's designed for
easy repair," he said. "It's easier to repair due to the modular body panels on some parts of the truck. This could save hours
of labor time versus the previous truck."

Ford is also planning to reimburse dealers for technician training classes covering aluminum.

Unveiled at the 2014 North American International Auto Show, the 2015 Ford F-150 is scheduled to arrive in dealer showrooms
by the end of this year.

[280Z Turbo]

It's like they're back pedaling now. I'm not sure what to make of it.

[Soup DeVille]

It's like they're back pedaling now. I'm not sure what to make of it.

They probably got some push back from the dealers.

[Onslaught]

The thing is most dealerships don't have body shops anymore. The old ones in Charlotte still have them but all the new Ford dealerships here don't. Most of them shut down around here.

[sparkplug]

The thing is most dealerships don't have body shops anymore. The old ones in Charlotte still have them but all the new Ford dealerships here don't. Most of them shut down around here.

Insteresting. Any idea why.