LaFerrari reviews

[Galaxy]

Hybrid tech has added a lot of performance to F1 as well but I'm still just not a fan.

Well at minimum it greatly increased the efficiency without degrading performance. At the Bahrain GB Rosberg's time was 0.1 second slower than last year, yet he only used 2/3 of the fuel. That is pretty impressive.

[MX793]

You're really confused on what the meaning of "slower" is?

All three manufacturers said the cars will be significantly slower without the hybrid tech.  Most of the systems aren't 300-400 lbs, but besides, the weight is all very low and central to the vehicle.  Not nearly as big of an impact.

So in other words, after a few hard laps have sucked the batteries dead, these cars are considerably slower since they are no longer really operating with their hybrid tech.

I appreciate the engineering, but these electric performance boosters really aren't much different than throwing a nitrous system with a small bottle of giggle gas on the car and using that for a boost down every straightaway (which was a mod in one of the GT games, as I recall).  Greatly improves performance until you run out of NOS.

[68_427]

I'd rather have a turbo 5 spd Baja

[Onslaught]

They have to start someplace. 10 years from now this shit will kick fucking ass and we'll all be glad they started working on them now.

And not one of us can have one anyway. So what's the big deal?

[Raza]

They have to start someplace. 10 years from now this shit will kick fucking ass and we'll all be glad they started working on them now.

And not one of us can have one anyway. So what's the big deal?

In 10 years cars will be full electric, road trips will take weeks, and computers will do all the driving. 

[12,000 RPM]

You're really confused on what the meaning of "slower" is?

All three manufacturers said the cars will be significantly slower without the hybrid tech.  Most of the systems aren't 300-400 lbs, but besides, the weight is all very low and central to the vehicle.  Not nearly as big of an impact.

I must laugh at all the anti-hybrid talk. I welcome them working and improving the electrics for future cars that I can own. It's the one and only time trickle down ideas actually happens.
And stop throwing out numbers of how much this stuff weighs unless you have the numbers to back it up.

Come on guys. This info is out there.

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/289924/laferrari_vs_mclaren_p1_in_depth_technical_analysis.html

The electrical system adds 140kg in weight, the battery being 66kg, yet Ferrari says the car will weigh 'about 1300kg' (the Enzo was 1365kg). Total combined power is 950bhp.

The full electrical system adds a claimed 170kg to the P1's weight, bringing it up to 1395kg 'dry', while the total combined power is 903bhp.

140kg = 315lbs, 170kg = 382lbs

When the charge runs out, and if you are driving these cars as they should be driven for a distance longer than 1 Nurburgring lap, it WILL run out, do you really think the effect of that 300-400lb paperweight and a loss of 150-200HP will have no negative effect on performance vs not having the hybrid system at all?

Like MX793 said, if you run these cars hard these hybrid systems are essentially 300-400lb 200HP NOS shots. I'm not trying to downplay the technical achievement here but let's really look at these things without the rose colored glasses of spec fetishism. For the money I would rather a hybrid-less track only car with "only" 700-800HP and a ~2500lb curb weight.

$1MM+ for performance you can only tap into at 100% for ~15 minutes at a time at a track.......... 

[MX793]

In 10 years cars will be full electric, road trips will take weeks, and computers will do all the driving. 

It'll be just like the Oregon Trail days!  Hopefully with less dysentery.

[Onslaught]

If I had one of those It never see the track. Never.

Because if I had the money to buy one of these I'd have more then enough money to buy a real track day car too. And a large truck to pull it to the track. My LaFerrari would be for driving around when taking hot ass out and car shows. The same thing most of them will be for.

[Onslaught]

In 10 years cars will be full electric, road trips will take weeks, and computers will do all the driving.

Don't have a problem with full electric because by then they will last longer and charge faster. And I think all electric will be awesome.
As for the computers driving, not a fan of that.

[12,000 RPM]

If I had one of those It never see the track. Never.

Because if I had the money to buy one of these I'd have more then enough money to buy a real track day car too. And a large truck to pull it to the track. My LaFerrari would be for driving around when taking hot ass out and car shows. The same thing most of them will be for.

Wow, what a waste. That's depressing.

[Onslaught]

Wow, what a waste. That's depressing.

It's reality. Most of them will be owned by arab oil tycoons. The others will be show cars and garage queens.  And I'd rather run a pure track day car then one of these anyway on a track.

Hell, you and I have sports cars. How many times have you tracked the Z?

[MrH]

McLaren P1.

0-60 in 2.6
0-100 in 4.7
1/4 in 9.8 at 148.9 mph

What. The. Fuck.

[hotrodalex]

:jawdrop:

[Onslaught]

McLaren P1.

0-60 in 2.6
0-100 in 4.7
1/4 in 9.8 at 148.9 mph

What. The. Fuck.

These are mind blowing numbers for a road car. How the fuck do you get enough traction?

[Rupert]

Wow, what a waste. That's depressing.

Yeah, you're the only real enthusiast here.

[MrH]

Come on guys. This info is out there.

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/289924/laferrari_vs_mclaren_p1_in_depth_technical_analysis.html
140kg = 315lbs, 170kg = 382lbs

When the charge runs out, and if you are driving these cars as they should be driven for a distance longer than 1 Nurburgring lap, it WILL run out, do you really think the effect of that 300-400lb paperweight and a loss of 150-200HP will have no negative effect on performance vs not having the hybrid system at all?

Like MX793 said, if you run these cars hard these hybrid systems are essentially 300-400lb 200HP NOS shots. I'm not trying to downplay the technical achievement here but let's really look at these things without the rose colored glasses of spec fetishism. For the money I would rather a hybrid-less track only car with "only" 700-800HP and a ~2500lb curb weight.

$1MM+ for performance you can only tap into at 100% for ~15 minutes at a time at a track.......... 

Not quite.  Pretty sure the Porsche can charge the batteries with the engine even when you're off throttle (ie mid-corner, braking, etc).  It's basically acting as a horsepower capacitor the entire time.  Whenever you're not completely on the throttle, it's charging up.  I think the McLaren can do something similar.  The LaFerrari is less reliant on its hybrid system (smaller electric motor & battery pack), so draining it is much less of a concern.

The hot lap was made strictly for when you want to completely waste the entire battery on a lap.  If you have the desire or endurance (which no one here does) to do more than a full Ring lap full out at a time, then you can leave it in race.

You're assuming any of us even have the skill to be burying into the throttle so much that we're completely depleting the battery. The idea of doing multiple ring laps in a row is pretty laughable.

[hotrodalex]

I can barely do multiple Ring laps in Gran Turismo.

[12,000 RPM]

Not quite.  Pretty sure the Porsche can charge the batteries with the engine even when you're off throttle (ie mid-corner, braking, etc).  It's basically acting as a horsepower capacitor the entire time.  Whenever you're not completely on the throttle, it's charging up.  I think the McLaren can do something similar.  The LaFerrari is less reliant on its hybrid system (smaller electric motor & battery pack), so draining it is much less of a concern.

The hot lap was made strictly for when you want to completely waste the entire battery on a lap.  If you have the desire or endurance (which no one here does) to do more than a full Ring lap full out at a time, then you can leave it in race.

You're assuming any of us even have the skill to be burying into the throttle so much that we're completely depleting the battery. The idea of doing multiple ring laps in a row is pretty laughable.

In Chris Harris review of the P1 he asked an engineer how long a charge was good for. Engineer said "a little over 1 lap of the ring". Recovery rate can't be 100% under all conditions... eventually you will deplete the battery if you drive long enough + hard enough.

And yea, nobody here now has the endurance or skill to go all out for multiple laps on the Ring, but if I had a car like this I would work my way towards it, or have built up enough experience in high performance cars to at least have a starting point. Nobody here has a million plus to buy one of these things either.

Yeah, you're the only real enthusiast here.

Way to project, but yea, garage queening any flagship Ferrari should be a crime.

[Onslaught]

Way to project, but yea, garage queening any flagship Ferrari should be a crime.

I don't agree with that. If you have the money you can do whatever you want with it. I'd say taking an almost irreplaceable piece of automotive history on a track without enough skill/knowledge to keep it safe should be a crime.
And I'm thankful that some people buy cars and keep them in garages. One day I hope to buy an old car that someone kept nice.

[Raza]

It'll be just like the Oregon Trail days!  Hopefully with less dysentery.

[Laconian]

It'll be just like the Oregon Trail days!  Hopefully with less dysentery.

Ford the river and everybody dies from electric shocks.

[Rupert]

In Chris Harris review of the P1 he asked an engineer how long a charge was good for. Engineer said "a little over 1 lap of the ring". Recovery rate can't be 100% under all conditions... eventually you will deplete the battery if you drive long enough + hard enough.

And yea, nobody here now has the endurance or skill to go all out for multiple laps on the Ring, but if I had a car like this I would work my way towards it, or have built up enough experience in high performance cars to at least have a starting point. Nobody here has a million plus to buy one of these things either.
Way to project, but yea, garage queening any flagship Ferrari should be a crime.

How many track days have you done now?

[12,000 RPM]

How many track days have you done now?

3, not sure how that's relevant though... how many track days has anyone here done? If I could afford to go more I would.

[NomisR]

I think I would want something like a Mono1, or a dedicated formula car for track days if I had that kind of money though.  They would be cheaper to crash..

[MrH]

3, not sure how that's relevant though... how many track days has anyone here done? If I could afford to go more I would.

It's relevant because you're trying to dismiss these cars because you could run out of battery power after doing multiple laps on the Nurburgring.

It's based on the assumption you would:

1.  Track this car regularly
2.  Drive this thing well enough to deplete the batteries
3.  Ship the thing to Europe to take on the ring
4.  Drive this thing for more than one lap of the ring at the time


No one here is capable of driving anywhere near the limits of the thing here, let alone multiple laps in a row like that.  I was sweating and breathing heavy after one lap at a time on the ring with a suzuki swift.  Your nerves would be shot and pants soiled after a lap in a LaFerrari.  To think you could just casually turn lap after lap full out in this thing, to the point that you're worried about depleting the batteries and slowing you down is so beyond ridiculous.

[Raza]

It's relevant because you're trying to dismiss these cars because you could run out of battery power after doing multiple laps on the Nurburgring.

It's based on the assumption you would:

1.  Track this car regularly
2.  Drive this thing well enough to deplete the batteries
3.  Ship the thing to Europe to take on the ring
4.  Drive this thing for more than one lap of the ring at the time


No one here is capable of driving anywhere near the limits of the thing here, let alone multiple laps in a row like that.  I was sweating and breathing heavy after one lap at a time on the ring with a suzuki swift.  Your nerves would be shot and pants soiled after a lap in a LaFerrari.  To think you could just casually turn lap after lap full out in this thing, to the point that you're worried about depleting the batteries and slowing you down is so beyond ridiculous.

So your contention is that this car is beyond the ability of anyone who will own it and will therefore not see significant track time and that's somehow a positive?

[MrH]

So your contention is that this car is beyond the ability of anyone who will own it and will therefore not see significant track time and that's somehow a positive?

No, my contention is Sporty's justification for writing off the vehicle is based on a situation that would never happen. It's a pretty stupid argument.

[NomisR]

It's relevant because you're trying to dismiss these cars because you could run out of battery power after doing multiple laps on the Nurburgring.

It's based on the assumption you would:

1.  Track this car regularly
2.  Drive this thing well enough to deplete the batteries
3.  Ship the thing to Europe to take on the ring
4.  Drive this thing for more than one lap of the ring at the time


No one here is capable of driving anywhere near the limits of the thing here, let alone multiple laps in a row like that.  I was sweating and breathing heavy after one lap at a time on the ring with a suzuki swift.  Your nerves would be shot and pants soiled after a lap in a LaFerrari.  To think you could just casually turn lap after lap full out in this thing, to the point that you're worried about depleting the batteries and slowing you down is so beyond ridiculous.

It doesn't even have to be the Nurburgring though.  I mean you're looking at about running out of juice after 3.2 miles.  Typical track you're probably looking at 1.5 miles a lap.  So basically you'll run out of juice after 2 laps?  If you're going to a  typical track day at 20 min sessions where you can get about.. .12-14 laps?  You're still looking at half the laps with a dead battery assuming you're not capable of draining the battery like a good pro.  That's still not all that fun. 

And if you plan to do more than just track day but run this in competition, this would make an even bigger difference.

[MrH]

It doesn't even have to be the Nurburgring though.  I mean you're looking at about running out of juice after 3.2 miles.  Typical track you're probably looking at 1.5 miles a lap.  So basically you'll run out of juice after 2 laps?  If you're going to a  typical track day at 20 min sessions where you can get about.. .12-14 laps?  You're still looking at half the laps with a dead battery assuming you're not capable of draining the battery like a good pro.  That's still not all that fun. 

And if you plan to do more than just track day but run this in competition, this would make an even bigger difference.

Where are you getting 3.2 miles for running out of juice...?

The Porsche 918 has a race mode that's meant to sustain battery charging (by charging when you're off throttle, in addition to braking regeneration).  There's a "hot lap" button that's meant to use for one lap to completely drain the batteries to try and get one best lap in.  But if you're going to be doing 20 minute sessions, clearly it's not meant for that.

Not sure why this feature has everyone's panties in a bundle.

[NomisR]

Where are you getting 3.2 miles for running out of juice...?

The Porsche 918 has a race mode that's meant to sustain battery charging (by charging when you're off throttle, in addition to braking regeneration).  There's a "hot lap" button that's meant to use for one lap to completely drain the batteries to try and get one best lap in.  But if you're going to be doing 20 minute sessions, clearly it's not meant for that.

Not sure why this feature has everyone's panties in a bundle.

I'm talking about Sporty's post when the Engineers of the P1 was asked about the juice for the thing.  So based on the length of the track, of course YMMV,but it still won't last one full track session.