The trials and tribulations of Xer0's Civic Si ownership

[MX793]

Civic update time!

Well, the CAI and the HFP suspension are still sitting in boxes in my parents basement.  I imagine that when they are both installed the car will be super duper awesome, but between crazy hours at work and the nearest shop being a 45 minute drive into the suburbs that's only open M-F, they shall remain in their boxes for the near future.

I did, however, decide to take the car drag racing for shits and giggles this past weekend and managed to get in about 5 runs before the serious racers showed up and held up the line with their cars always fucking breaking and needing to be rolled in and out and just all sorts of obnoxious stuff.  Its open night man, just drag the pickup that you used to hull your ride; it'll be able to do more than one run every hour and it won't ruin our night.

Anyway, the point is that a stock Si is just not that fast.  A stock SI driven by a totall nub is even slower.  I was with a group of EVOs that were consistently in the 13s, and one even dipped into the 12s, but the best I got was a 15.6 @ 87.55.  That was my first run of the night with traction control on and someone in the passenger seat, and while my traps got higher as the night wore on, my time got slower.  Apparently, stock SI's on all seasons can run as low as 14.8 @ 96ish by a brain dead driver all of the forums assure me, and even factoring in the forum brag factor of half a second and 4mph, I was still really slow.  Anyway, my times:

15.617 @ 87.55
16.047 @ 89.81
15.720 @ 90.99
16.548 @ 85.81
15.832 @ 88.63

I'll more than likely go again and hopefully my CAI will be installed by then so I can see how many awesome horespowers it was able to summon to the ground....aaaaand probably end up going slower.  But I'll sound faster!

What altitude are you at?  That will make a big difference in what kind of ETs you can get.  If you're living at 4000+ ft, you're not going to get the times or traps speeds that guys living in Florida are getting.

[Rich]

Very, very interesting

I need to find a nearby strip.

One thing that a lot of people are doing to get those low times is absolutely lunching their transmissions. Brain dead indeed

I think karting will be my drug of choice. I just need to actually pick a day and go.

You should get into some auto crossing too. Not a lot of wear and tear, and have fun with your car with little chance of wadding it up (just take it easy on the turns that have a light post nearby)

I'm sure there are a ton of drag strips out there

[Xer0]

I know a lot make fun of drag racing, but I had fun the one time I took the Mustang to the drags.  I was way off what the mags were getting, too. Get your suspension on there, too.  I'd imagine it would be good for a few tenths if it has high spring rates, keeping more weight on the front tires with less squat on the launch.


I think drag racing, go kart races/leagues, and autocrossing all have pretty good bang for the buck fun factor for those wanting some competition.  U.S HPDE's are fun every so often, but cost a ton of money and there's no timing or competition.

Joining a go kart league has been in the back of my mind for some time now and as soon as I can find a schedule to work, I probably will join one.  But yeah, I was one of those people looking down on drag racing but all in all, it was actually really fun and exciting!


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[Xer0]

What altitude are you at?  That will make a big difference in what kind of ETs you can get.  If you're living at 4000+ ft, you're not going to get the times or traps speeds that guys living in Florida are getting.

The strip was in southern Wisconsin (I live in Chicago) and the altitude was 712ft according to their site.


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[MX793]

I know a lot make fun of drag racing, but I had fun the one time I took the Mustang to the drags.  I was way off what the mags were getting, too. Get your suspension on there, too.  I'd imagine it would be good for a few tenths if it has high spring rates, keeping more weight on the front tires with less squat on the launch.


I think drag racing, go kart races/leagues, and autocrossing all have pretty good bang for the buck fun factor for those wanting some competition.  U.S HPDE's are fun every so often, but cost a ton of money and there's no timing or competition.

AutoX is my petrol-fueled adrenaline rush of choice.  Way cheaper entry fees than an HPDE (I can run an entire 6-8 event season for about what one HPDE would cost at any of the tracks around here), actual competition, course is different every time (tests adaptability), and not so much wear and tear on brakes and tires as running on actual tracks, which further helps the cost factor.  Obviously, speed is way down, but if you like rapid changes in direction, it scratches the itch.

[12,000 RPM]

I wonder if I can do autocross on my motorcycle. That would kill about 3 birds with one stone.

[MX793]

I wonder if I can do autocross on my motorcycle. That would kill about 3 birds with one stone.

No.  Not in any of the major autocross sanctioning bodies that I'm familiar with.  Huge safety liability.  Also, I personally wouldn't want to run a bike on an autocross course.  You're running in parking lots with all of the hazards associated with parking lot pavement.  Oil slicks, sand/gravel, and even just the painted lines (which are often much slicker than asphalt) all out there to take out a bike.  Not to mention clipping a cone while leaned over would probably be enough to take a bike down.  And most parking lots have lamp posts and they don't put any kind of hay bales or anything to pad those.  Course setup guidelines force you to keep some distance from poles to reduce the likelihood of somebody hitting them, but sometimes shit happens.

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah fuck autox on a motorcycle. The idea itself is so stupid.

I'd like to try a gymkhana course on my bike, but that is super slow speed anyways (10-15 mph).

I feel like auto-x is too expensive for what you get. 4-5 1 minute runs for $40 is not a good deal IMO. Track days are more expensive, but for $200 or so you can get 7 15 min sessions. Yes, it's much harder on the car but if I'm going to spend a day doing some sort of event I'd like to get the most out of it.

[Rich]

Where were you running for $200?  Autox lets you see how you stack up against other cars and drivers too

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Some of the autox test and tunes around here get you a lot of runs. Last one I was at I probably ran about 15 times before I had a car issue.

[MrH]

Just install the CAI and suspension yourself?

[Xer0]

Just install the CAI and suspension yourself?

I'm mechanically inept.  The CAI requires a battery relocation among other things and I wouldn't know where to start with the suspension.


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[MX793]

Yeah fuck autox on a motorcycle. The idea itself is so stupid.

I'd like to try a gymkhana course on my bike, but that is super slow speed anyways (10-15 mph).

I feel like auto-x is too expensive for what you get. 4-5 1 minute runs for $40 is not a good deal IMO. Track days are more expensive, but for $200 or so you can get 7 15 min sessions. Yes, it's much harder on the car but if I'm going to spend a day doing some sort of event I'd like to get the most out of it.

I agree that dollars per minute, autoX isn't as much of a value as a track day, though arguably better than drag racing.  Even in my region, where we get low turn outs and typically get 7 runs per event on average (plus you can usually get 2-4 "fun runs" in for a couple of bucks at the end of an event).  But not everyone has a track nearby, and not all tracks do track days for $200.  If there was a track I could get onto for only $200 an event around here, I'd probably go that route vs autoX.  Watkins Glen is the closest track to me and it's far enough that I'd want a hotel room.  Their HPDE type events are almost exclusively on weekdays.  Cheapest I've seen is one of the driving schools offers a 1-time-only "taste of HPDE" that, for $75, gets you classroom instruction plus a single 20-minute track session with an instructor on day 1 of their 2-day school.  If you like it, you can pay the balance of the normal $500 HPDE event fee and continue with more sessions and get into day 2.  All other HPDEs are $400+ between entry fees and any annual dues for the clubs/organizations that run them.  The company that does the most HPDEs per year there isn't open to novices.  Only "pro open track" and "intermediate driving school" sessions, the latter requires a documented 10+ days of HPDE experience (or 5+ at WGI), and costs about $500, with a $300/day cost for those that qualify for the "open track" sessions.

Doing the math, for me as a novice to run all 4 events (8 days) at WGI next year that are open to novice drivers, it would cost me ~$2000 for entry fees plus ~$800-900 for hotel stays.  And I'm missing work and using vacation time to attend since all of those events are weekday events (autoX are always weekends).  Yeah, it works out to be a better value than a comparable dollar amount spent on autoX fees, but but it's a much steeper point of entry.  Just one event would run me close to $500, and if the weather is crappy that day (I point out that it rains here roughly 3 days a week), you paid a big chunk of change for a watered down track experience.

[12,000 RPM]

I'm mechanically inept.  The CAI requires a battery relocation among other things and I wouldn't know where to start with the suspension.


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Oooo I hope you know a competent shop. That sucks

If I was still up north I would consider coming to help out.

[GoCougs]

Civic update time!

Well, the CAI and the HFP suspension are still sitting in boxes in my parents basement.  I imagine that when they are both installed the car will be super duper awesome, but between crazy hours at work and the nearest shop being a 45 minute drive into the suburbs that's only open M-F, they shall remain in their boxes for the near future.

I did, however, decide to take the car drag racing for shits and giggles this past weekend and managed to get in about 5 runs before the serious racers showed up and held up the line with their cars always fucking breaking and needing to be rolled in and out and just all sorts of obnoxious stuff.  Its open night man, just drag the pickup that you used to hull your ride; it'll be able to do more than one run every hour and it won't ruin our night.

Anyway, the point is that a stock Si is just not that fast.  A stock SI driven by a totall nub is even slower.  I was with a group of EVOs that were consistently in the 13s, and one even dipped into the 12s, but the best I got was a 15.6 @ 87.55.  That was my first run of the night with traction control on and someone in the passenger seat, and while my traps got higher as the night wore on, my time got slower.  Apparently, stock SI's on all seasons can run as low as 14.8 @ 96ish by a brain dead driver all of the forums assure me, and even factoring in the forum brag factor of half a second and 4mph, I was still really slow.  Anyway, my times:

15.617 @ 87.55
16.047 @ 89.81
15.720 @ 90.99
16.548 @ 85.81
15.832 @ 88.63

I'll more than likely go again and hopefully my CAI will be installed by then so I can see how many awesome horespowers it was able to summon to the ground....aaaaand probably end up going slower.  But I'll sound faster!

So do those times have your reaction time not included?

It takes a lot of experience to drag a M/T car well, esp. the launch. A lot is decided in those first seconds (and why drag guys watch their 60' times so much).

Also, atmo conditions are a factor too - temp, elevation, humidity. Auto mags are almost always dragging at favorable atmo conditions.

[12,000 RPM]

Civic is hard to launch too. Always a bummer to get of the bike back into the car.... to little power and it bogs, to much and you're the asshole peeling off from the light. Bike is childs play to launch by comparison

[Cookie Monster]

I agree that dollars per minute, autoX isn't as much of a value as a track day, though arguably better than drag racing.  Even in my region, where we get low turn outs and typically get 7 runs per event on average (plus you can usually get 2-4 "fun runs" in for a couple of bucks at the end of an event).  But not everyone has a track nearby, and not all tracks do track days for $200.  If there was a track I could get onto for only $200 an event around here, I'd probably go that route vs autoX.  Watkins Glen is the closest track to me and it's far enough that I'd want a hotel room.  Their HPDE type events are almost exclusively on weekdays.  Cheapest I've seen is one of the driving schools offers a 1-time-only "taste of HPDE" that, for $75, gets you classroom instruction plus a single 20-minute track session with an instructor on day 1 of their 2-day school.  If you like it, you can pay the balance of the normal $500 HPDE event fee and continue with more sessions and get into day 2.  All other HPDEs are $400+ between entry fees and any annual dues for the clubs/organizations that run them.  The company that does the most HPDEs per year there isn't open to novices.  Only "pro open track" and "intermediate driving school" sessions, the latter requires a documented 10+ days of HPDE experience (or 5+ at WGI), and costs about $500, with a $300/day cost for those that qualify for the "open track" sessions.

Doing the math, for me as a novice to run all 4 events (8 days) at WGI next year that are open to novice drivers, it would cost me ~$2000 for entry fees plus ~$800-900 for hotel stays.  And I'm missing work and using vacation time to attend since all of those events are weekday events (autoX are always weekends).  Yeah, it works out to be a better value than a comparable dollar amount spent on autoX fees, but but it's a much steeper point of entry.  Just one event would run me close to $500, and if the weather is crappy that day (I point out that it rains here roughly 3 days a week), you paid a big chunk of change for a watered down track experience.

We can get a track pack here for around $2k that has 12-13 track events throughout the year, at various tracks. Of course, doing a track day every month is hell on your car, so it ends up being a lot more than that.

[12,000 RPM]

KArting it is

[Eye of the Tiger]

KArting it is

Street racing it is.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Desolate back roads it is.

[MX793]

We can get a track pack here for around $2k that has 12-13 track events throughout the year, at various tracks. Of course, doing a track day every month is hell on your car, so it ends up being a lot more than that.

I can only think of 3 road courses in NY right now (tons of dirt and asphalt ovals, though). 
1)  WGI, which only holds ~7 HPDE/Open track days a year (more if you happen to belong to either the BMW or Porsche club).  Costs covered in depth previously.
2)  NY Safety Track, which is really more of a motorcycle venue but also allows cars to run some days ($50/yr annual membership and $250 a day to run a car).  I don't think they hold any kind of HPDE or instructed events for cars, which would make me a little wary of just how well run or controlled the car sessions are.  I've heard from a co-worker who runs motorcycles there that it can be a little sketchy.
3)  Monticello Motor Club, which requires a $45,000 up-front "initiation fee" and then an additional $4100 a year for a 10 year "bronze membership".  That gets you 10 driving days (5 max weekend days) per year and puts you at last dibs for events/driving schools/rentals vs those that bought more expensive silver or gold memberships.  I'd need to make a couple times my current salary for that to be feasible...

All are far enough that a hotel stay would be in the cards.

They're building a new motorsport complex like 15 miles from me.  Road course, dirt oval (for both cars and horses), and autocross pad.  I keep hearing it will be open next year, but the guy in front of it came to a local SCCA meeting back in 2011 to tell us that the facility would be up and running by 2013 and they didn't even break ground until late 2014, so I have my doubts.  Local AutoX chapter is banking heavily on this place being our premier venue.  We've been very short on venues the past few years.  I'm hoping it's more accessible than WGI in terms of track days and HPDEs.  Hopefully cheaper than WGI as well, but even if it's not, not having to get a hotel room is a decent cost savings.

[12,000 RPM]

CMP is about 70 miles away and has HPDEs for $310/day, and motorcycle days for $150/day. GoPro has an outdoor kart complex about 30 miles from me that does sessions for $20 a pop. I just need to find a drag strip and I'm set

[MrH]

Civic is hard to launch too. Always a bummer to get of the bike back into the car.... to little power and it bogs, to much and you're the asshole peeling off from the light. Bike is childs play to launch by comparison

  Yeah, those damn 130 hp civics.  So tough to launch

[CALL_911]

Hahah

[12,000 RPM]

Its true

[AutobahnSHO]

on ramps it is

[AutobahnSHO]

low hp cars= easier to drive hard, harder to drive well= more fun

[Eye of the Tiger]

The long gravel driveway on my land that I haven't built yet it is.

[Xer0]

The Si is pretty easy to launch actually.  The shifter is very forgiving and the LSD helps a ton.  Get up to like 3K and let go of the clutch and you're off with very little wheel spin.  My issue was shift points.  On one run I was in first gear a half second too long and pinged cutoff.  The other runs I either shifted too soon or too late.


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[Xer0]

Update time!

The HFP suspension and cold air intact are installed.  I'm on my way to pick up the car right now and will post pictures/impressions when I get it.

I'll be taking it back to the drag strip and probably AutoX-ing next weekend so hopefully everything will come together nicely.


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