Hey Raza.... watch these before you buy that Abarth:

[2o6]

Ad hominem.

Your opinions make absolutely no sense.


If you want to deride Fiat and or Vw for making a poor quality car that may or may not breakdown, then fine. I'm not keen on Fiat or VW either.


But clearly you've never driven either car, or any of them at all - both of those cars are incredibly good driving, fun to drive little things. You can't emote or describe what you dislike about the car, you just say 'it's shit' over and over again.

[Char]

Your opinions make absolutely no sense.


If you want to deride Fiat and or Vw for making a poor quality car that may or may not breakdown, then fine. I'm not keen on Fiat or VW either.


But clearly you've never driven either car, or any of them at all - both of those cars are incredibly good driving, fun to drive little things. You can't emote or describe what you dislike about the car, you just say 'it's shit' over and over again.

I just did - I made a comparison to a car that was better in every objective way: Interior quality, dependability, power, handling, etc. Save fuel economy and wanting to repel the opposite sex, why would you consider one of these cars?

As a car enthusiast, I absolutely look down on people who own these cars as stupid consumers.

[2o6]

Have you driven one?


You look at quantatitve measures like a textbook.



Drive the car, then tell us how you feel.

[Char]

Have you driven one?


You look at quantatitve measures like a textbook.



Drive the car, then tell us how you feel.

I'm positive I've had more experience in the cars mentioned than you have - what leg do you literally have to stand on at this point?

[2o6]

Have you driven the car?

No?


Then shut the fuck up.

[Char]

Have you driven the car?

No?


Then shut the fuck up.

Do you thik the 500 will be in the same league as an E92? Have you ever even driven an E92? What about a Golf/Jetta GTI?
I'm positive that's a no to all the above - Time to take your own advice.

[2o6]

Have you driven the car?

No?

Then shut the fuck up.


I haven't driven an E92, no, but I have driven the GTI, Fiesta ST and Abarth 500. I don't know what he E92 drives like, nor was I comparing it.



And honestly, I don't think you know what the E92 drives like, either.

[Char]

Have you driven the car?

No?

Then shut the fuck up.


I haven't driven an E92, no, but I have driven the GTI, Fiesta ST and Abarth 500. I don't know what he E92 drives like, nor was I comparing it.



And honestly, I don't think you know what the E92 drives like, either.

I've Driven the GTI and the E92, surprise - the BMW is a better car. Do I think my opinion will change when I drive a hotrodded economy car...no.

What does a GTI offer over an Accord V6, or any other entry level luxury car (TSX) or a preowned GT car like the M3? Objectively speaking, what makes the 500 worth it's $25,000 price tag in light of its lackluster performance?

Until you can answer those questions without triggering an emotional response like a prepubescent girl, sit down, and shut the fuck up. I've long since been tired of your pointless banter.

[12,000 RPM]

What's unreasonable about buying a better car in the price range? What about a Fiat or GTI is worth their price? Oh the interior quality - for that price you're nearing E90 M3 prices which offer more features, power, reliability and prestige than 2 fwd shitboxes.
And I'm unreasonable.

An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either. So knocking someone for wanting to buy a new car and then suggesting something as expensive and high maintenance as an M3 is pretty fucking stupid and contradictory.

And 2o6's point is valid... you make character judgments on what people drive and like but don't have any actual context or experience for making car purchases, and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously

[2o6]

I've Driven the GTI and the E92, surprise - the BMW is a better car. Do I think my opinion will change when I drive a hotrodded economy car...no.

What does a GTI offer over an Accord V6, or any other entry level luxury car (TSX) or a preowned GT car like the M3? Objectively speaking, what makes the 500 worth it's $25,000 price tag in light of its lackluster performance?

Until you can answer those questions without triggering an emotional response like a prepubescent girl, sit down, and shut the fuck up. I've long since been tired of your pointless banter.

You haven't driven the car.


STFU.

[2o6]

An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either. So knocking someone for wanting to buy a new car and then suggesting something as expensive and high maintenance as an M3 is pretty fucking stupid and contradictory.

And 2o6's point is valid... you make character judgments on what people drive and like but don't have any actual context or experience for making car purchases, and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously

He really reminds me of Me, Rags, Ro, and all of us young people when we used to pretend we knew shit when we were like 15.

[12,000 RPM]

What does a GTI offer over an Accord V6, or any other entry level luxury car (TSX) or a preowned GT car like the M3?

GTI is just as fast as an Accord V6, while getting significantly better gas mileage and being a ton more practical. TSX is a good second and a half off from the GTI in a straight line and lower on grip as well. Also not as practical. M3 is not practical, and while the cost of entry is the same, the cost of ownership is significantly higher. And its added performance is not really accessible on the road- how often are you going to take a 400HP car to redline? Sure, the M3 is a more fun car to drive, but that doesn't mean it's a better car to own, in the context of Raza's individual tastes and needs. I guess it's not reasonable for me to expect a 15 year old to have the perspective to understand that other people might justifiably not see or want things the way they do though.

[MexicoCityM3]

An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either.

It's rational. Try me.

[12,000 RPM]

He really reminds me of Me, Rags, Ro, and all of us young people when we used to pretend we knew shit when we were like 15.

It's almost endearing.

I'm curious to know who let a 15 year old drive their M3 enthusiastically as well.

[Char]

An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either. So knocking someone for wanting to buy a new car and then suggesting something as expensive and high maintenance as an M3 is pretty fucking stupid and contradictory.

And 2o6's point is valid... you make character judgments on what people drive and like but don't have any actual context or experience for making car purchases, and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously

No, it's completely rational. You asked why I brought the BMW into this comparison of compacts, the logical answer was it's within the same pricerange. Because unlike carspin, most consumers will cross shop on features AND price, they don't care what "class" a car fits in. Next, the M3 is a performance vehicle, like the GTI and 500 pretend to be, if he was looking for something "practical", then why look at a VW with it's carbon buildup, shit reliablity and average fuel economy?

Finally, NOTHING 206 says is valid - he, much like you, spouts off stupid shit. I hate VW, I hate hatchbacks - get over it. You like stupid shitty cars, and that's fine too I suppose.

[12,000 RPM]

It's rational. Try me.

It's not rational, just like my car, or any high maintenance, high performance car is not rational. Irrational != bad, but Char is dead wrong in claiming the GTI is less rational than an M3.

[Char]

It's rational. Try me.

Don't bother, obviously no one buys an M3 as a daily driver. We all are better off driving VW Golf GTI's and 500s.
Besides, they are speaking from personal experience of owning a BMW and driving it - right?

[Char]

It's not rational, just like my car, or any high maintenance, high performance car is not rational. Irrational != bad, but Char is dead wrong in claiming the GTI is less rational than an M3.

By that statement, any car bigger and more powerful than a Versa is not rational. And what experience do you have with the M3 to make a statement in regards to ownership cost?

[Char]

Oh, and I thought I would mention the Accord is bigger, faster and has better EPA fuel economy figures when compared the GTI. 

[12,000 RPM]

No, it's completely rational. You asked why I brought the BMW into this comparison of compacts, the logical answer was it's within the same pricerange. Because unlike carspin, most consumers will cross shop on features AND price, they don't care what "class" a car fits in.

Raza has explicitly said he's looking for something practical and cheap to run to supplement his Z4. You are projecting your wants on to him.

Next, the M3 is a performance vehicle, like the GTI and 500 pretend to be, if he was looking for something "practical", then why look at a VW with it's carbon buildup, shit reliablity and average fuel economy?

He's had good experiences with VWs. The carbon buildup and reliability are non issues now with the TFSI motors. And if the VW's ~25MPG combined is "average", what is the Accord's 22MPG (with the same exact performance as the GTI) or the M3's 16? Either you have no idea what gas mileage different cars get, or you have a double standard when it comes to VW. Either way you're an idiot.

Finally, NOTHING 206 says is valid - he, much like you, spouts off stupid shit. I hate VW, I hate hatchbacks - get over it. You like stupid shitty cars, and that's fine too I suppose.

Hating VWs is one thing. Making yourself look like an idiot to try and convince everyone to hate it to the same irrational extremes you do is another.

[2o6]

Like I said, this kid is 15.

Maybe 16 with a beat to shit 325e.

[Char]

Raza has explicitly said he's looking for something practical and cheap to run to supplement his Z4. You are projecting your wants on to him.
He's had good experiences with VWs. The carbon buildup and reliability are non issues now with the TFSI motors. And if the VW's ~25MPG combined is "average", what is the Accord's 22MPG (with the same exact performance as the GTI) or the M3's 16? Either you have no idea what gas mileage different cars get, or you have a double standard when it comes to VW. Either way you're an idiot.
Hating VWs is one thing. Making yourself look like an idiot to try and convince everyone to hate it to the same irrational extremes you do is another.

If it's in bold, you're wrong about it.
Accord tested results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review
GTI test results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Do I spy the Accord's number for highway and AS TESTED as higher than the GTI> Couldn't be.

And what's this?
http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs4_carbon_valve_cleaning.html
A website providing a service to clean TFSI motor from carbon buildup. The same issue you can see for youself if you just...google searched it before making youself look like an idiot? It's fine though, I did the leg work for you.

[MexicoCityM3]

It's not rational, just like my car, or any high maintenance, high performance car is not rational. Irrational != bad, but Char is dead wrong in claiming the GTI is less rational than an M3.

Well, there is no better sedan for the same or less money that fits 4 people & luggage in a reasonably comfortable way, is luxurious with a premium badge (I care about that) and can hand lots of Porsches their ass on the track while being almost as fun to drive as them.

As an all-around balls-out car, it really can't be beat. Rationally. C&D said back then "All other manufacturers should stop what they're doing and just start making M3s".

Now the Z....

[12,000 RPM]

And what experience do you have with the M3 to make a statement in regards to ownership cost?

I don't need to own an M3 to know it uses 9 liters of 10W60, an expensive + specialized oil, which costs more than the GTI's 5 quarts of 0/5/10W40. I don't need to own an M3 to know that it has significantly larger tires and brakes than the GTI, and goes through them faster than the GTI does its tires. I don't need to own an M3 to know one-off repairs for it like clutches and radiators will be a lot more expensive than the GTI.

Not to mention, you have owned neither, but surprise surprise  you were pretty sure the GTI would be super expensive to maintain lmao. Hypocrite much?

Oh, and I thought I would mention the Accord is bigger, faster and has better EPA fuel economy figures when compared the GTI. 

Lol

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34315&id=34169&id=25906
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Not to mention all your strawmen (who said anything about the GTI/500 being in the same league as an M3?)

This is hard to watch.

[12,000 RPM]

If it's in bold, you're wrong about it.
Accord tested results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review
GTI test results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Do I spy the Accord's number for highway and AS TESTED as higher than the GTI> Couldn't be.

And what's this?
http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs4_carbon_valve_cleaning.html
A website providing a service to clean TFSI motor from carbon buildup. The same issue you can see for youself if you just...google searched it before making youself look like an idiot? It's fine though, I did the leg work for you.

Lol

OK lets tally up

Sporty- wrong about carbon buildup no longer being an issue for TFSI motors

Char- wrong about the kind of car Raza wants (which makes your whole endeavor here, even when you are right, wrong), wrong about an Accord V6 6 speed coupe being faster or equal to/better on gas than a GTI (your link is to an automatic differently tuned sedan lmao), wrong about a GTI being as expensive to run as an M3, wrong about anyone suggesting a GTI or 500 was in the same league as an M3, wrong about a GTI's fuel economy being below average.... hmmm did I miss anything guys?

[Char]

I don't need to own an M3 to know it uses 9 liters of 10W60, an expensive + specialized oil, which costs more than the GTI's 5 quarts of 0/5/10W40. I don't need to own an M3 to know that it has significantly larger tires and brakes than the GTI, and goes through them faster than the GTI does its tires. I don't need to own an M3 to know one-off repairs for it like clutches and radiators will be a lot more expensive than the GTI.

Not to mention, you have owned neither, but surprise surprise  you were pretty sure
Lol

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34315&id=34169&id=25906
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Not to mention all your strawmen (who said anything about the GTI/500 being in the same league as an M3?)

This is hard to watch.

Wait, what do I own? First it was a Nissan Quest, now it's no car, so how do you know what I have PERSONAL experience with since I never shared that information? And when is the last time your M3 needed it's radiator replaced? I know that I would be looking for a costly repair when the turbo fails, or some of the rubber fittings in the engine bay go because of the heat it generates - something that wouldn't be a problem with an M3. Hell, why no a 1 series N/A?

Didn't bother to click the links, because I posted a 2 different articles that backed up what I claimed. The Accord is faster (posting  a higher trap speed in the 1/4mile) and offers better highway fuel economy as well as better "as tested" fuel economy.
Painful indeed/

[Char]

Lol

OK lets tally up

Sporty- wrong about carbon buildup no longer being an issue for TFSI motors

Char- wrong about the kind of car Raza wants (which makes your whole endeavor here, even when you are right, wrong), wrong about an Accord V6 6 speed coupe being faster or equal to/better on gas than a GTI (your link is to an automatic differently tuned sedan lmao), wrong about a GTI being as expensive to run as an M3, wrong about anyone suggesting a GTI or 500 was in the same league as an M3, wrong about a GTI's fuel economy being below average.... hmmm did I miss anything guys?

I never mentioned any specific configuration (sedan/coupe) outside of engine choice (V6) Try again. My point still stands. Never suggested the GTI was in the same league as the M3, quite the contrary, never suggested the M3 was cheaper to own than the GTI either. So it seems you missed a lot, you might want to go back and try reading this again.

[12,000 RPM]

Wait, what do I own? First it was a Nissan Quest, now it's no car, so how do you know what I have PERSONAL experience with since I never shared that information? And when is the last time your M3 needed it's radiator replaced? I know that I would be looking for a costly repair when the turbo fails, or some of the rubber fittings in the engine bay go because of the heat it generates - something that wouldn't be a problem with an M3. Hell, why no a 1 series N/A?

Didn't bother to click the links, because I posted a 2 different articles that backed up what I claimed. The Accord is faster (posting  a higher trap speed in the 1/4mile) and offers better highway fuel economy as well as better "as tested" fuel economy.
Painful indeed/

Accord link you posted is to an automatic sedan- pretty much the opposite of what Raza wants.

And why not end the speculation and just post what you drive? Who let you drive their M3? Where did you drive it? Since when does how a car drives equate to all that matters about buying/owning it? Who in here said the GTI/500 were comparable to an M3 performance wise? Lol. You can't make new strawmen until you dig yourself out of the hole your  old ones made.

[Char]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34169&id=25906&id=34346

[12,000 RPM]

I never mentioned any specific configuration (sedan/coupe) outside of engine choice (V6) Try again. My point still stands. Never suggested the GTI was in the same league as the M3, quite the contrary, never suggested the M3 was cheaper to own than the GTI either. So it seems you missed a lot, you might want to go back and try reading this again.

Raza doesn't want an Accord V6 automatic or an M3 or cars like them. In fact, here is how he is approaching this purchase in his own words.

The plan was always to get something more city and all-weather friendly than the Z4 and give the Z4 a rest from the daily grind; plus, the in the neighborhood where school is, my Z4 would stick out like a neon sign that said "ROB ME". 

I was planning on spending 8-10K on a used car, but my brother convinced me to look new so I'd have a warranty.  This car convinced me to listen to him.

So what exactly IS your point?