2016 Jaguar XE

[12,000 RPM]

OK, my thoughts

ATS^2

I think my job, TTAC and Mr H being in the auto business have made me begin to really look at cars as cars, but also as business cases

What is the case for the XE... the segment is already at capacity, their other sedans are barely selling, and the most recent entry into the segment (ATS) is skrugglin

The design is good. It's one of the better looking cars in the segment. If they can actually get the V6S under 3300lbs I will be impressed... but given that the F-Type coupe is all aluminum and weighs about 200-300 more than that with the same engine I'm calling shenanigans. That would be like if my car weighed 300lb more than the G, wishful thinking.

The big questions are who and why though. Yes the segment's design levels are low and conservative, at least from the German side. But the 335i and S4 are great cars. The next C-Class has smartly given up fighting the 3 and carving its own very distinct and important niche, going back to what the OG 190E was. Q50 is a tech powerhouse and looks better every time I see it. Lexus IS seems to be the choice of dental hygenists and ricer douchebags. Etc. There's no room for another conventional sport sedan, especially with the ATS on the scene.

I think Jag really needs some SUVs if they want volume, but supposedly they are scared of stepping on Land Rover. I don't buy that. VWAG shows that smartly planned overlap makes the whole "cannibalization" fear bullshit. Nobody is cross shopping Macans and Q5s (both of which are outselling the whole Jaguar brand on a monthly basis, in the US) or even knows they are the same car. So I think Jag needs to rethink its strategy.

This isn't to say Jag makes bad cars. Well, the XF and XK can go. But the XJ and F-Type are two of the best designs of this era by a landslide. But you need more than good designs to have a sustainable business model today.

[ifcar]

The other Jaguar sedans are barely selling because they're rather old at this point. And the ATS's problems are its brand reputation, looks, powertrains, and cabin space -- the XE avoids at least two of those issues and maybe all four.

[12,000 RPM]

XF and current XJ never sold well. They're sellign as well now as they did when new.

[2o6]

FFS.     



And 206 does not like its appearance.......... well, we're all entitled to our opinions, of course, but the current trend for vulgar brash styling with more scoops, scallops and vents all over the place (like an 8 year old drawing a car on the back of an envelope as Autocar said of one recent culprit, and no, it was not the utterly hideous Lexus NX!) is not to all tastes. Certainly not to mine. There have been very few cars in recent years that you could call anything other than over-styled, awkward, or just plain brash. Certainly not "beautiful" in any accepted sense of the word.

I think the XE looks absolutely fantastic both outside and in.

Knowing what Mike Cross and his team have done to make recent Jags drive well, you can be sure that it will be pretty damn good to drive.

And Jaguar has consistently outscored BMW and Merc and Audi in JD Power surveys in the UK, so the ownership experience should be pretty good, too.

It is on the short list of cars to replace my S5 Sportback in 2016, along with the Maserati Ghibli. About the only car that might also make it there is the Alfa Giulia if it is available in time (looking doubtful).   

Where did I say I didn't like it? It's by no means a *bad* looking car, but a car that is so stylistically dull and uninteresting (paired with an interior that is equally dull) it doesn't stand out at all. The proportions and greenhouse are stolen straight from a 3-series. "Scoops and Scallops" and good styling aren't opposed to each other, nor do does one cancel out the other.

This car is fairly slab sided with a design that isn't very strong (compared to the F-type and XJ and maybe the XF). It isn't very memorable. I can't see it's target clientele, since it'll start higher than the ATS/3-series/C-class (but obviously be better equipped).


If I had the money, I can't see myself really considering the XE on any sort of terms.

[Byteme]

The other Jaguar sedans are barely selling because they're rather old at this point. And the ATS's problems are its brand reputation, looks, powertrains, and cabin space -- the XE avoids at least two of those issues and maybe all four.

Define barely selling.  See the below excerpts from a couple of articles.  Sure the F type accounts for some of the increase but "Barely Selling" is hardly the appropriate term to describe Jaguar sales world wide. 

From a January 2014 article:

Jaguar Land Rover Posts Record Sales for 2013

Demand for Luxury Vehicles Rises in All Big Markets
 
By Santanu Choudhury , Jan. 12, 2014 10:00 a.m. ET


Jaguar Land Rover, the U.K.-based unit of India's  Tata Motors Ltd.  sold a record 425,006 vehicles last year as demand for its luxury vehicles increased in all major markets including in China, North America and Europe.

Sales increased 19%, with both luxury brands recording large gains over the previous year. The unit includes models such as the Range Rover Evoque, the Jaguar F-Type and the Range Rover Sport.

Jaguar posted its strongest full-year sales performance since 2005 of 76,668 vehicles, a growth of 42%. Land Rover posted a 15% gain with sales of 348,338 vehicles.

Ralf Speth, Jaguar Land Rover'S chief executive, attributed the sales performance to "continuing strong demand for vehicles across the range."


and,

(WHITLEY, U.K.) - August 12, 2014 - Jaguar Land Rover, the UK's leading manufacturer of premium luxury vehicles delivered a positive sales performance in July, retailing 34,233 vehicles, up 8% versus the same period last year. During the first seven months of the year, Jaguar Land Rover has sold 274,605 vehicles, up 14%.

Retail growth continues year-on-year, with both brands seeing a balanced portfolio across all major sales regions.


Jaguar sales rose 13% year-on-year, retailing 49,656 vehicles in the calendar year to date and 6,069 in the month of July alone.

[2o6]

Is that 49K number WORLDWIDE?


That's pathetic.

[Tave]

Jaguar's small sales should concern us only to the extent that they might not be around forever at their current pace. So far they've managed to exceed all expectations and continue to put out stunning products, with the cost of ownership slowly creeping down via modernization. Why anyone would want to turn it into a CUV-pimp to chase Merc or Beemer volume is beyond me.

[SVT666]

Jag is doing what Cadillac should have.  They are building a sexy sedan that people will want to be seen in.

[2o6]

What?



Most of the response on the XE is a resounding "meh".

[Byteme]

Is that 49K number WORLDWIDE?


That's pathetic.

Jaguar has never been what one would call a volume builder.  In the context of the brand 49K vehicles over the first 7 months of 2014 is decent.

[2o6]

From the B-pillar backwards, it looks like a Holden Commodore.


And it reminds me hell of a lot of the Holden Torana concept in general proportion

[r0tor]

Looks fantastic.  340hp and under 3300lbs sounds absolutely fantastic.  Only concern are lack of manual transmission and what the price will be...

[Byteme]

Looks fantastic.  340hp and under 3300lbs sounds absolutely fantastic.  Only concern are lack of manual transmission and what the price will be...

Likely there will never be a manual.  The one price I've seen is 27,000 GBP in Britain. 

[12,000 RPM]

They are supposedly working on one for the F-Type.

[FoMoJo]

From the B-pillar backwards, it looks like a Holden Commodore.


And it reminds me hell of a lot of the Holden Torana concept in general proportion

That looks horrible.  Not at all similar to the XE.

[Hachee]

Well, I can't say it looks any different than I expected, based on the few spy shots of it.  It's exactly as I feared.  Which is not to say that's it bad looking at all, because it's not.  It's nice looking, cleanly styled, thankfully and refreshingly free of extraneous swoops and slashes.  But it's utterly anonymous and generic, looks like it could be from any car maker, and looks like an 8 year old XF, which was never all that special looking, IMO.  I can't help but see Pontiac G8 too.  While I definitely don't want Jaguars to be old fashioned looking, I do want them to be stunning and gorgeous.

I'm sure it'll drive well (I'd hope), but I just don't see this as being all that much more successful in its class as the XF has been, or even the XJ for that matter, which at least looks special (if not gorgeous) and has a fantastic interior.  New entrants to this class, like this and the ATS, really needed to hit it out of the park on all fronts, and they're just lacking in too many areas to make inroads against the default choices.  The Jag needs to be stunning enough for people to say "I WANT that" and buy it.

It's interesting that recent new Land & Range Rovers have been very distinctive, while this car is just not. 

[hotrodalex]

I like this. And the ATS. And the 3 series. And the E class. And the A4.

[Byteme]

They are supposedly working on one for the F-Type.

I'd hope I'm wrong. I prefer manuals.  Most don't though. 

[Colin]

What?



Most of the response on the XE is a resounding "meh".

No it's not.

Jaguar needs far greater sales volume. The F Type was the halo car but only ever going to be sold in tiny quantities. The XE is a competitor in a segment that sells in far greater quantity than the XF and XJ do. Of course they will never get to rival the numbers produced by BMW, Merc and Audi - they need a vast range of variants such as Estate, Cabrio, etc for that. But it is a start. The next phase after XE is the C-X17 SUV which is about a year away. That will give them some more volume. Jag is profitable, but the total revenue is not great enough, but if you look at what has been done with the Land-Rover side of the business, I would not bet on the same growth in sales, revenue and profit coming from Jag, but it will take time.  I don't think they are particularly dependent on America as the "make or break" market....

[Byteme]

I don't think they are particularly dependent on America as the "make or break" market....

The U. S. used to be Jaguar's primary market.  That title is now shifting to China and Jaguar is starting to do quite well there.

[2o6]

I like this. And the ATS. And the 3 series. And the E class. And the A4.

I'm cold on most of this segment.

[2o6]

The U. S. used to be Jaguar's primary market.  That title is now shifting to China and Jaguar is starting to do quite well there.

Which means a LWB XE is probably in the works. And probably an oddly sized 1.5T as well

[SVT666]

What?



Most of the response on the XE is a resounding "meh".

That's your response.  Most comments I have seen, including on this forum, think it looks great and is class leading in terms of styling.

[SVT666]

But it's utterly anonymous and generic, looks like it could be from any car maker, and looks like an 8 year old XF, which was never all that special looking, IMO.

Every time I see a Jag XF, I can't help but stare at it.  It's the best looking sedan in it's class.

[SVT666]

I'm cold on most of this segment.

That's because nobody builds anything in the segment that looks like a Juke.

[2o6]

That's because nobody builds anything in the segment that looks like a Juke.

Fuck off.

[SVT666]

Fuck off.

Fuck on, you get better results.

[CJ]

The inner tails look really bad, sort of like an afterthought. 

[SVT666]

The inner tails look really bad, sort of like an afterthought.

What is an "inner tail"?

[CJ]

The taillights on the trunk.