Lot of cool relevant new bikes at Intermot (Germany motorcycle show)

[12,000 RPM]

Ducati Scrambler- has the air cooled 796cc twin, gonna be cheap.



Kawasaki H2(R)- limited edition supercharged literbike. 300HP and not street legal in R form, rumored to be 200HP in normal street form. Possibly an indication of Kawi's next phase of engine development



Suzuki GSX-S750/S1000/S1000F- standards using old "street tuned" GSX-R engines. 750s are carryovers from Europe.


S1000F


S1000


S750

Interestingly the GSX-S750 is 8K... same price as the SFV650 and Ninja 650, and FZ-09. Kawi needs to do something with the 650. Make it a triple. Make the smallest bike a single, bump the 300 up to a 500.

Yami is also rumored to be debuting a new R1 concept.

Few other bikes there I couldn't care less about (adventure bikes and shit). These are the biggies.

[MX793]

The new Zuks look interesting, but they're a fair bit heavier than the new Yamaha FZ-0Xs.  The FZ-07 is under 400 lbs and the FZ-09 is only like 415.  The GSX-S750 is about 470, which isn't exactly heavy (at least by my standards), but will be noticeably heavier than an FZ (and those feel feather-light to me). 

The 1000 looks interesting as well.  I'm wondering what the powerband will be like given that it's using a retuned version of the mid-2000s GSXR motor.  Curious if it will be really peaky like the FZ-1 or more along the lines of the N1K (which is not a re-purposed supersport motor).  This literbike doesn't look quite as touring-capable as an N1k (passenger's seat looks smaller, no place to panniers), but I think would otherwise make a decent competitor as a "real world" liter-class sport bike.  And unlike the last, Bandit-based GSXs, these look to be using decent hardware for brakes and suspension as opposed to the budget-bin stuff the 650/1250 had.  Doesn't look like the 750 has more than shock preload adjustment for the suspension, though (the FZ-09 has some fork adjustment and rebound on the shock).  I'll definitely have to keep my eyes open for these at Daytona next year. 

Kawi's biggest problem is they don't really have anything between the Ninja 650 and Ninja 1000 that isn't a hardcore repli-racer.  It would be interesting if they brought over the Z800, or made a Ninja 800 based on that platform.

I'm really stoked to see real sportbikes making a comeback for those wanting a sporting bike without the hardcore repli-racer ergos.  The Ninja 1K, Honda CBR650F, this new GSX-1K...  I'd love to see a fully faired GSX-750 as well as Yamaha to offer up some fully or half-faired sportbikes based on their FZ-0X streetfighters.  Revive the Fazer!  FZ-R7 and FZ-R9!

[12,000 RPM]

I think Kawi needs to "BMWify" its standard engine lineup. Pick a bore/stroke and just add cylinders. I don't know about the 300 downgrading to a single; that might have to stay as is. But it would be cool for Kawi to have a Ninja 600 2 banger, 900 3 banger and 1200 4 banger. Naked, half faired, fully faired, little "monoposto" seat, usable but small 2 passenger seat, beefy 2 passenger + pannier seat. A modular platform with a bunch of shared parts would be cool and I think could spark interest.

The Ninja 650 as it stands is a terrible value proposition. At its 8K price point you have the FZ-09 & now the GSX-S750, with pretty much more everything everywhere you look. Yea the GSX-S750 is a 4 year old GSR-750, but the Ninja 650's roots go back to 06, and it is a mega budget piece. Feels cheap, rides cheap etc.

I think it's very cool that the industry and bike riders had a collective wake up call. Repli racer ergos on a street bike SUCKS. And for street speeds you don't really lose anything sitting up. It's really a no-brainer. I hope Kawi sorts its lineup out... if not though I might have to see about that GSX-S750. They have a "Z" version that will have upgraded suspension and components. Looks like a pretty good deal.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

That Kawi is nice! We need a big power RR bike to knock the S1000RR off it's throne!

[MX793]

I think it's very cool that the industry and bike riders had a collective wake up call. Repli racer ergos on a street bike SUCKS. And for street speeds you don't really lose anything sitting up. It's really a no-brainer. I hope Kawi sorts its lineup out... if not though I might have to see about that GSX-S750. They have a "Z" version that will have upgraded suspension and components. Looks like a pretty good deal.

The "Z" version gets the same suspension as the regular model, unfortunately.  It's just an appearance package.  It doesn't even come with the Yoshi exhaust or belly pan that the Euro model gets.

Still waiting for somebody other than Triumph to offer higher-end, adjustable suspension bits on a midsize sport/standard package...

[12,000 RPM]

The Street Triple R is a bargain, but even still, if you put $1K into the suspension of any of its competitors (FZ09, GSX-S750), you will have bikes with nearly as good suspensions and more power/torque. And the suspension would be custom for you, which can be an issue for certain riders.

[Speed_Racer]

Just announced a few days ago, the Yamaha R3. 300cc class parallel twin. The small displacement wars are heating up!

[MX793]

Rumor has it Yamaha has another bike using the FZ-09's triple in the works.  Supposedly some sort of sport or adventure touring bike.  Not sure if it'll be more like a BMW F800/Honda VFR800 style bike or something more like the Versys or V-Strom.  Also talk of the FZ-07's twin getting use in some kind of adventure bike (makes sense as a baby Tenere).  I'm hoping the triple lands into something more sportbike than adventure bike, especially if the twin does indeed find itself in an adventure style bike.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea I would love something like a Yamaha version of the Sprint ST or VFR800. Significantly lighter though, of course. Wet weight of 450lbs with a legit rear seat and more sporty seating position would be pretty much perfect

[MX793]

Yea I would love something like a Yamaha version of the Sprint ST or VFR800. Significantly lighter though, of course. Wet weight of 450lbs with a legit rear seat and more sporty seating position would be pretty much perfect

450 might be a stretch once they beef up the subframe to accommodate bags and a larger passenger seat, a windscreen/fairing, and a larger fuel tank (<4 gallons isn't going to cut it on anything with touring intentions, need at least 5 gallons).  But they shouldn't have any trouble keeping it solidly under 500 lbs.  An F800GT is 470 wet (without bags).  Yamaha should be able to match that.

And less expensive.  The VFR's price is ridiculous.  Just read Motorcycle-USA's "middleweight" sport-touring comparo with the VFR and N1K.  The as-tested price on the VFR was $1200 more than the N1K, and that's despite the N1K's pricy (but well designed) hard bags.  And the VFR is essentially a revised version of the 2002 model (new fairing, new subframe, new exhaust, new radiators, revised cams).  It's is still running right-side-up (female slider) style forks!  And they completely botched the single-sided swingarm by hanging the muffler on the open side, so you have to take the muffler off to get the wheel off.  Kind of defeats the purpose, as well as obscures one of the bike's more unique styling features.  Granted, Triumph did the same thing on the later years of the Sprint and on the Trophy.

And it's a real pity Triumph replaced the Sprint ST with the larger (and quite a bit heavier) Trophy.  My cousin's husband had the last iteration of ST (before they phased it out for the slightly longer, slightly less sporty Sprint GT).  It was a sharp bike and by liter+ sport-touring standards, was relatively light (<550 lbs).  I had considered replacing my Bandit with one, but they discontinued them.  The N1K is something of a spiritual successor, IMO (relatively light, similar power, sportier side of sport touring).

[MX793]

Just announced a few days ago, the Yamaha R3. 300cc class parallel twin. The small displacement wars are heating up!

KTM entered the ring with their RC390 as well.

[12,000 RPM]

RC390 has my attention. With an exhaust and aluminum wheels it should be able to dip under 300lbs fueled up. A Moto3 bike is about 180lbs wet though so there's still more progress to be made.

[Cookie Monster]

How are the ergonomics on those 300s? Anything under 500 cc just doesn't seem like it'd fit but these 300s are so tempting.

[MX793]

How are the ergonomics on those 300s? Anything under 500 cc just doesn't seem like it'd fit but these 300s are so tempting.

They're designed to accommodate adults.  Engine size and chassis size don't necessarily go hand in hand (i.e. a 600 supersport isn't any smaller than a 1000 as far as ergos go).  They're sportbikes, so they'll be on the more compact side of the spectrum.

[12,000 RPM]

450 might be a stretch once they beef up the subframe to accommodate bags and a larger passenger seat, a windscreen/fairing, and a larger fuel tank (<4 gallons isn't going to cut it on anything with touring intentions, need at least 5 gallons).  But they shouldn't have any trouble keeping it solidly under 500 lbs.  An F800GT is 470 wet (without bags).  Yamaha should be able to match that.

And less expensive.  The VFR's price is ridiculous.  Just read Motorcycle-USA's "middleweight" sport-touring comparo with the VFR and N1K.  The as-tested price on the VFR was $1200 more than the N1K, and that's despite the N1K's pricy (but well designed) hard bags.  And the VFR is essentially a revised version of the 2002 model (new fairing, new subframe, new exhaust, new radiators, revised cams).  It's is still running right-side-up (female slider) style forks!  And they completely botched the single-sided swingarm by hanging the muffler on the open side, so you have to take the muffler off to get the wheel off.  Kind of defeats the purpose, as well as obscures one of the bike's more unique styling features.  Granted, Triumph did the same thing on the later years of the Sprint and on the Trophy.

And it's a real pity Triumph replaced the Sprint ST with the larger (and quite a bit heavier) Trophy.  My cousin's husband had the last iteration of ST (before they phased it out for the slightly longer, slightly less sporty Sprint GT).  It was a sharp bike and by liter+ sport-touring standards, was relatively light (<550 lbs).  I had considered replacing my Bandit with one, but they discontinued them.  The N1K is something of a spiritual successor, IMO (relatively light, similar power, sportier side of sport touring).

It does seem like the pendulum is swinging back to the side of reason. The GSX-S1000's curb weight is currently "TBD" but I bet it will come in under 500 lbs. One thing I am wondering is what material these bikes are made from.... I am guessing the Z1000 platform has a steel frame instead of an aluminum one to save costs, at the expense of weight. Realistically it's probably not that big of a deal.

And yea, Honda does have a penchant for overpricing its bikes. Its CB1000F is about $2K too much comparable bikes, from what I remember. It only makes about ~110 RWHP- not much more if at all than bikes like the FZ09 and the GSX-S750 (which is really the GSR-750 abroad). That CB1300 is similarly overpriced on paper. Honda has the right idea on its low end... it needs to bring some of those cost cutting strategies up top. I can't do a CB500 but I would be cool with a 100RWHP Honda naked for ~$8K.

[12,000 RPM]

How are the ergonomics on those 300s? Anything under 500 cc just doesn't seem like it'd fit but these 300s are so tempting.

They are good. They may be a little cramped for you. They are like my bike (650R with Renthal low bars)- definitely upright, but relatively sporty.

Check this site out www.cycle-ergo.com

[MX793]

It does seem like the pendulum is swinging back to the side of reason. The GSX-S1000's curb weight is currently "TBD" but I bet it will come in under 500 lbs. One thing I am wondering is what material these bikes are made from.... I am guessing the Z1000 platform has a steel frame instead of an aluminum one to save costs, at the expense of weight. Realistically it's probably not that big of a deal.

Z1000 has an aluminum frame.  I'm guessing the naked GSX comes in similar to the Z1000 at around 490 lbs and the faired version will be just over 500 lbs.  Maybe a little less.  I'm not sure how much beefier the subframe is between the faired and naked GSXs.  The Ninja 1K has a heavier subframe than the Z1000 to support luggage and a larger passenger seat, which is largely why it's heavier than the Z1K.

And yea, Honda does have a penchant for overpricing its bikes. Its CB1000F is about $2K too much comparable bikes, from what I remember. It only makes about ~110 RWHP- not much more if at all than bikes like the FZ09 and the GSX-S750 (which is really the GSR-750 abroad). That CB1300 is similarly overpriced on paper. Honda has the right idea on its low end... it needs to bring some of those cost cutting strategies up top. I can't do a CB500 but I would be cool with a 100RWHP Honda naked for ~$8K.

It's not just their upper end.  The CBR650F is the priciest bike in class by a pretty big margin and really doesn't offer anything more than the others.  Similar power and sophistication.

Honda CBR650 -               $8500 ($9000 for the ABS model)
Kawasaki Ninja 650 ABS - $7600
Suzuki SFV650 -               $7700
Yamaha FZ-07 -               $7000
Yamaha FZ6R -                $7800

[Cookie Monster]

When is the RC390 coming out? I want to save up for one.

[MX793]

When is the RC390 coming out? I want to save up for one.

That bike has legit supersport ergos.  I think you'll find it much more cramped and generally less comfortable than the Honda or Kawi 300s.

[Cookie Monster]

That bike has legit supersport ergos.  I think you'll find it much more cramped and generally less comfortable than the Honda or Kawi 300s.

Well, it'd be used just on weekends... not for commuting.

Although, I looked up some insurance rates and I'm definitely not getting a motorcycle anymore. I was quoted $3k/year for a CBR500R and $1500/yr for a Honda Grom.

[MX793]

Well, it'd be used just on weekends... not for commuting.

Although, I looked up some insurance rates and I'm definitely not getting a motorcycle anymore. I was quoted $3k/year for a CBR500R and $1500/yr for a Honda Grom.

No way it's that much unless you're quoting full coverage.  Liability-only shouldn't be more than a few hundred a year.  My Ninja is only ~$175 a year, and it's in one of the worst insurance groups (liter+ sportbikes).  Granted, full coverage was in the thousands/year even with the highest possible deductible and my relatively lengthy and clean riding record.

And serious repli-racer ergos suck if you ride more than 40 minutes and are awful at low speeds.

[Cookie Monster]

No way it's that much unless you're quoting full coverage.  Liability-only shouldn't be more than a few hundred a year.  My Ninja is only ~$175 a year, and it's in one of the worst insurance groups (liter+ sportbikes).  Granted, full coverage was in the thousands/year even with the highest possible deductible and my relatively lengthy and clean riding record.

And serious repli-racer ergos suck if you ride more than 40 minutes and are awful at low speeds.

Oh. I had collision and comprehensive ($500 deductible). Without those it's super dirt cheap. I paid $72/year for the Nighthawk with liability only.

Do you think it's a good idea to run liability only on a new bike? If it gets stolen I'd be fucked. With the Nighthawk I didn't care but I don't want someone to walk away with a new bike. Granted, I do have a garage, but still.

[hotrodalex]

If you have a garage you'll be fine. Maybe.

With the cost of insurance vs. new bike, I'd take the risk and only get liability.

[Cookie Monster]

I'm so tempted to fart around town on a grom. I should go take a look at some bikes next weekend.

[MX793]

If you have a garage you'll be fine. Maybe.

With the cost of insurance vs. new bike, I'd take the risk and only get liability.

I'd never get collision on a bike, though I'm not sure if you can separate comp and collision with bike insurance (I know my insurer doesn't).  Comp protects you from theft, but if the bike spends pretty much every moment you're not riding it parked in a locked garage, the risk of theft is pretty low.  I'm assuming the RC690 is going to be priced similarly to a CBR500 (~$6000).  If you're paying $3000 a year for for insurance, you'll have paid enough in insurance premiums after 2 years to replace it with another of the same vintage if it does get swiped.  The money saved after 3 years would buy you a brand new bike.  Not worth it, IMO.

It boggles my mind that anyone would finance a bike (especially a sportbike) given what full coverage insurance costs.  It's far, far cheaper to save your pennies for a year and pay cash and then just get liability coverage.  Too many short-sighted, month-to-month spenders, I guess...

[Cookie Monster]

Wait, if it's financed I can't get liability only?

Well damn. Honda has a 2.99% apr loan on their bikes.

[hotrodalex]

I'm so tempted to fart around town on a grom. I should go take a look at some bikes next weekend.

I thought about one of those but the wheels are so tiny and look kinda silly.

[MX793]

Wait, if it's financed I can't get liability only?

Well damn. Honda has a 2.99% apr loan on their bikes.

I've never encountered a lender that didn't require full coverage on a financed vehicle.  If you total the vehicle and then can't afford to pay off the loan, the lender has nothing of value to repossess and resell to get their money back.

[Cookie Monster]

I've never encountered a lender that didn't require full coverage on a financed vehicle.  If you total the vehicle and then can't afford to pay off the loan, the lender has nothing of value to repossess and resell to get their money back.

Damn. Guess I'll forget a bike, then. I can easily save up the money for it in a couple months, but at that point I'd rather just dump that money into my student loans. I wanted to get a CBR500R or Grom if the payments were ~$200/mo, but not if insurance is going to rape me.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Damn. Guess I'll forget a bike, then. I can easily save up the money for it in a couple months, but at that point I'd rather just dump that money into my student loans. I wanted to get a CBR500R or Grom if the payments were ~$200/mo, but not if insurance is going to rape me.

Get cheap bike. Around $1500 gets a nice used 2 wheel thing.