The Official Sixth Gen Camaro Thread!

[MX793]

It's not so much the fuel economy as carbon emissions.  Europe puts a lot of emphasis on kg of carbon dioxide emitted.. The two are obviously linked, as the amount of fuel burned is directly tied to CO2 emissions.

[12,000 RPM]

Their emission test must boil down to idling in traffic

[MX793]

Their emission test must boil down to idling in traffic

Or a lot of light throttle application.  Europe is also less concerned with NOx than the US.

[93JC]

... which is why diesels became popular over there.

[MX793]

Finally watched the M/T comparo.  They're right, the M4 sounds pretty awful and the "engine sound simulator" doesn't help matters in the least.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Finally watched the M/T comparo.  They're right, the M4 sounds pretty awful and the "engine sound simulator" doesn't help matters in the least.

80 Large and no leather seats? Crazy!

[CALL_911]

Man I want a '16 SS so badly

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Man I want a '16 SS so badly

Yeah I'm digging this car too! But it's out of my price range (Self imposed 30K limit) right now! Even with my GM discount....

[MX793]

Camaro models across the board are priced too high for the pony car segment.  Sales seem to reflect this, as the car is struggling to pick up any kind of sales volume even after 4+ months of being on the market.  February sales were actually lower than last February despite a much milder winter and being an all-new model this year.

[GoCougs]

GM I'm sure had no delusions that they'd sell less 6th gen Camaros given the move upmarket. But would they be happy doing so for more total profit?

[GoCougs]

Man I want a '16 SS so badly

I think it is quite literally the best car of 2016.

[12,000 RPM]

GM I'm sure had no delusions that they'd sell less 6th gen Camaros given the move upmarket. But would they be happy doing so for more total profit?

Mustang went upmarket too though, at least in build quality and design. As a result sales are way up, even a year in, over brand new Camaro sales

We can bench race till the cows come home but ultimately livability matters.... Camaro demands too much for performance most folks won't even get to use very often

[GoCougs]

Man I want a '16 SS so badly

I just wish my life could handle a two-door car. I'd be all over this in a heartbeat.

If the ATS-V was available with the LT1 that could be a contender. I'm still (nearly) convinced I need AWD but for such a potent package I might rethink that.

[MrH]

Cougs, just get one and an SUV for mountain bike duty.

[GoCougs]

I definitely need 4 doors for daily duty though.

[BimmerM3]

I definitely need 4 doors for daily duty though.

Since when does a single, semi-retired guy with no kids need four doors for daily duty?

[12,000 RPM]

I think the next SS will be on the Alpha platform. If not, it SHOULD be.

[GoCougs]

Since when does a single, semi-retired guy with no kids need four doors for daily duty?

I carry a fair amount of stuff and frequently carry people when doing my daily out-n-about.

[MX793]

March sales numbers are out and while the Camaro's sales numbers are starting to climb, they are nowhere near the 6g Mustang.  Mustang outsold Camaro and Challenger combined (nearly 2x Camaro).



S550 Mustang hit dealerships in November 2014.  Note the huge surge in sales at that time.  Camaro 6 hit dealers in November 2015.  Sales are pretty much flat with a early spring increase in March akin to what the Challenger is seeing.  It's obviously a great driving and performing car, and better than the outgoing, and very popular, 5th generation in pretty much every respect, but it's not resonating with consumers.  Nearest I can figure is it's the price.  It's priced itself too high for the blue collar folks who were buying them and doesn't have the brand name allure to sway the folks buying BMW M, Merc AMG, and Audi S/RS cars.

[12,000 RPM]

It's priced itself too high for the blue collar folks who were buying them and doesn't have the brand name allure to sway the folks buying BMW M, Merc AMG, and Audi S/RS cars.

A familiar story 

But it will sweep the comparos!

[SJ_GTI]

Camry outsells the 3-series and A4 combined!

[Galaxy]

Camaro 6 hit dealers in November 2015.  Sales are pretty much flat with a early spring increase in March akin to what the Challenger is seeing.  It's obviously a great driving and performing car, and better than the outgoing, and very popular, 5th generation in pretty much every respect, but it's not resonating with consumers.  Nearest I can figure is it's the price.  It's priced itself too high for the blue collar folks who were buying them and doesn't have the brand name allure to sway the folks buying BMW M, Merc AMG, and Audi S/RS cars.

The starting price of the Camaro is between the Malibu and Impala, that does not seem that high.

[MX793]

The starting price of the Camaro is between the Malibu and Impala, that does not seem that high.

Camaro is thousands more than a comparable Mustang, especially the V8 models. 

Mustang Pricing (incl destination):
Base V6:  $24.1K
Base Ecoboost:  $25.6K
Premium Ecoboost:  $29.6K
Base V8:  $32.4K
Premium V8:  $36.4K

Camaro Pricing (incl destination)
Base 1LT 2.0T:  $26.7K
Base 1LT V6:  $28.2K
Premium 2LT 2.0T:  $30.8K
Premium 2LT V6:  $32.3K
Base 1SS V8:  $37.3K
Premium 2SS V8:  $42.3K

[GoCougs]

As I had stated some time ago I did not expect the 6th gen to sell as well as the 5th gen, and that is even before knowing the 6th gen would be further upmarket of the Mustang than even the 5th gen was. The unique situation (at least WRT Mustangs and Camaros) for MY2010 was the S197 had been on sale for six years, and was very popular, but that also means that by that point is was pretty stale, esp. not having been updated in either looks or performance. Then along comes the Camaro, to pretty everyone's surprise, looking exactly like the concept car, with hugely more capable performance in either V6 or V8 form, and then proceeded to outsell the Mustang for five years straight. The 6th gen Camaro doesn't look nearly as striking as the 5th gen, at least relatively speaking, and add to that the big move upmarket, it was only bound to sell less. Ford has also been hitting fleet sales hugely - about double the rate of GM, and the Mustang has always sold more to fleets (don't know the exact numbers for Mustangs though).

All in all, my hunch is GM doesn't care too much about sales figures. 99% bet is it had no delusions about the drop in Camaro sales, and was pretty sure GM did not expect the ATS-V, CTS-V, CTS-Vsport, Z06, ZL1, Z28, etc., to be top/big sellers, either. Market share counts for a lot, sure, but at the end of the day the name of the game is the long term play in branding and strategy. GM has a huge thing going with its performance cars, esp. leveraging platforms and power trains - something that eludes both Ford and Chrysler. Sure, none of GM's cars are best sellers but they all are world class if not best in class. Mary Barra knows what she is doing, and I'm a big fan.

[12,000 RPM]

U would think having the best performing cars in the performance car class = dominating that class though

GM still has a lot to learn with regards to making their performance cars livable. Bizarre as their mainstreamers have become pretty good in that regard- someone in the company "gets it". We are in an era where a pony car has to be as livable as a compact to really sell.... a baseline of performance is important, but somewhat secondary.

Truthfully if the next SS is reasonably priced, doesn't look like a Malibu and is built on the Alpha platform I see it taking a huge bite out of sales from the Camaro SS and an appreciable bite out of the ATS-V.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

"GM still has a lot to learn..."

That pretty much sums up the last 50 years, hopefully the next 50 will be better.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

No matter how good of a car GM makes the haters are gonna hate.....

[FoMoJo]

No matter how good of a car GM makes the haters are gonna hate.....

Nah...car guys know car guys aren't haters...even if they are MOPAR or Fast Ford fans...or even some of those import fanboys.  We all know that GM makes some good stuff, it's just seldom that they put it all together in an exceptional package.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

We are in an era where a pony car has to be as livable as a compact to really sell....

When has a Pony Car been as livable as a Corolla/Civic/etc....

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Nah...car guys know car guys aren't haters...even if they are MOPAR or Fast Ford fans...or even some of those import fanboys.  We all know that GM makes some good stuff, it's just seldom that they put it all together in an exceptional package.

The Camaro/Corvette/SS/V Series Caddys are perfectly fine aside from the price (my budget) of V8 powered Camaros. Sure there's gonna be a quirk or too but that with ANY car. Challenger is too heavy, Mustang has a Line Lock that VOIDS your warranty if you use it, Camaro is hard to see out of, etc......