The Official Sixth Gen Camaro Thread!

[Raza]

Camaro is hard to see out of, etc......

And hard to look at! 

[12,000 RPM]

When has a Pony Car been as livable as a Corolla/Civic/etc....

The Mustang has been decent since the SN95 and the Challenger is def livable. The Camaro has been behind in livability since the 3rd gen IMO

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

And hard to look at! 

[CaminoRacer]

And hard to look at! 

[68_427]

Chevy ain't fucking around

[Laconian]

Ed Hardy Camaro?

[MrH]

It's hard enough to see out of the thing, but now they put Carscoop decals on the windshield?  GM guys don't understand safety.

[12,000 RPM]

Safety is for pussies. All about them 0-xxx times

[CaminoRacer]

It's hard enough to see out of the thing, but now they put Carscoop decals on the windshield?  GM guys don't understand safety.

I just wanna know how they put them on the wheels. Must be those special anti-spinner wheels.

[MX793]

It's hard enough to see out of the thing, but now they put Carscoop decals on the windshield?  GM guys don't understand safety.

This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love carscoop.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

All the guys that over paid for GT350 Rustangs just shit their pants..

[MX793]

All the guys that over paid for GT350 Rustangs just shit their pants..

Until GM reveals that, like the last one, the new Z28 will sticker for $70K+.

[GoCougs]

2017 Z/28 prototype crashes at the 'Ring (process starts at 1:35):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyWNiKpcNoQ

No ABS so something wasn't right but that's neither here nor there. What is excellent news is this sure sounds like a N/A motor.

GM has said for some time they didn't upgrade the LS7 because it couldn't meet new emissions (bigger cylinders = harder to control combustion/emissions). In the street driving in the beginning this sounds like an LT1 or derivative (they have a fairly distinct tractorish sound at easy throttle owing to DI) and not an LS7. GM mustered 505 hp out of the LS7 some 11 years ago so my hope is they can muster a fair bit more than 455 hp out of the N/A LT1.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

That motor sounds delicious!! What Flat Plane Crank?!?!?!!? 

[MrH]

I want an LT7. A 7 liter version of the LT1

[GoCougs]

Flat plane crank, huge DOHC heads, and still no quicker than a lowly $37k Camaro SS, at least 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile...

The Z/28, if it's priced like the GT350 (~$50k base) and not like the previous Z/28, is going to be monster.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Flat plane crank, huge DOHC heads, and still no quicker than a lowly $37k Camaro SS, at least 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile...

The Z/28, if it's priced like the GT350 (~$50k base) and not like the previous Z/28, is going to be monster.

You got that right.....

[GoCougs]

I want an LT7. A 7 liter version of the LT1

We can hope but my bet is an LT1 with ~475-500 hp. That would still be plenty - and should get a lightened Camaro into the 11s, which is mighty damned quick (and way out in front of the GT350).

[MX793]

My money's on LT4.  Sounds a bit like the Z06.  I swear I hear a hint of SC whine in some of the shots where the car is approaching the camera.

[MX793]

Flat plane crank, huge DOHC heads, and still no quicker than a lowly $37k Camaro SS, at least 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile...

The Z/28, if it's priced like the GT350 (~$50k base) and not like the previous Z/28, is going to be monster.

Car wasn't built to run 0-60 or 1/4 mile.  It's geared for road racing.  It also doesn't have the low end grunt of the larger LT motor.  That flat plane crank and those big multi-valve heads are all about mid to top end breathing, and it came at the cost of the bottom end power since it doesn't have VVL.  The 5.0 Coyote makes more low-end grunt.  A regular Mustang GT will walk from a GT350 in a 30-70 top gear roll-on by ~4.5 seconds.  And the GT350 has a [very] slightly shorter 6th gear.

[GoCougs]

I'd be surprised if it were the LT4, but logically makes sense, as it is the the only other hi-po V8 currently in GM's stable, and GM is in the habit of using a motors for quite a stretch at and the LT1 only just debuted in MY2014. Practically speaking, we already know a ZL1 is coming with the LT4, and a Z/28 with an LT4 just doesn't seem like much differentiation. Plus, forced induction, esp. superchargers, are notoriously fickle in legit track sessions.

[CaminoRacer]

I can't see Chevy debuting a new motor for the Z/28, though. That's typically reserved for the Corvette, at least in recent history.

[GoCougs]

Car wasn't built to run 0-60 or 1/4 mile.  It's geared for road racing.  It also doesn't have the low end grunt of the larger LT motor.  That flat plane crank and those big multi-valve heads are all about mid to top end breathing, and it came at the cost of the bottom end power since it doesn't have VVL.  The 5.0 Coyote makes more low-end grunt.  A regular Mustang GT will walk from a GT350 in a 30-70 top gear roll-on by ~4.5 seconds.  And the GT350 has a [very] slightly shorter 6th gear.

I disagree. In this day and age (DI, VVT/L, high CR, lots of gears) there is no need for such a trade off - all cars should have power across most of the rev range at most road speeds (and by and large they do - from a Camry to a Corvette to a Ferrari).

Simply look at the 5th gen Z/28 vs. GT350R track performance. Sure, the GT350R is ahead, but despite a notably better power/weight ratio, it's not ahead by a lot - it comes down to the car - things like lighter weight, newer chassis, bigger rubber and MagneRide.

IMO Ford got enamored with the idea ("flat plane crank!" and "8,250 rpm redline!") rather than the result. A Coyote with VVT/L and DI and a bit of massaging, with say, 475 hp, would be as quick or quicker in every measure, and be more tractable.

[CaminoRacer]

IMO Ford got enamored with the idea ("flat plane crank!" and "8,250 rpm redline!") rather than the result. A Coyote with VVT/L and DI and a bit of massaging, with say, 475 hp, would be as quick or quicker in every measure, and be more tractable.

I agree. But there is something to say for creating a unique vehicle with personality. It makes life interesting.

[MX793]

I disagree. In this day and age (DI, VVT/L, high CR, lots of gears) there is no need for such a trade off - all cars should have power across most of the rev range at most road speeds (and by and large they do - from a Camry to a Corvette to a Ferrari).

Simply look at the 5th gen Z/28 vs. GT350R track performance. Sure, the GT350R is ahead, but despite a notably better power/weight ratio, it's not ahead by a lot - it comes down to the car - things like lighter weight, newer chassis, bigger rubber and MagneRide.

IMO Ford got enamored with the idea ("flat plane crank!" and "8,250 rpm redline!") rather than the result. A Coyote with VVT/L and DI and a bit of massaging, with say, 475 hp, would be as quick or quicker in every measure, and be more tractable.

Ferrari uses VVL.

It's rare for a high specific output motor without VVL to both have a large RPM band (8000+ RPM) and a uniform torque spread from near idle to the top.  BMW S54 is about the only one I can think of off the top of my head that pulls it off.  Corvette and Camry have a fat spread, but their available RPM band isn't especially wide.  Setting aside the realities of valve float, if you pulled the rev-limiters on those cars and let them wind out to 8000+ RPM, neither would be making very good power north of 7500 RPM (or even 7000 RPM).  Both peak before their respective 6500 RPM redlines.  If you extrapolate the Corvette's power curve beyond its rev limiter, it will be making about as much power at 7000 RPM as it does at 4000, about 100 hp less than peak and by 8000 RPM it would be making about the same as it does at 2000.  Give it enough cam to breath at those RPMs and you'll lose something off the bottom.

I agree that they could have gotten comparable performance without going to the ultra-high rev'ing FPC motor, though I applaud them for making something unique. 

I'm still scratching my head as to why none of the American automakers have ventured into VVL yet.  Every other major automaker has it and uses it.

[68_427]

2017 Z/28 prototype crashes at the 'Ring (process starts at 1:35):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyWNiKpcNoQ

No ABS so something wasn't right but that's neither here nor there. What is excellent news is this sure sounds like a N/A motor.

GM has said for some time they didn't upgrade the LS7 because it couldn't meet new emissions (bigger cylinders = harder to control combustion/emissions). In the street driving in the beginning this sounds like an LT1 or derivative (they have a fairly distinct tractorish sound at easy throttle owing to DI) and not an LS7. GM mustered 505 hp out of the LS7 some 11 years ago so my hope is they can muster a fair bit more than 455 hp out of the N/A LT1.

Interesting because the first video that was seen a couple days ago you could clearly hear a supercharger.  Maybe they're testing both.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Nice to see GM back at the ring. Hopefully the camaro times are good enough to use in marketing...........*cough* C7 Z06.

[12,000 RPM]

Flat plane crank, huge DOHC heads, and still no quicker than a lowly $37k Camaro SS, at least 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile...

The Z/28, if it's priced like the GT350 (~$50k base) and not like the previous Z/28, is going to be monster.

A Porsche GT3 costs more than a GT-R and is no faster. Some people actually drive cars, rather than just bench race. I imagine the Ring crash was caused by dude not being able to see the corner. Maybe they will equip the Z28 with VR goggles or screens instead of windows.

[GoCougs]

I agree. But there is something to say for creating a unique vehicle with personality. It makes life interesting.

I guess, a bit. But my points are, one, if/when Chevy does come out with a hotter LT1 or an "LT7" the Z/28 will be more interesting by that definition, and two, there would probably be more room for improvement in a VVT/L/reworked Coyote than the Voodoo, as Ford tries to keep up.

[GoCougs]

Ferrari uses VVL.

It's rare for a high specific output motor without VVL to both have a large RPM band (8000+ RPM) and a uniform torque spread from near idle to the top.  BMW S54 is about the only one I can think of off the top of my head that pulls it off.  Corvette and Camry have a fat spread, but their available RPM band isn't especially wide.  Setting aside the realities of valve float, if you pulled the rev-limiters on those cars and let them wind out to 8000+ RPM, neither would be making very good power north of 7500 RPM (or even 7000 RPM).  Both peak before their respective 6500 RPM redlines.  If you extrapolate the Corvette's power curve beyond its rev limiter, it will be making about as much power at 7000 RPM as it does at 4000, about 100 hp less than peak and by 8000 RPM it would be making about the same as it does at 2000.  Give it enough cam to breath at those RPMs and you'll lose something off the bottom.

I agree that they could have gotten comparable performance without going to the ultra-high rev'ing FPC motor, though I applaud them for making something unique. 

I'm still scratching my head as to why none of the American automakers have ventured into VVL yet.  Every other major automaker has it and uses it.

The LS7 is an equivalent performing motor to the Voodoo - it's down ~20 hp but it's also smaller, lighter and has a significantly fatter/more usable/tractable power band. My ultimately point is Ford put all that work into coming even with an eleven-year-old motor.