Haterade for everyone!!

[68_427]

Would probably be quicker with the other gearing as well

[FoMoJo]

So how exactly does it "poops out" at the top end, given it makes significantly more power at higher RPM?

EcoBoost 3.5L: 365 hp @ 5,000 rpm
GM 6.2L  420 hp @ 5,600 rpm

Top speed.

[FoMoJo]

Well, first, beware that premise - more weight would slow it down - only validates the superiority of the GM 6.2L. Either way that premise does not exist.

On the 6.2L Silverado, per GM's site, the "Max Trailering Package" and bigger diff are standard equipment. The limitation on towing for the 6.2L Silverado is the rear axle ratio. The Silverado in this test has the 3.23:1 diff and 9,800 lb rating. With the 3.42:1 diff towing capacity increases to 11,800 lbs. Thus, there is zero weight penalty for the higher towing capacity.

So it needs to be geared down to equal the towing capacity of the Ford resulting in even worse mileage and lower top end speed.  May as well get a John Deere.

[hotrodalex]

With an overdrive transmission and over 400 HP you're not gonna see much a MPG penalty for slightly lower rear end gears. And you'll actually get improved city mpg as long as you don't go crazy with the go-pedal.

[68_427]

So it needs to be geared down to equal the towing capacity of the Ford resulting in even worse mileage and lower top end speed.  May as well get a John Deere.

The Ford has a 3.55 rear end... Even higher than the optional one on the Chevy

[SVT666]

Top speed.

Seriously?  In a truck?

[GoCougs]

Top speed.

I see. Well, that's likely not the case either. The Silverado had a notable advantage in 1/4 mile trap speed and that advantage would likely build as speed increased. Given that each truck is governed to ~100 mph the test was incapable of addressing anything faster.

[GoCougs]

So it needs to be geared down to equal the towing capacity of the Ford resulting in even worse mileage and lower top end speed.  May as well get a John Deere.

Yes, the Silverado has lower gearing as I had stated; yet, there it is, getting identical MPG and being as quick or quicker.

[FoMoJo]

The Ford has a 3.55 rear end... Even higher than the optional one on the Chevy

It's got a 6 spd.  Still gets a higher top speed, not that it's important in a pick-up, but it just shows the limitation of a pushrod engine.  Even the VVT acting on all valves simultaneously, only has 80% of the efficiency of a DOHC with VVT acting independently on intake and exhaust.

[MX793]

Top speed.

Both trucks are electronically limited (the Chevy at 99 mph, the Ford at just over 100).

[FoMoJo]

With an overdrive transmission and over 400 HP you're not gonna see much a MPG penalty for slightly lower rear end gears. And you'll actually get improved city mpg as long as you don't go crazy with the go-pedal.

Doubt if it gets much time in the overdrive gears in the city. 

[FoMoJo]

Seriously?  In a truck?

It's about as important as 0-60 times and quarter mile times .

[FoMoJo]

Yes, the Silverado has lower gearing as I had stated; yet, there it is, getting identical MPG and being as quick or quicker.

It would be interesting to see real world mileage/gas consumption over a year or two of working trucks.  As long as the power is needed for hauling or heavy loads, both are gonna burn more gas.  It's the off times when traveling without any load that the TTV6 is going to save...small displacement V6 with minimal boost vs. large displacement V8 slogging dead weight.

[FoMoJo]

Both trucks are electronically limited (the Chevy at 99 mph, the Ford at just over 100).

I wonder why the Chevy is limited so low compared to the other 3?

[MX793]

The Ford has a 3.55 rear end... Even higher than the optional one on the Chevy

Comparing just Rear-end/final drive ratios of vehicles with different transmissions (and transmission ratios) is meaningless.  My V6 Mustang with a 3.31 rear end has shorter overall gearing in certain gears than a Mustang GT with 3.55s.

[hotrodalex]

Doubt if it gets much time in the overdrive gears in the city. 

Overdrive is for the highway mileage. Lower (higher numerical) gearing in the city is better - easier engine loads. Assuming you have enough gears to not be wringing the engine out over 3k rpms all the time, the higher numerical gearing is helpful.

[Soup DeVille]

Trucks have so much horsepower and torque today who cares if they ever see redline or not.

Bingo!

[GoCougs]

It would be interesting to see real world mileage/gas consumption over a year or two of working trucks.  As long as the power is needed for hauling or heavy loads, both are gonna burn more gas.  It's the off times when traveling without any load that the TTV6 is going to save...small displacement V6 with minimal boost vs. large displacement V8 slogging dead weight.

My bet is totally on the N/A engine - not only is the empirical data there when not on boost turbo motors are running at a lower compression ratio then their N/A counterparts, and so goes compression ratio so goes efficiency.

[SVT666]

It's about as important as 0-60 times and quarter mile times .

Not really.  0-60 is far more usable than 1/4 mile, but top speed in a pickup is never usable.

[r0tor]

Well, first, beware that premise - more weight would slow it down - only validates the superiority of the GM 6.2L. Either way that premise does not exist.

On the 6.2L Silverado, per GM's site, the "Max Trailering Package" and bigger diff are standard equipment. The limitation on towing for the 6.2L Silverado is the rear axle ratio. The Silverado in this test has the 3.23:1 diff and 9,800 lb rating. With the 3.42:1 diff towing capacity increases to 11,800 lbs. Thus, there is zero weight penalty for the higher towing capacity.

A). Your first statement makes no sense.  It has an advantage without having a tow package in terms of eight and fuel economy over the ecobewwwwwst

B). Per general mess's website, the tow package is...

The available NHT max trailering package includes a 9.76-inch rear axle, heavy-duty rear springs, revised shock tuning for increased control, enhanced cooling, and an integrated trailer brake controller. Also included is an automatic locking rear differential, trailer hitch, and bumper-mounted 4- and 7-pin connectors.

...or otherwise known as stuff that will add weight and kill fuel economy

[SVT666]

A). Your first statement makes no sense.  It has an advantage without having a tow package in terms of eight and fuel economy over the ecobewwwwwst

B). Per general mess's website, the tow package is...

The available NHT max trailering package includes a 9.76-inch rear axle, heavy-duty rear springs, revised shock tuning for increased control, enhanced cooling, and an integrated trailer brake controller. Also included is an automatic locking rear differential, trailer hitch, and bumper-mounted 4- and 7-pin connectors.

...or otherwise known as stuff that will add weight and kill fuel economy

The larger rear axle is at most 25 lbs, the heavy duty leaf springs is another 25 lbs, revised shock tuning is 0 lbs, enhanced cooling is the addition of a relatively small radiator for another let's say 50 lbs including coolant, integrated brake controller is less than 1 lbs since the truck is pre-wired, the trailer hitch is about 50 lbs, and the wiring harnesses are another 1 lbs since the truck is pre-wired.  That is, at most, 152 lbs.  Not gonna make a lick of difference on a truck.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

 

[hotrodalex]

My bet is totally on the N/A engine - not only is the empirical data there when not on boost turbo motors are running at a lower compression ratio then their N/A counterparts, and so goes compression ratio so goes efficiency.

I'm assuming the 6.2 has cylinder deactivation, right?

[Rupert]

You know what will fix that?

A nice big truck.

Heh.

[Rupert]

The same can be said for the AMG, M, S crowd who don't track their cars (95%) of them.  Or the GT, SS, SRT crowd. 

It's always been about boys and their toys.  Jim Bob needs his 50 thousand dollar truck just as much as Bruce needs his 100 thousand dollar AMG Merc.

Well, tracks aren't required to enjoy a sports car.

But I don't like it any more when people buy any car because they think need to compensate. Truck owners are really just easy pickins.

[GoCougs]

A). Your first statement makes no sense.  It has an advantage without having a tow package in terms of eight and fuel economy over the ecobewwwwwst

B). Per general mess's website, the tow package is...

The available NHT max trailering package includes a 9.76-inch rear axle, heavy-duty rear springs, revised shock tuning for increased control, enhanced cooling, and an integrated trailer brake controller. Also included is an automatic locking rear differential, trailer hitch, and bumper-mounted 4- and 7-pin connectors.

...or otherwise known as stuff that will add weight and kill fuel economy

Yes, my first statement makes sense - you have validated the equivalent/better mpg and performance of the 6.2L by saying the only way it gets worse is by adding this (phantom) weight (by pushing the burden onto the truck itself).

Like I said, any of the 6.2L Silverados have the trailering package as standard - the ONLY option is 3.23 vs. 3.42 gears in the same diff (= no weight difference) for the ~2,000 lb towing difference.

You wracked up so many losses on this one it's (almost) unbelievable. The GM's 6.2L is the better motor - not because "it catches up on horsepower" and not because the truck is lighter (?). It's the better motor because it provides equivalent or better performance and mpg, is much simpler and won't need $3,000+ in turbos in ~150,000 miles.

[hotrodalex]

Chevy configurator won't let me get the 3.42 gears with the 6.2L/8 speed transmission.

Nor does it show any sort of "max trailering package" as an option.

[Soup DeVille]

Lies man, its all a bunch of lies...

[GoCougs]

Chevy configurator won't let me get the 3.42 gears with the 6.2L/8 speed transmission.

Nor does it show any sort of "max trailering package" as an option.

Annotated for clarity.

Trailer package as standard equipment:



6.2L towing capacity based only on rear axle ratio:

[hotrodalex]

LOL

I saw the 3.42 gears on that page but in the build and price section it wouldn't let me choose 6.2L and 3.42 gears for some reason. Might just be a configurator error.