Best do-everything car for <$50k?

[Byteme]

It's not a stupid question at all.  Most people can't or don't want more than one car per driver in the house.

Exactly, picking one car causes the buyer to weigh alternatives and pick the vehicle that best suits their particular needs.  I'd expect a single twenty something to make a different selection than a 35 year old married guy with a couple of rugrats to haul around.  The guy with kids is likely willing to give up some performance and styling in order to gain mileage and room for 4.   The question boils down to which vehicle best fulfills all the functions an individual requires. 

[Raza]

It's not a stupid question at all.  Most people can't or don't want more than one car per driver in the house.

It's not a stupid question in general, I'll agree with that.  For him, it is. 

[12,000 RPM]

It's not a stupid question in general, I'll agree with that.  For him, it is.
[/quote
Who is he, Cougs? Just cause one can afford multiple cars doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I really learned this when I had the Civic, Z and my bike at the same time. To really capitalize on the multi vehicle thing they all have to be so different that they have zero cross over. I don't think sports cars in America are different enough from performance cars or even fun little mainstreamers to really do that. If we were talking shit like the FF 818 or Ariel Atom or w/e then yea I could see that. Or like my wife does a ton of garage saleing, and home ownership in general just warrants having a minivan or something on hand. Then she could get a Volt or something for her commute. Shit like that. But I think the sedan + sports car combo is kind of DOA. Hence the sports car's precipitous decline.

[Byteme]

I really learned this when I had the Civic, Z and my bike at the same time. To really capitalize on the multi vehicle thing they all have to be so different that they have zero cross over.

I think the criteria is much more simple.

1.  Do you want it?

2.  Can you afford it?

You are trying to add rationality to an essentially irrational decision. 

[SVT666]

When a sport sedan can give you 80% of the fun of a GT and the utility you need for a family, then what's the point in having multiple vehicles?  I would love to have a Mustang and my G37, but the Mustang would probably hardly ever get driven because my kids barely fit in the back, and most of the time I'm the one dropping the kids off at school and picking them up because I work from home.  For me, it doesn't make sense at this point in my life.  In four years that could change however, because both of my kids will be walking to the middle and high schools and won't need a ride anymore.

[12,000 RPM]

I am really enjoying the practicality of a sedan. Just not having to crawl over a seat or block my front A/C return makes it worth it. Sports car dynamics are good but a well set up sports sedan comes damn close. It all comes back to how the market has changed. 20-30 years ago mainstream cars sucked, barring a very small selection of exceptions. Now everyday performance cars are damn near their own segment and many plain jane sedans outperform sports cars of the 90s. Unless u REALLY REALLY love the sensation of the wind in your hair, or legit sports car dynamics, it is kind of pointless to have a sports car for a second car. U have to be super serious about it, like do track days and shit.

[Raza]

Until they make a four seat convertible wagon with RWD and AWD, one car just won't cut it (reality of personal situations notwithstanding). 

I mean, the ideal garage (for me) would be a RWD sports car and a wagon or hatchback; AWD preferred, FWD acceptable. 

[Lebowski]

When a sport sedan can give you 80% of the fun of a GT and the utility you need for a family, then what's the point in having multiple vehicles?  I would love to have a Mustang and my G37, but the Mustang would probably hardly ever get driven because my kids barely fit in the back, and most of the time I'm the one dropping the kids off at school and picking them up because I work from home.  For me, it doesn't make sense at this point in my life.  In four years that could change however, because both of my kids will be walking to the middle and high schools and won't need a ride anymore.

I am really enjoying the practicality of a sedan. Just not having to crawl over a seat or block my front A/C return makes it worth it. Sports car dynamics are good but a well set up sports sedan comes damn close. It all comes back to how the market has changed. 20-30 years ago mainstream cars sucked, barring a very small selection of exceptions. Now everyday performance cars are damn near their own segment and many plain jane sedans outperform sports cars of the 90s. Unless u REALLY REALLY love the sensation of the wind in your hair, or legit sports car dynamics, it is kind of pointless to have a sports car for a second car. U have to be super serious about it, like do track days and shit.

As much as I loved the C6, in real world driving the m3 is just as fun and a lot more practical.  The removable roof was nice, but realistically I hardly ever removed it.  I'm not so sure I'll have another 2 seater anytime soon.

[Soup DeVille]

Until they make a four seat convertible wagon with RWD and AWD, one car just won't cut it (reality of personal situations notwithstanding). 

I mean, the ideal garage (for me) would be a RWD sports car and a wagon or hatchback; AWD preferred, FWD acceptable. 

The vehicle i posted fits most of that, and its available as a hardtop, removable hardtop, convertible, as well as LSAT (low signature armored transport) and LVAD (low velocity air drop) versions.

You guys just don't get the "do anything" part of the question very well.

[12,000 RPM]

The vehicle i posted fits most of that, and its available as a hardtop, removable hardtop, convertible, as well as LSAT (low signature armored transport) and LVAD (low velocity air drop) versions.

You guys just don't get the "do anything" part of the question very well.

[MrH]

Who is he, Cougs? Just cause one can afford multiple cars doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I really learned this when I had the Civic, Z and my bike at the same time. To really capitalize on the multi vehicle thing they all have to be so different that they have zero cross over. I don't think sports cars in America are different enough from performance cars or even fun little mainstreamers to really do that. If we were talking shit like the FF 818 or Ariel Atom or w/e then yea I could see that. Or like my wife does a ton of garage saleing, and home ownership in general just warrants having a minivan or something on hand. Then she could get a Volt or something for her commute. Shit like that. But I think the sedan + sports car combo is kind of DOA. Hence the sports car's precipitous decline.

Nailed it. That's exactly my thought. I'd say of all the miles I drive, 95% are commuting to and from work (about 60 miles a day) and weekend road trips where I'm traveling with friends (couple thousand miles a year). The Genesis is just such a better car than the brz for these situations. It's quite a bit faster, tons more luxury features (radar cruise control, heated and cooled seats, great navigation, etc), exponentially quieter, roomier, and the stereo is one of the best ones out there. The only thing the brz does better: handling, steering response, looks, and feeling like a race car. I can't justify those four things for over r$20k + extra operating expenses. If I'm going to do a fun car, it needs to be drastically different than the Genesis. Few things fit the bill. I really wish I could get something like a Morgan three wheeler for < $20k.

The Genesis is great for commuting but I'm just wondering if there's a single car that is as good to commute in but has some sports car thrills too. All I got so far is the STI which I'm going to test drive soon, but I'm guessing it's going to be a major step down from the Genesis. Golf R is too boring. Audi S3 is too small for carrying people and stuff.

I'm leaning towards selling the brz and getting a cheaper toy. Maybe an MR2 spyder? Or a Z3 M roadster? Something like that. S2000s are over priced. A lotus is over budget.

[Rich]

MR2s are ugly as sin... a used caterham would be a little less ugly but more fun.

a used factory 5 roadster? 

[12,000 RPM]

I dont think MR2s are any uglier than Miatas. They are all great looking cars.

F5 roadsters are too old manish. Something like a Ginetta G40, Cateram, X bow, Atom etc would be it. I still find it idiotic that the US is cool with people riding motorcycles without helmets, but adamant about every car passing Fort Knox safety standards. if I want to drive a big go kart on the highway, as long as I'm insured and paying road taxes why shouldn't I be able to? Its my constitutional right

[Raza]

No, MR-2 Spyders are damn ugly cars.  But man, they are fun if you avoid the horrible SMG box.  I mean, the guy is like 27 years old, he's owned a Honda Element and now a Korean Buick.  It's pretty clear that image doesn't matter to him (which is a good thing). 

Only issue with that is if he wants to go for a top down weekend with the lady (the car, not the lady, that's up to him), the MR-2 offers precious little in the way of cargo space, which is one of the reasons the MX-5 dismantled it in sales.  Most of the people buying a sports car as a second car wanted something a little prettier and more practical (NB) and people buying it as an only car couldn't deal with that little space.  They're better cars to drive than MX-5s, but I'd say the MX-5 is a better all-rounder. 

Why not split the difference?  Sell the Genesis, get a Forester 2.5XT 5MT and an E36 M3 convertible?

[Raza]

MR2s are ugly as sin... a used caterham would be a little less ugly but more fun.

a used factory 5 roadster?

Used kit cars are usually super expensive.  People either put a ton of hard work and effort into making them, so they think they're worth a billion dollars, or they spent a lot of money having them put together professionally, so they think they're worth a billion dollars.

Plus, kits are a fucking crap shoot when it comes to build quality. 

[MexicoCityM3]

Nailed it. That's exactly my thought. I'd say of all the miles I drive, 95% are commuting to and from work (about 60 miles a day) and weekend road trips where I'm traveling with friends (couple thousand miles a year). The Genesis is just such a better car than the brz for these situations. It's quite a bit faster, tons more luxury features (radar cruise control, heated and cooled seats, great navigation, etc), exponentially quieter, roomier, and the stereo is one of the best ones out there. The only thing the brz does better: handling, steering response, looks, and feeling like a race car. I can't justify those four things for over r$20k + extra operating expenses. If I'm going to do a fun car, it needs to be drastically different than the Genesis. Few things fit the bill. I really wish I could get something like a Morgan three wheeler for < $20k.

The Genesis is great for commuting but I'm just wondering if there's a single car that is as good to commute in but has some sports car thrills too. All I got so far is the STI which I'm going to test drive soon, but I'm guessing it's going to be a major step down from the Genesis. Golf R is too boring. Audi S3 is too small for carrying people and stuff.

I'm leaning towards selling the brz and getting a cheaper toy. Maybe an MR2 spyder? Or a Z3 M roadster? Something like that. S2000s are over priced. A lotus is over budget.

I don't think you'll find a single car to like enough. An E90 M3 is as close as it gets to a 4 door practical sports car and IIRC you did not like it.

Z3 M is tons of fun.

[MexicoCityM3]

If I went single car I'd go back to an M3. But I'd rather keep more than one car.

[MrH]

Yeah, kit cars are a ton of work and expensive. Exocets are basically the only thing I would go for, but even that is too expensive and too much work.

I could get back into an NC pretty cheap and get Flyin Miatas targa kit. Super charger, exhaust, suspension, clutch. I'd still be a few grand ahead by selling the brz and doing that. 2500 lbs, 250 hp, and cheaper than an S2000.

[12,000 RPM]

Why not split the difference?  Sell the Genesis, get a Forester 2.5XT 5MT and an E36 M3 convertible?

Because for 95% of his driving, the Genesis is a better car than both of those. At least for him. If he can't get out to a track with regularity the Miata will be pointless.

Yeah, kit cars are a ton of work and expensive. Exocets are basically the only thing I would go for, but even that is too expensive and too much work.

I could get back into an NC pretty cheap and get Flyin Miatas targa kit. Super charger, exhaust, suspension, clutch. I'd still be a few grand ahead by selling the brz and doing that. 2500 lbs, 250 hp, and cheaper than an S2000.

More torque too. Good gawd, S2000s are dogs on the little cam (and frankly not that crazy on the big one).

[Cookie Monster]

My ideal garage would have been my Miata, the 4Runner, and a motorcycle. That would have covered most any need I'd have.

Too bad California is so strict about emissions.

[MrH]

Because for 95% of his driving, the Genesis is a better car than both of those. At least for him. If he can't get out to a track with regularity the Miata will be pointless.
More torque too. Good gawd, S2000s are dogs on the little cam (and frankly not that crazy on the big one).

There is a super clean special edition NC Miata up in Cleveland

The exterior color is kind of lame (sky blue) but the brown top and brown leather interior is perfect. Lower it, but fat tires, super charger, and exhaust. That'd be a fun dichotomy of a car: bad ass race car in a girly color

[Cookie Monster]

There is a super clean special edition NC Miata up in Cleveland

The exterior color is kind of lame (sky blue) but the brown top and brown leather interior is perfect. Lower it, but fat tires, super charger, and exhaust. That'd be a fun dichotomy of a car: bad ass race car in a girly color

That's like my car, except mine is not clean and still slow.

[SVT666]

I think the closest thing to a perfect all rounder is the CTS-V wagon.  It's part muscle car, part sports car, part family car, has real utility, and looks totally badass. The only thing it's missing is any kind of towing capability.

[Raza]

Because for 95% of his driving, the Genesis is a better car than both of those. At least for him. If he can't get out to a track with regularity the Miata will be pointless.
More torque too. Good gawd, S2000s are dogs on the little cam (and frankly not that crazy on the big one).

Now you need regular track time to enjoy the most basic of sports cars? What a load. 

[12,000 RPM]

Now you need regular track time to enjoy the most basic of sports cars? What a load. 

Its true.... what can a sports car do on the road that a sports car can't? A same vintage G 6MT sedan with the Z's suspension is 95% its dynamic match while being infinitely more practical. The G 6MT with the stock G sport suspension is prob like 75% its match.

[Soup DeVille]

I think the closest thing to a perfect all rounder is the CTS-V wagon.  It's part muscle car, part sports car, part family car, has real utility, and looks totally badass. The only thing it's missing is any kind of towing capability.

Only on paper. No real reason it can't tow a reasonably sized load.

[Raza]

Its true.... what can a sports car do on the road that a sports car can't? A same vintage G 6MT sedan with the Z's suspension is 95% its dynamic match while being infinitely more practical. The G 6MT with the stock G sport suspension is prob like 75% its match.

Well, you're comparing a GT based on a sedan to the sedan on which it's based.  That's like saying "What can a Civic coupe do that a Civic sedan can't?"  What can a real sports car do on the road that a sedan can't?  So much.  If you have to ask you haven't driven an engaging sports car.

The point of a car like the MX-5 is that you can drive it in an engaging manner without breaking the law too badly.  And now you want to relegate the lowest rung of sports car to track day only?  How miserable is your driving where you live? 

I drive 3 miles a day on city streets and I still get more out of my sports car than I do out of regular cars, even sporty regular car's like my brother's S4. 

I repeat: 

[SVT666]

Only on paper. No real reason it can't tow a reasonably sized load.

It can't tow my boat.

[Cookie Monster]

Its true.... what can a sports car do on the road that a sports car can't? A same vintage G 6MT sedan with the Z's suspension is 95% its dynamic match while being infinitely more practical. The G 6MT with the stock G sport suspension is prob like 75% its match.

I guess motorcycles should only be relegated to the track... Might as well stick to a bicycle for real world duty.

[Soup DeVille]

It can't tow my boat.

Well, then you as well have no choice but to agree with the truck i suggested.