Audi A4

[SVT666]

What is that virtual dash gonna look like in 3, 5 or 7 years, even given the off chance it's not buggy? I can't imagine it looking nothing other than even more awful.

As to the exterior, esp. the avant, the roof line doesn't slope like it used to so the car doesn't give the appearance of sitting back on its haunches, which Audi pulled off masterfully with the B8.

I'm bummed. The B9 S4 was a contender but not looking like this (there's also a rumor Audi will be using a TTV6 with an electric supercharger to mitigate/eliminate boost  ).

An electric supercharger?  It's going to require at least 50 hp electric motor to turn that thing.

[12,000 RPM]

What is that virtual dash gonna look like in 3, 5 or 7 years, even given the off chance it's not buggy? I can't imagine it looking nothing other than even more awful.

Probably the same as any other 10 year old LCD screen... that is not new technology

[12,000 RPM]

Based on what everyone says around here, it's the case that no one is satisfied by the hideous new cars or the good looking ones. If anything, people seem to prefer the grotesque slightly.

And it doesn't look old at all. Evolutionary designs last longer; it's the jarring changes that end up looking dated. Fact is the the current A4 and the last gen too are both head and shoulders better looking than anything in the market then or now, and this looks better than everything else.

Lol, fact is you are confusing your opinion as fact. Fact is, this all new A4 looks like a light refresh of the nearly 10 yr old B8. Fact is, consensus in the automotive world is that the B8 wasnt an ugly car, but hardly some kind of beautiful classic worth preserving for 2 decades. And since when do we agree here on anything? Can u name a car released in the last 12 months we have all reached some kind of consensus on?

Audi is either paralyzed with fear or haughty with misplaced pride. This new paper airplane fold hyperconservative shape language they have adopted is, IMO, a failure. They managed to ruin the R8 for fuck's sake. Like I've been saying people shopping in these segments want style as they see it. Its not the 70s or 80s where u could sell a plain jane German car for tons of money. VW and Audi's design languages are awful at the moment. BMW is not far behind. MB is not for everybody but at least they have some semblance of character. Etc. Thats what people want and what makes sense to do.

[2o6]

How you guys can beat off to that Alfa and some lame Skodas, but hate on this, I'll never understand.

I don't hate it, it just looks like the old car.


It wouldn't earn any of my $$$.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't hate it, it just looks like the old car.


It wouldn't earn any of my $$$.

Rite. What is the rationale for buying a new B9 over a used B8? You can make a pretty strong case for most cars in the segment.

[ifcar]

Rite. What is the rationale for buying a new B9 over a used B8? You can make a pretty strong case for most cars in the segment.

There's a lot more upgraded than looks, I'm sure. Besides, many people would buy new over used anyway even without a redesign.

[Raza]

Lol, fact is you are confusing your opinion as fact. Fact is, this all new A4 looks like a light refresh of the nearly 10 yr old B8. Fact is, consensus in the automotive world is that the B8 wasnt an ugly car, but hardly some kind of beautiful classic worth preserving for 2 decades. And since when do we agree here on anything? Can u name a car released in the last 12 months we have all reached some kind of consensus on?

Audi is either paralyzed with fear or haughty with misplaced pride. This new paper airplane fold hyperconservative shape language they have adopted is, IMO, a failure. They managed to ruin the R8 for fuck's sake. Like I've been saying people shopping in these segments want style as they see it. Its not the 70s or 80s where u could sell a plain jane German car for tons of money. VW and Audi's design languages are awful at the moment. BMW is not far behind. MB is not for everybody but at least they have some semblance of character. Etc. Thats what people want and what makes sense to do.

You claim I'm confusing opinion as fact, and then the rest of your post is opinion paraded as fact. Come on, dude.

[Raza]

I don't hate it, it just looks like the old car.


It wouldn't earn any of my $$$.

Yeah, good looking is so early 2000s. Let's make more bulbous and hideous cars that look like Chinese ripoffs of themselves!

[SVT666]

Yeah, good looking is so early 2000s. Let's make more bulbous and hideous cars that look like Chinese ripoffs of themselves!

Audi's newest cars are all less attractive than the previous generation.  Audi's newest styling is definitely a big step backwards. The new R8 is actually hideous, and the old R8 was at the top of my list of dream cars.

[ifcar]

I like the current Audis more than their predecessors, except the new R8 and TT. A mix of angular styling cues and a reluctance to change the cars' overall shape just results in a wretched mishmash in those cases.

[12,000 RPM]

You claim I'm confusing opinion as fact, and then the rest of your post is opinion paraded as fact. Come on, dude.

B9 design sucks dude. That's a fact

[GoCougs]

An electric supercharger?  It's going to require at least 50 hp electric motor to turn that thing.

In short it would keep the intake tract pressurized before the turbos come on boost and once they do it would then disengage (so relatively small power draw).

[2o6]

Yeah, good looking is so early 2000s. Let's make more bulbous and hideous cars that look like Chinese ripoffs of themselves!

It's lazy, don't present a false dichotomy that everything new needs to be bad.



This looks the same as the car introduced in 2008.

[MX793]

An electric supercharger?  It's going to require at least 50 hp electric motor to turn that thing.

Not really.  It would just be there to supplement the turbos and eliminate lag at lower RPMs (and then shut off once the turbos are spooled up).

[SVT666]

Not really.  It would just be there to supplement the turbos and eliminate lag at lower RPMs (and then shut off once the turbos are spooled up).

Seems like an awful lot of complexity.

[giant_mtb]

I think it looks great.  Is it new and exciting and totally different?  No, but it still remains a great looking vehicle in my book.

[GoCougs]

Cars are ultimately marching down the same "integrated technology" path as other retail devices. Used to be that phones, stereos, TVs, PCs, etc., were designed to be repaired/upgraded to serve relatively long lives, which was enabled by relatively simple technology and manufacturing. Now stuff is advanced - an iPhone can't be designed to be materially repairable or upgradeable and maintain its current form, function and price level.

[MX793]

Seems like an awful lot of complexity.

Engines have used combined superchargers and turbochargers to offset turbo lag in the past.  VW had their "Twin Charged" motors in the early 2000s.  It was used on diesel engines decades ago.  Making it electric eliminates the parasitic losses when the engine is running at higher RPMs and the SC isn't needed (like electro-hydraulic power steering), though does add a certain degree of complexity what with a motor and controller.

[Payman]

It's okay, and I like the interior. Not a car I'd aspire to own though.

[SJ_GTI]

I like the current Audis more than their predecessors, except the new R8 and TT. A mix of angular styling cues and a reluctance to change the cars' overall shape just results in a wretched mishmash in those cases.

Audi's newest cars are all less attractive than the previous generation.  Audi's newest styling is definitely a big step backwards. The new R8 is actually hideous, and the old R8 was at the top of my list of dream cars.

Obviously I am somewhat biased, but the B8 was a strong step forward in design for Audi. While the surface details didn't change THAT much from the B7, what they did do was push the front axle forward, thereby reducing the front overhang significantly AND improving front/back weight distribution. Still not as good as BMW mind you, but it was still a significant improvement.

With the B9 it looks like they incrementally improved some surface details but the overhangs are getting longer which, IMHO, is a step backwards.

[Raza]

Obviously I am somewhat biased, but the B8 was a strong step forward in design for Audi. While the surface details didn't change THAT much from the B7, what they did do was push the front axle forward, thereby reducing the front overhang significantly AND improving front/back weight distribution. Still not as good as BMW mind you, but it was still a significant improvement.

With the B9 it looks like they incrementally improved some surface details but the overhangs are getting longer which, IMHO, is a step backwards.

The B8 is one of the best looking cars in the history of the class.  It was always going to be difficult to follow up. 

[TBR]

It obviously is very evolutionary but I like it. And especially like the power bump. Also, note that Lexus is upgrading the base engine in the IS...to the turbocharged unit in the NX200t. I think the talk of the segment being less interesting or whatever is fairly ridiculous. The cars are better than ever. Yes, they are getting bigger...which is exactly why BMW, Audi, and Mercedes have all launched smaller models recently. I hope the ATS gets upgraded power (and CUE) soon. Then it becomes a very interesting choice for me, between the C, the A4, and the ATS.

Especially the interior. I never liked the design language seen in the current model.

[12,000 RPM]

The cars are objectively better, but somehow they just don't capture the imagination.

I think a big part of that is the lack of upgrades on the top of the line engines. 335i has basically just lost a turbo over the last 9 yrs. IS350's engine is over 10 yrs old. Pretty sure the ATS 3.6 is over 10 yrs old. Q50's engine is technically 21 yrs old this year. S4 engine is 8 yrs old. Etc etc. Yea the base engines are great. But Ill be damned if I buy a 50K car to get a damn 4 banger. And it's tough to justify the 6 when I can get the same exact engine in a RWD car half, 1/4, 1/5 the price, that will not be much less reliable if at all over the length of what would be a lease.

Then on the other side you get into the issues of where to even deploy that performance on the road. The segment is in a weird place where it doesnt make much sense to go further. And the used market has such awesome deals. Its not like 10 yrs ago, where if you wanted 335i performance, you had to buy a 335i... there were no used equivalents. Now its like, what does a new 3/I/Q/A4 etc get me that an old one doesn't?

[68_427]

Audi sucks

[GoCougs]

I've said it many times for a while and looks like I will be saying it for quite a while longer - this "entry lux" poser class I think is absolutely awful. There was a revolution ~8-10 years ago - IS350, G37, TL-SH AWD, 335i - but little has advanced since. Sure, the cars are "better" but they don't perform any better (particularly, the same engines mostly), are less exciting, and have lost manual transmissions (TL(X), Q50).

[SVT666]

Yup. Entry lux peaked 8 years ago. The cars are less exciting and not as engaging despite being better cars.

[Payman]

In this class/price range, I'd have the BMW 228i with 6 speed manual. If I could afford a little more, the M235i.

[MexicoCityM3]

I've said it many times for a while and looks like I will be saying it for quite a while longer - this "entry lux" poser class I think is absolutely awful. There was a revolution ~8-10 years ago - IS350, G37, TL-SH AWD, 335i - but little has advanced since. Sure, the cars are "better" but they don't perform any better (particularly, the same engines mostly), are less exciting, and have lost manual transmissions (TL(X), Q50).

I think the Jag XE and the Giulia may bring some fresh air into the segment.

At this point, the base cars in most "entry lux" lineup are the better buys. 328i > 335i for example (even 320i). Soon to be true with the Lexus turbo too IMO. Also, an A4 2.0T Quattro is probably nimbler than an S4 and more than fast enough.

Only the top end M, RS, V, etc *may* be worth it.

[Cookie Monster]

I think the Jag XE and the Giulia may bring some fresh air into the segment.

At this point, the base cars in most "entry lux" lineup are the better buys. 328i > 335i for example (even 320i). Soon to be true with the Lexus turbo too IMO. Also, an A4 2.0T Quattro is probably nimbler than an S4 and more than fast enough.

Only the top end M, RS, V, etc *may* be worth it.

As nice as the Guilia is, I get the feeling it won't be a true top dog competitor. I think it'll probably be priced out of most of the segment and it doesn't carry the same name recognition that BMW and Mercedes does to the average person.

I've said it many times for a while and looks like I will be saying it for quite a while longer - this "entry lux" poser class I think is absolutely awful. There was a revolution ~8-10 years ago - IS350, G37, TL-SH AWD, 335i - but little has advanced since. Sure, the cars are "better" but they don't perform any better (particularly, the same engines mostly), are less exciting, and have lost manual transmissions (TL(X), Q50).

Yep, I agree. I think maybe the C-Class is the only one that stands out in the bunch, because it is the most polarizing design out there (at least till the Guilia gets here).

[12,000 RPM]

What do you guys think it would take to generate excitement among enthusiasts for cars in this segment again?