Audi A4

[Rich]

Enthusiasts?  3,200lbs, 300hp, a 6MT, R/AWD, and an engine note with verve.


I doubt the ensuing car would sell well, though.  For the masses, I see luxury cars going the way of autonomy.  I see having to drive your car as being the way of the bourgeois.

[12,000 RPM]

Autonomous cars are decades away. Most we will see soon is autopilot cruise control.

[Madman]

Buyers of premium brand cars tend to be older and therefore more conservative in their tastes.  And, in this hyper-competitive segment, the last thing a manufacturer wants to do is alienate their existing customers.  At the same time, you want to change the car just enough so those same customers can justify the cost of upgrading to the new model.  It's a tough balancing act.

That said, BMW called and they want their dashboard back.  And it looks like the photographer left his i-Pad on top of the dash.  Audi must use the same photographer as Mercedes because he left his i-Pad on the dash when he took the pictures of the new C Class, too.  I'm surprised nobody has said anything to him about it.  He needs to stop being so careless.

[Raza]

What do you guys think it would take to generate excitement among enthusiasts for cars in this segment again?

For me....less weight, fewer gadgets, smaller exterior size, better looks.

[Payman]

What do you guys think it would take to generate excitement among enthusiasts for cars in this segment again?

[SVT666]

For me....less weight, fewer gadgets, smaller exterior size, better looks.

I agree. Give me the option of big power engines, manual, and no infotainment and I would be happy.

[SJ_GTI]

Well again I am obviously biased, but my car is about as close to perfect for me as I have seen. There are a few changes I would want to see:

Smaller: Even just an inch or two would make a difference IMHO.
Less front overhang: Again, even an inch or two would be nice.
Less Weight: My car is very heavy unfortunately. Carries the weight well, but still noticeable especially after I drive smaller cars.

The new A4 got the third item, but went in the wrong direction on the first two.

The new AR Giulia looks promising, but still have to wait and see. While I am impressed with the power numbers these new cars make, I think I would be perfectly happy with ~300 HP. If the Giulia misses on a few points, the BMW 2-series seems like the best bet in this class of car.

[12,000 RPM]

Well again I am obviously biased, but my car is about as close to perfect for me as I have seen. There are a few changes I would want to see:

Smaller: Even just an inch or two would make a difference IMHO.
Less front overhang: Again, even an inch or two would be nice.
Less Weight: My car is very heavy unfortunately. Carries the weight well, but still noticeable especially after I drive smaller cars.

The new A4 got the third item, but went in the wrong direction on the first two.

Sounds like u should have bought a BMW 335Xi

[SJ_GTI]

Sounds like u should have bought a BMW 335Xi

At the time of purchase the S4 was more powerful, better AWD system (note was living in Canada at the time, so definitely wanted AWD), better looks, and cheaper price. Didn't see any benefit to the 335xi.  Even today I cannot imagine any circumstance in which I would buy a 335xi. I would go with a 335i if I wanted that motor, but more likely would just step up to an M3 (not likely either) or down to a 235i (mostly likely scenario).

[Raza]

I can't see myself in an AWD BMW unless I get one of their SUVs.

[GoCougs]

I've said it many times for a while and looks like I will be saying it for quite a while longer - this "entry lux" poser class I think is absolutely awful. There was a revolution ~8-10 years ago - IS350, G37, TL-SH AWD, 335i - but little has advanced since. Sure, the cars are "better" but they don't perform any better (particularly, the same engines mostly), are less exciting, and have lost manual transmissions (TL(X), Q50).

I guess I forgot Jag and Alfa joining the mix. It's nice to see the shake up but I'm still seeing boosted engines and ATs, and they're bound to be absolutely awful in reliability.

[12,000 RPM]

At the time of purchase the S4 was more powerful, better AWD system (note was living in Canada at the time, so definitely wanted AWD), better looks, and cheaper price. Didn't see any benefit to the 335xi.  Even today I cannot imagine any circumstance in which I would buy a 335xi. I would go with a 335i if I wanted that motor, but more likely would just step up to an M3 (not likely either) or down to a 235i (mostly likely scenario).

Only.... "diff" ... between the xDrive in a 335i and your S4's quattro is xDrive has an electronic multi-plate locking center diff and quattro has a Torsen center diff, and the available vectoring rear diff. Other than that both have open back and front diffs otherwise, with "electronic locking diffs through braking". 335xi does weigh about the same as an S4, but it's much better balanced. But if u wanted the S4 u wanted the S4.

M235i would be my pick too if I can learn to live with a coupe.

[GoCougs]

Whoa - more differences than that when it comes to AWD systems - torque split range, torque split response, integration into traction/stability control.

[SJ_GTI]

Only.... "diff" ... between the xDrive in a 335i and your S4's quattro is xDrive has an electronic multi-plate locking center diff and quattro has a Torsen center diff, and the available vectoring rear diff. Other than that both have open back and front diffs otherwise, with "electronic locking diffs through braking". 335xi does weigh about the same as an S4, but it's much better balanced. But if u wanted the S4 u wanted the S4.

M235i would be my pick too if I can learn to live with a coupe.

Um, ok. 

[SJ_GTI]

I can't see myself in an AWD BMW unless I get one of their SUVs.

+1

I lkike BMW's, but getting and "X-Drive" version just seems silly. They are not meant to be AWD.

[Payman]

+1

I lkike BMW's, but getting and "X-Drive" version just seems silly. They are not meant to be AWD.

They make perfect sense to snow belt people.

[Madman]

They make perfect sense to snow belt people.

I was born and raised in the snow belt (Chicago) and nobody had 4WD/AWD in the old days.  And yet, somehow, we did just fine.  When did everyone become such a bunch of candy-assed pussies that they need to have AWD to get anywhere in winter?

[SJ_GTI]

They make perfect sense to snow belt people.

One of the reasons I bought my car was because I was living in Canada, so definitely wanted AWD. I do recall giving the 335xi a cursory examination, but at the time you couldn't even get the sport suspension with the xi version (the "sport package" was really just different seats and different wheels) and, with the options I wanted (essentially fully loaded), it was more expensive than an S4.

That being said, I knew plenty of people that drove RWD BMW's and MB's in both Montreal and Toronto (not to mention mustangs and such).

[SJ_GTI]

I was born and raised in the snow belt (Chicago) and nobody had 4WD/AWD in the old days.  And yet, somehow, we did just fine.  When did everyone become such a bunch of candy-assed pussies that they need to have AWD to get anywhere in winter?

You don't need it, but it is a nice convenience feature to have.

[12,000 RPM]

I was born and raised in the snow belt (Chicago) and nobody had 4WD/AWD in the old days.  And yet, somehow, we did just fine.  When did everyone become such a bunch of candy-assed pussies that they need to have AWD to get anywhere in winter?

Nobody said anything about needing AWD, SJ said he WANTED the best AWD system available. U mean to tell me u have never bought anything above the bare minimum that u NEEDED to get around?

[ifcar]

I was born and raised in the snow belt (Chicago) and nobody had 4WD/AWD in the old days.  And yet, somehow, we did just fine.  When did everyone become such a bunch of candy-assed pussies that they need to have AWD to get anywhere in winter?

They also had no airbags and everyone did just fine without them too, except the ones who died. Ah, the good old days.

[GoCougs]

There is no argument against AWD providing a huge safety and performance benefit in low traction situations. There's plenty of regular stuff I do in the G that either would be very dicey or I couldn't do if it weren't AWD (mountain passes in the winter, hard acceleration in the wet, steep gravel roads).

[SJ_GTI]

There is no argument against AWD providing a huge safety and performance benefit in low traction situations. There's plenty of regular stuff I do in the G that either would be very dicey or I couldn't do if it weren't AWD (mountain passes in the winter, hard acceleration in the wet, steep gravel roads).

You know it is often overlooked, but this is probably my favorite part about AWD, and one of the reasons I would have a very tough time going back to FWD.

[GoCougs]

It's huge for me, esp. since here the roads are wet ~6 months out of the year. The Accord had moderate acceleration issues in the wet and it was but 240 hp. My car friends are always impressed when we take my G37X - I have near full acceleration capability in the wet, such as a free right at red light or taking a long left across a two lane road; doubly important when it's wet.

[Raza]

They make perfect sense to snow belt people.

Yeah, but if I want AWD, I'm going to get an Audi or a Subaru, if possible. Given comparable prices, I'd go with the guys who have been excelling at AWD for longer and have a reputation for it.

[Raza]

I was born and raised in the snow belt (Chicago) and nobody had 4WD/AWD in the old days.  And yet, somehow, we did just fine.  When did everyone become such a bunch of candy-assed pussies that they need to have AWD to get anywhere in winter?

And we all used to wash clothes in a bucket and churn our own butter. It's a bad argument.

[Raza]

You know it is often overlooked, but this is probably my favorite part about AWD, and one of the reasons I would have a very tough time going back to FWD.

I always discounted the advantage of AWD, since I could get through snow just fine in my E320, Passat, and Jetta. Then one day I drove my brother's S4 in a snowstorm.

I'm a believer. It was like it wasn't even snowing. I was watching all these cars spinning their wheels (literally) and dealing with the issues, and I just drove past like nothing was going on.

[12,000 RPM]

Man u guys are drinking the quattro Kool Aid something serious. Audi's AWD system is no better than that of its competitors. Subaru's is marginally better, but not by much. Of all these brands, only the WRX STI doesn't have a mechanical open front diff.

[Raza]

Man u guys are drinking the quattro Kool Aid something serious. Audi's AWD system is no better than that of its competitors. Subaru's is marginally better, but not by much. Of all these brands, only the WRX STI doesn't have a mechanical open front diff.

What's wrong with an open diff? Power gets shifted to the wheel with traction and away from the one without.

[GoCougs]

What's wrong with an open diff? Power gets shifted to the wheel with traction and away from the one without.

Open diff is the other way around - the wheel with least traction gets the power.