Parking ticket

[Rupert]

So I got a parking ticket the other day, for $20. Normally, I'd just roll my eyes, pay, and move on. Problem is, at this moment, $20 is a lot of money.

So here's the story: I parked illegally in a lot that is right next to a free lot. There's even a space through the separating curb to drive through. I guessed it was a pay lot, because the free lot was full and this other lot was nearly empty. However, it was dark, and I didn't notice any signs stating specifically that the lot I was not free. (I really just didn't feel like driving around any more looking for a space). The ticket is from some private company (Diamond Parking, I believe). This is all in a city that I don't actually live in, but visit for longish stretches of time pretty frequently.

My plan is to get out of this ticket, since I can't exactly afford it. I need to drive by the lot once more to make sure there were no obvious signs. I'm thinking if I talk to these people, and tell them I really don't have much money, and maybe point out to them that it's not very clear that their lot is not free, they'll have some pity (so to speak) and let me off. If it turns out that there is no sign at all, I suppose I could threaten legal action or something silly like that...

Oh, and the ticket basically says to pay within 15 days or there's a late fee ($20 extra), and that they can refer it to a collection agency. It has the info from my truck, the specific space I was in, the number of the person who wrote it, date and time, and a phone number and email. No mention of real legal action.

Any suggestions?

[Catman]

Did the police give you the ticket or the parking lot?  Sounds a little shady to me how the lots are connected.

[TBR]

Did the police give you the ticket or the parking lot?  Sounds a little shady to me how the lots are connected.

"The ticket is from some private company (Diamond Parking, I believe)."

[Catman]

How do they have power to fine?  That's bullshit.

[Raza]

Hmm...that's odd.  But, campuses can fine you.  

In England, they have privatized parking enforcement.

[Rupert]

See, that's what I think. Apparently, around here, they do. Wanna see more bullshit? Keep scrolling.

In this picture, I'm standing in the free lot, looking into the pay lot. Where the blue Civic is parked is where I drove through. Notice, there are no signs except the one in the below picture to indicate that that lot is a pay lot.


This is what is says in front of the Civic. Notice how faded that is. Remember, it was dark.


This is looking into the pat lot. I was parked about where that Range Rover is now. Notice the lack of a real divider between the two lots and location of the pay to park sign. Remember, it was dark.


Close up of the pay to park sign, the one that is on the opposite side of the lot.


Looking back into the free parking lot. Notice Moby, and that faded Pay To Park painted sign on the ground.


This is the free parking sign, located right next to the red SUV on the far right of the above picture. Notice how it does not specify which lot is free (although it's obviously indicating the lot it's in), and notice how this lot is monitored by the same Diamond Parking people.


I'm now thinking I should send these people those pics with those explanations in an email and see what happens. I suppose I could call the city to complain as well.

[Rupert]

Here's a copy of the email I will probably send to the parking people. Any suggestions?

Hello,
I recieved a ticket on Tuesday the 13th of December that I do not believe to be fair. I am a college student, and as such, cannot afford this ticket for $20. I parked in your E736 East Annex Lot, which I now see is a pay lot. I parked there between 5:30 amd 6 pm and the ticket was given at 6:12 pm. At the time I parked, it was dark. I entered the pay lot from the neighboring free lot, and I did not see any sign stating that the lot I was entering was a pay lot. The two lots are connected by an alleyway. There is what looks to be an entrance to the pay lot from the free lot, and this is how I went from one lot to the other. I did not re-enter the road, assuming that the two lots were one free lot. In the dark I did not see the faded lettering on the ground at the entrance I used to the pay lot that spells "Pay To Park". I do not believe this is a sufficient sign, because, in the dark, even with my headlights on, I could not see it. I went back two days later to take photos and try to find a sign that I could have missed, and this is how I know of this sign on the ground. I also saw a sign during the day when I went back, at the other end of the lot on the Pearl Street entrance, that states that it is a pay lot. It is oriented so that people on the street can read it, but from where I entered to where I parked, I could not read it. There is one more sign that I saw when I went back on the 6th Ave. side entrance that is equally impossible to read. Neither of those signs are obvious, and neither of them are visible from where I parked when it is dark out. I do not believe that any of the three signs are sufficient, and therefore, I do not believe the ticket I recieved is fair. I have photos of both lots and all three signs. The information on my ticket follows:

Info from ticket...

[dazzleman]

One question -- is it legal to enter the lot through the alley you drove through?  If not, they could just claim you have no case because had you entered the lot legally, you would have seen the signs telling you that you have to pay.

I'd leave out the part about not being able to afford the ticket.  They truly don't give a s&$t, and from what I've observed in court, there is an inverse relationship between apparent wealth and the amount you're fined.  Like most things, the law favors those with money, and advertising that you don't have it won't help you a bit.

Having said that, I don't see what enforcement mechanism they have against you.  You could probably wipe your a%# with the ticket, never pay it, and suffer no consequences.  As I understand it, on private property the recourse is to tow an illegally parked car at the owner's expense.  Since they didn't do that, I don't see what recourse they have.  They probably put out those notices knowing that a certain percentage of people will just pay, and they hope you're one of them.

In any case, I think it's unusual even for a municipality to be able to really come you for only one parking ticket.  A while back, I got 2 tickets that just weren't right -- one at a meter that malfunctioned and ran out too soon even though I had put enough money in, and another written by an officer outside his municipality.  I'm not a guy who tries to duck out of paying tickets I deserve, but it does piss me off to get an undeserved ticket, especially one like parking which, unlike speeding, brings no pleasure or enjoyment.

I eighty-sixed both tickets because I didn't feel like taking the time to go to court, and while the town sent me some letters for a while, they never followed up further because they couldn't.  The law in that state only allowed suspension of a registration if the car had 3 or more tickets within 18 months, and I had two.  Tough luck.  :D

Good luck with it, but I'd say just wipe your a%# with the damn thing, and do the same with any notices they send you.

[Tom]

If that doesn't work you could offer to do some landscaping or other such work to pay it off.

[dazzleman]

If that doesn't work you could offer to do some landscaping or other such work to pay it off.

Last time I went to court for a speeder, there was a pretty funny scene with a young girl who was there with an angry looking man, apparently her dad, and the state's attorney was telling her that she could do community service since she didn't have enough money to pay her ticket.  Apparently her dad refused to pay it.  More fathers ought to do that.

[Rupert]

I believe it is legal, since there is a very faded sign on the ground, and no sign saying it isn't legal. I think you're right about the not having money bit. I'm gonna take that out and send the thing soon.

All they can do is have a collections agency call me a bunch, and maybe come to find me. But, really, what's one parking ticket? I figure I make an effort to get outa it, call the city to complain anonymously, then blow it off. I'm not actually sure it's private property. I think it might be a city lot managed by this Diamond Parking company. Do you think sending this to them will bring up the fact that I haven't paid on their radar screen, thereby getting myself in more "trouble" (ie, getting calls and visits from their collection agency)?

[dazzleman]

I believe it is legal, since there is a very faded sign on the ground, and no sign saying it isn't legal. I think you're right about the not having money bit. I'm gonna take that out and send the thing soon.

All they can do is have a collections agency call me a bunch, and maybe come to find me. But, really, what's one parking ticket? I figure I make an effort to get outa it, call the city to complain anonymously, then blow it off. I'm not actually sure it's private property. I think it might be a city lot managed by this Diamond Parking company. Do you think sending this to them will bring up the fact that I haven't paid on their radar screen, thereby getting myself in more "trouble" (ie, getting calls and visits from their collection agency)?

If you don't intend to pay the ticket, I think it's best to just ignore it completely.  Then you can claim you didn't even know you received it, if it comes down to that.

If the lot were public property, the ticket would have been issued by a public law enforcement agency.  If it wasn't, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

When I was in college, the campus security used to give out both parking tickets and moving violations.  The only way the school could enforce collection of those tickets was to deny registration, graduation, transcripts, etc. to those who recieved them and did not pay.  When I was in high school, parking or driving violations resulted in detention.

The point I'm trying to make it that unless they have something to hold over you, a ticket from them is a meaningless piece of paper.  I'd treat it accordingly.

[TBR]

They aren't going to send a collection agency after $20.  

[dazzleman]

They aren't going to send a collection agency after $20.

I agree.  They just send those letters out hoping you've got no balls, crap in your pants, and pay them.  If you don't pay them, they'll probably just forget about it, because it's not worth it to go after somebody for $20.

The only time there'd be an issue is if a person accumulated a lot of charges from them-- then they might take legal action or go to a collection agency.  But for $20, they'll just think 'nice try' and write it off.

[Rupert]

Oh, but I did want to tell them off...

Once again, yer right.

[Catman]

I think you need to call Chuck Norris in on this.

[dazzleman]

Oh, but I did want to tell them off...

Once again, yer right.

Hah, I hate parking tickets too.  They get me more pissed off than speeding tickets, even though the consequences are less.  

With a speeding ticket, at least I know I enjoyed doing what earned me the ticket.  I'm paying a price, but at least I got something in return.  And I long ago abandoned the practice at getting angry when I get nailed for doing something that I knew was illegal when I did it.  I adopted the old "don't do the crime if you can't do the time (or in this case...pay the fine)" attitude, and it really helps.  So I generally take speeding tickets with good grace and humor.  

But parking tickets burn me up, because it's just pissing away money, with no positive side.  It's like having someone just reach in your pocket and grab money.

[Rupert]

Indeed. They (parking tickets) make sense when you're parked in a really dumb spot, if you're double-parked, in a handicap spot and you aren't handicapped, or even parked illegally in a really full pay lot. But not so much when no one is being inconvenienced.

[dazzleman]

Indeed. They (parking tickets) make sense when you're parked in a really dumb spot, if you're double-parked, in a handicap spot and you aren't handicapped, or even parked illegally in a really full pay lot. But not so much when no one is being inconvenienced.

I'm careful about where I park for reasons of self-interest -- I don't want my car to get hit.  If I park it stupidly somewhere, sticking out and blocking traffic, the odds are much higher that someone will hit it.  That's a much bigger deterrent than a ticket.