2017 Fiat 124 Spider

[Payman]

Fantastico! Front o/h looks a little long, but I'll reserve judgement with better pics. So far, me gusta enough to start a savings fund. 

http://jalopnik.com/2017-fiat-124-spider-this-is-it-1733363750

"More important is what's under the hood. We're anticipating Fiat's 1.4-liter turbo four with around 180 horsepower for the base engine, and the 1.7-liter turbo four from the Alfa Romeo 4C with 240 HP on the upmodel, probably Abarth-badged version." 

[Payman]

This is an early Abarth render, but looks like they got the tail lights right...

[2o6]

There's too much Mazda in this design, especially the interior.



With this much parts sharing on the outside, I can only anticipate the same 1.5 and 2.0 from Mazda. I don't think Fiat has a small RWD transmission, nor do I think the 1.4T will mate up to it.

[MX793]

It's not that hard to mate a gearbox to a motor.  Will probably use the same transmission as the Mazda but with a different bell housing to mate with the Fiat motor.

[12,000 RPM]

They can slap a Fiat motor onto the existing transmission.

Def looks too Mazda ish for me. Was hoping for something like the Alfa Spider

[Cookie Monster]

Looks like shit. They somehow managed to make the ND more ugly.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The hardest sell for any mazda buyer will be the absolutely scant aftermarket that either of these italians will have.

That really is(to me) the biggest draw to the miata. It has a HUGE aftermarket and knowledgebase.

I can't imagine they will get a lot of miata buyers to jump to these, most like they will get premium buyers to move down to these.

[Payman]

Looks like shit. They somehow managed to make the ND more ugly.

It's really hard to tell with a black car. Give it a chance.

[Payman]

There's too much Mazda in this design, especially the interior.



With this much parts sharing on the outside, I can only anticipate the same 1.5 and 2.0 from Mazda. I don't think Fiat has a small RWD transmission, nor do I think the 1.4T will mate up to it.

They said no body panels are shared between the two... again, hard to tell with grainy pics of a black car. As for the powerplants, they said from the git-go they'll have Fiat/Alfa engines, and at least the 1.4T MultiAir has been confirmed as the base engine, using the Mazda transmissions.

[12,000 RPM]

The hardest sell for any mazda buyer will be the absolutely scant aftermarket that either of these italians will have.

That really is(to me) the biggest draw to the miata. It has a HUGE aftermarket and knowledgebase.

I can't imagine they will get a lot of miata buyers to jump to these, most like they will get premium buyers to move down to these.

Chassis and I'm imagining drivetrain from the tranny back will be shared

And the 1.4T actually has a decent aftermarket following, as well as good OEM support through its various states of tune.

I would still prefer the Miata, simply because road tests indicate it's plenty quick enough and it will be more reliable with better dealer support. I'm not sure I see many people stepping down to this, unless FCA loads it up with sound deadening and luxury features, which will be problematic and silly.

Other biggie is pricing. This thing will probably be in the no-man's land of the Z. Miata is already a bit much to swallow price wise, but doable for the right person. Will def be watching this one real close

[Payman]

I'm guessing the 1.4T in various trims will be priced on par with the Miata... $25~$32K.

The Abarth, I'd say $35~40K, which puts it roughly even with the S2000, adjusted for inflation.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I really don't see how(or why) anyone would assume that a more powerful lower production version being offered form a european brand would be the same cost as the miata.

I'm guessing base fiat's will be 34-35K, and any hotter or abarth model will be at or right above 40K. Even that estimate may be generous depending on equipment packages. I certainly wouldn't be shocked to see the abarth touching 45-46K.

[Payman]

I really don't see how(or why) anyone would assume that a more powerful lower production version being offered form a european brand would be the same cost as the miata.

I'm guessing base fiat's will be 34-35K, and any hotter or abarth model will be at or right above 40K. Even that estimate may be generous depending on equipment packages. I certainly wouldn't be shocked to see the abarth touching 45-46K.

Because it will be built on the same line as the Miata in Japan, that's why.

[12,000 RPM]

Because it will be built on the same line as the Miata in Japan, that's why.

With more power and go fast bits. It will have to cost more

[Cookie Monster]

Plus, they can get away charging more for an "Italian" sports car aimed at old dudes wanting to relive their 124 fantasies, whereas the Miata already has a long history and following and can't just get away with hiking the price by 50-100%.

[2o6]

Fiats have basic interiors, and in most markets, Fiat and Mazda are on the same plane.


I think maybe a 10-15% price difference.




Also, I hope that's just a mule interior stand in, cause that's a DIRECT CLONE of the Miata's intetior

[ifcar]

Also, I hope that's just a mule interior stand in, cause that's a DIRECT CLONE of the Miata's intetior

That wouldn't be unprecedented:



But hey, at least it's a nice interior! I hope the front end of the Fiat comes out looking better than in the spy photos, though.

[2o6]

That wouldn't be unprecedented:



But hey, at least it's a nice interior! I hope the front end of the Fiat comes out looking better than in the spy photos, though.

Yeah, the iA seems disappointing. If they had an iA hatch (Mazda 2) I'd forgive them

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Because it will be built on the same line as the Miata in Japan, that's why.

Using bespoke body panels in a lower production run(not just he car, but the parts).

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but thinking a more powerful and lower production italian (Branded) roadster is going to be within a few K of the mass market japanese car is pure fantasy IMO.

[MrH]

I'm really doubting they give the Fiata the 240 hp engine.  That's a huge step up from 155 hp.  That could mean new powertrain components, new chassis tuning, all sorts of stuff.

[68_427]

The proportions are ass

[TBR]

Doesn't look great in the pics. Wouldn't surprise me if the base model is equivalently trimmed to the top Miata and a couple thousand more expensive. That's what I would do if I were them.

[MX793]

Tail lights are an improvement over the Mazda.  I think I prefer the Mazda front end styling.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I just don't understand how Mazda would let happen:

1. Fiat (Chrysler) stealing their platform
2. Fiat (Chrysler) ruining the balance with all that extra power

Italian sports cars are supposed to be Italian...

[ifcar]

I just don't understand how Mazda would let happen:

1. Fiat (Chrysler) stealing their platform
2. Fiat (Chrysler) ruining the balance with all that extra power

Italian sports cars are supposed to be Italian...

Probably because Mazda needs the money.

[Payman]

I just don't understand how Mazda would let happen:

1. Fiat (Chrysler) stealing their platform
2. Fiat (Chrysler) ruining the balance with all that extra power

Italian sports cars are supposed to be Italian...

1. So... Toyota stole Subaru's platform (BRZ/FRS)???
2. The 1.4T MultiAir is SMALLER and most likely LIGHTER than the 2.0 SkyActive, and power level isn't even confirmed yet.

Nothing wrong with an Italian sportscar that will be RELIABLE.

[Payman]

I'm really doubting they give the Fiata the 240 hp engine.  That's a huge step up from 155 hp.  That could mean new powertrain components, new chassis tuning, all sorts of stuff.

You guys are starting to sound like the MSN Autos comments section.

[12,000 RPM]

1. So... Toyota stole Subaru's platform (BRZ/FRS)???
2. The 1.4T MultiAir is SMALLER and most likely LIGHTER than the 2.0 SkyActive, and power level isn't even confirmed yet.

Nothing wrong with an Italian sportscar that will be RELIABLE.

Re: #2

Not so much. I listened to an interview with Dave Coleman who is a big wig for Mazda's chassis design. Remember him? He was the Sport Compact Car dude. Anyway someone asked him why Mazda didn't do the 2.5L.... everyone thought it was just a punched out 2.0L, but in actuality it's a completely different engine. Mazda doesn't just use one head/block and change the guts; they redo the whole engines apparently as it doesn't cost much more to do.

Point of all that being the 2.0 may be optimized for it's size, so the 1.4T might not be an easy fit. Especially if that 1.4T head/block are sized to accommodate bigger displacements. Might be closer to a 2.0L itself in external size, along with the turbo and associated plumbing.

Re: #1

Freeze Breeze was a legit collaborative effort.

I am tentative as hell about this Fiata thing. Miata is good, FCA makes fun cars but this thing has the potential to be a real mess.

[Cookie Monster]

1. So... Toyota stole Subaru's platform (BRZ/FRS)???
2. The 1.4T MultiAir is SMALLER and most likely LIGHTER than the 2.0 SkyActive, and power level isn't even confirmed yet.

Nothing wrong with an Italian sportscar that will be RELIABLE.

Do you have any numbers to back up #2? I would think Mazda's 2.0 is already pretty light.

[Payman]

Do you have any numbers to back up #2? I would think Mazda's 2.0 is already pretty light.

I couldn't find the weight specs of either engine after a brief search, so why assume the 1.4 is heavier just because it makes more power?