Poor people die more often in car incidents

[AutobahnSHO]

Interesting....

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/poor-people-are-more-likely-1269510948192310.html

This also includes pedestrian accidents...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Statistics are often so misleading and inconclusive.

My observation and experience, though, is I have been hit twice by people who were obviously poor and stupid.
But me, with a two-year degree and 180 random college credits and probably 3-4x more miles of driving... I have hit nobody.

[MX793]

Fatality rate is understandable given that wealthier people can afford newer/safer cars.  I'd be curious if the accident rate correlates with wealth/education level (i.e. do poor or poorly educated people get in more accidents per mile driven?).

[Soup DeVille]

Fatality rate is understandable given that wealthier people can afford newer/safer cars.  I'd be curious if the accident rate correlates with wealth/education level (i.e. do poor or poorly educated people get in more accidents per mile driven?).

Actually it says that poor people are less safe than they used to be. That doesn't necessarily follow because of new cars being safer.

I think we can all agree that cars have gotten safer over the years; so a 10 year old car in 2000 will also be less safe than a 10 year old car in 2015: one being a 1980 model and the other a 2005.

Even if the average age of cars on the road is steadily increasing (all things considered generally a good thing), then even "older" cars should be getting safer as well.

[MX793]

Actually it says that poor people are less safe than they used to be. That doesn't necessarily follow because of new cars being safer.

I think we can all agree that cars have gotten safer over the years; so a 10 year old car in 2000 will also be less safe than a 10 year old car in 2015: one being a 1980 model and the other a 2005.

Even if the average age of cars on the road is steadily increasing (all things considered generally a good thing), then even "older" cars should be getting safer as well.

It's not just the safety features, but the state of the vehicle itself.  I wouldn't expect a well-rusted, 18-year old vehicle to perform as well in a crash as that same vehicle in like-new condition.

[AutobahnSHO]

not to mention driver behavior, seatbelt (non)use, alcohol/drug involvement, and tons of other factors.

[Soup DeVille]

It's not just the safety features, but the state of the vehicle itself.  I wouldn't expect a well-rusted, 18-year old vehicle to perform as well in a crash as that same vehicle in like-new condition.

No, but again; if anything, cars are rusting less badly than they used to as well. Granted, a 2000 Camry may not be as safe now as it was when new; but its not poor people were buying brand new cars in 2000 either. What would be the comparable car for that? A 1990 Cavalier?

[GoCougs]

Howzabout we track for things like DUI, seat belt use, poor driving...

[280Z Turbo]

A lot of poor people are poor because they're stupid and unprofessional. If they can't even take their temp job as a button masher at a local factory seriously then why would they be serious about driving a car?

[Eye of the Tiger]

A lot of poor people are poor because they're stupid and unprofessional. If they can't even take their temp job as a button masher at a local factory seriously then why would they be serious about driving a car?

+11111111
It's amazing how some people even survive.

[12,000 RPM]

Howzabout we track for things like DUI, seat belt use, poor driving...

Indeed, lets give police more power to terrorize the poor.

[AutobahnSHO]

Indeed, lets give police more power to terrorize the poor.

negatory, we meant just look at the stats

[12,000 RPM]

How do you track "poor driving"?

[Eye of the Tiger]

How do you track "poor driving"?

Follow any thugged out Crown Vic, Buick, or Nissan Altima for more than five seconds.

[MX793]

How do you track "poor driving"?

You can track it as it relates to (fatal) accidents at least to some degree.  Accidents involving DUI, fatalities when no seatbelts were being worn, accidents caused by someone failing to yield the right of way....

[Soup DeVille]

You can track it as it relates to (fatal) accidents at least to some degree.  Accidents involving DUI, fatalities when no seatbelts were being worn, accidents caused by someone failing to yield the right of way....

Oh, you know the retort you are going to hear from this already, don't you?

[TBR]

No, but again; if anything, cars are rusting less badly than they used to as well. Granted, a 2000 Camry may not be as safe now as it was when new; but its not poor people were buying brand new cars in 2000 either. What would be the comparable car for that? A 1990 Cavalier?

Wonder if poorer people are driving older cars than they used to because of how much longer cars built in the late '80s / early '90s last versus the cars built in the late '70s / early '80s.

Could help explain the poor vs rich gap widening, but not the poor rates being higher than they previously were.

[Soup DeVille]

Wonder if poorer people are driving older cars than they used to because of how much longer cars built in the late '80s / early '90s last versus the cars built in the late '70s / early '80s.

Could help explain the poor vs rich gap widening, but not the poor rates being higher than they previously were.

Yeah, that makes sense to a certain extent. I was also wondering if it just might be a mass problem; that is, has the average mass of new cars gone up significantly? Are a lot of these accidents old car versus new SUV?

[AutobahnSHO]

Historically car fatalities have gone down as use has gone up, due to better safety features.

however, the fatality rates have always followed a trend- more horrible drivers or people who drive in particular manner are more likely to be involved in fatalities. I believe that's  probably always been the same group of people...

[VTEC_Inside]

A lot of poor people are poor because they're stupid and unprofessional. If they can't even take their temp job as a button masher at a local factory seriously then why would they be serious about driving a car?

+11111112

[GoCougs]

Cars have relatively little to do with it - all the big safety innovations that were supposed to be total game changers - ABS, stability control, air bags, etc. - though better than nothing didn't do much to improve stats.

The biggest cause of traffic fatalities is not using a seat belt (Googling the various studies seat belt use would reduce fatalities by 50-60%) and just as with other irresponsible behaviors bet your last dollar that seat belt use tracks with socio-economic level.

[Rich]

I thought deaths per accident have decreased?

Cars have relatively little to do with it - all the big safety innovations that were supposed to be total game changers - ABS, stability control, air bags, etc. - though better than nothing didn't do much to improve stats.

[Morris Minor]

Poverty is hazardous.
Hopefully no taxpayers were impoverished funding this "study."

[Eye of the Tiger]

Poverty is hazardous.
Hopefully no taxpayers were impoverished funding this "study."

Good point. We should have tested it on animals before we released it to the general public.

[Submariner]

Good point. We should have tested it on animals before we released it to the general public.

But they already tested it on poor people. 

[565]

Cars have relatively little to do with it - all the big safety innovations that were supposed to be total game changers - ABS, stability control, air bags, etc. - though better than nothing didn't do much to improve stats.

The biggest cause of traffic fatalities is not using a seat belt (Googling the various studies seat belt use would reduce fatalities by 50-60%) and just as with other irresponsible behaviors bet your last dollar that seat belt use tracks with socio-economic level.

That is not true at all.  Safety features, especially airbags have been game changers.  This is especially evident to us in the orthopedic world.  Prior to airbags, most high speed motor vehicle crashes resulted in fatalities due to head and chest trauma despite the use of airbags.  Since airbags most people survive their head and chest trauma so that their orthopedic injuries, namely extremity trauma, become an issue for us to operate on them (previously they were mostly just corpses).  It is enough of a change that a multi billion dollar orthopedic fracture device industry has blossomed in the past 2 decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

Look at chart, deaths per miles traveled continued to drop long after seat belts were invented.   In addition if you look at the chart, since 1996 (around the time when airbags were saturating the market), deaths per miles traveled have continued to drop nearly every year.)

[MX793]

IIRC, studies found that stability control single-handedly reduced single-vehicle accidents by 30-40%.

[GoCougs]

That is not true at all.  Safety features, especially airbags have been game changers.  This is especially evident to us in the orthopedic world.  Prior to airbags, most high speed motor vehicle crashes resulted in fatalities due to head and chest trauma despite the use of airbags.  Since airbags most people survive their head and chest trauma so that their orthopedic injuries, namely extremity trauma, become an issue for us to operate on them (previously they were mostly just corpses).  It is enough of a change that a multi billion dollar orthopedic fracture device industry has blossomed in the past 2 decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

Look at chart, deaths per miles traveled continued to drop long after seat belts were invented.   In addition if you look at the chart, since 1996 (around the time when airbags were saturating the market), deaths per miles traveled have continued to drop nearly every year.)

Your OJT experiences are studies and anecdotes, not data.

Google the stats on airbags - estimated to have saved ~30,000 in the ~30 years since the start of adoption. That's an average of 3 lives/day against the backdrop of an average population of 200,000,000 driving 250,000,000,000 (billion) miles a year. Sure, better than nothing but that's mega light years from being a game changer.

Since 1990 and the adoption of major safety features - airbags, ABS, stability control, CAD-designed unit-body chassis, there are no step functions or major changes in improvement. In fact the stats look to be asymptotically approaching a decidedly non-zero minimum:



Increasing seat belt use and decreasing DUI is where the vast majority of improvement in traffic stats has come from. Everything else is secondary or tertiary; vehicle safety features, better road design, education, quicker emergency response, health care advances.

[Soup DeVille]

When trending towards zero, isn't an asymptotic relationship to be expected?

[Rupert]

Car crashes could start bringing people back from the dead...