Autonomous Cars

[r0tor]

Grand Tour had a nice segment about bullying self driving cars... Good stuff

[Morris Minor]

IMO it may "happen" just not within the next number of decades, for it requires inordinate amount of infrastructure spending and upheaval, and government power, esp. at the local/regional level.

But this was mostly "solved" ~100 years ago, with electric trolleys and commuter trains, but that's so unsexy and plebeian.

Trains & trolleys don't take you from where you are to where you want to be.

[Morris Minor]

As transition, it may be that cars need to be piloted manually until they are in a position to request to enter automated mode.

Exactly. They'll have low-level autonomy modes that still require driver authority to get through the minor streets (much like Teslas do now,) then switch to full hands-off mode when they latch onto the infrastructure of the main arteries.

[Laconian]

requires inordinate amount of infrastructure spending and upheaval, and government power, esp. at the local/regional level.

Like what, specifically?

[giant_mtb]

Because the government is really good at maintaining roads.

[12,000 RPM]

As transition, it may be that cars need to be piloted manually until they are in a position to request to enter automated mode.

An autonomous solution that requires regular human intervention is not autonomous

I want to get in my car and have the ability to play with my balls from the start of the trip to the end without any interruptions. That's my autonomous threshold and we are nowhere close to that.

[Laconian]

An autonomous solution that requires regular human intervention is not autonomous

I want to get in my car and have the ability to play with my balls from the start of the trip to the end without any interruptions. That's my autonomous threshold and we are nowhere close to that.

That's not true. Waymo has graduated to Level 4. https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/7/16615290/waymo-self-driving-safety-driver-chandler-autonomous

Level 4 ("mind off"): As level 3, but no driver attention is ever required for safety, i.e. the driver may safely go to sleep or leave the driver's seat. Self driving is supported only in limited areas (geofenced) or under special circumstances, like traffic jams. Outside of these areas or circumstances, the vehicle must be able to safely abort the trip, i.e. park the car, if the driver does not retake control.

[giant_mtb]

Only when all cars are autonomous would I ever maybe be able to fully relax and, say, sleep in the car while it drives itself.

[AutobahnSHO]

IMO it may "happen" just not within the next number of decades, for it requires inordinate amount of infrastructure spending and upheaval, and government power, esp. at the local/regional level.

No, technology is bringing autonomous cars to the roadways we have NOW. Did you watch the video?

But this was mostly "solved" ~100 years ago, with electric trolleys and commuter trains, but that's so unsexy and plebeian.

No one likes to be bound to a schedule and a particular route. I doubt you've commuted on public transportation, when it's available.

[AutobahnSHO]

Only when all cars are autonomous would I ever maybe be able to fully relax and, say, sleep in the car while it drives itself.

iknorite   Don't need to fear some idiot driver will hit me.

[Soup DeVille]

An autonomous solution that requires regular human intervention is not autonomous

I want to get in my car and have the ability to play with my balls from the start of the trip to the end without any interruptions. That's my autonomous threshold and we are nowhere close to that.

Some of us have different priorities.

[Soup DeVille]

Only when all cars are autonomous would I ever maybe be able to fully relax and, say, sleep in the car while it drives itself.

Dude, I can't sleep in a damned hotel room half the time.

[giant_mtb]

Dude, I can't sleep in a damned hotel room half the time.

I hear ya.  I generally don't like sleeping in the car as it is, even with somebody I trust driving.  I'm very much a "driver," probably a control thing.

[MX793]

I can't sleep in a vehicle.  I can sleep through a fair bit of background noise, but the slightest bump or motion wakes me up.

[12,000 RPM]

Some of us have different priorities.

Thats not a priority for me personally, just the threshold I've defined. As we move towards Idiocracy, the compulsion to play "Ow, My Balls" will consume mankind. I just want our "go there boxes" to be up to the task.

[Soup DeVille]

Thats not a priority for me personally, just the threshold I've defined. As we move towards Idiocracy, the compulsion to play "Ow, My Balls" will consume mankind. I just want our "go there boxes" to be up to the task.

So, you defined an impossible standard just to say it can't be done, while ignoring all the interim steps.

[Laconian]

So, you defined an impossible standard just to say it can't be done, while ignoring all the interim steps.

And blatantly ignoring the statistics that prove that Waymo's cars are already much safer than human driving. The accident rate is 10 times lower than the safest human driver demographic bracket (60-69 years) and 40 times lower than new drivers.

A 4000% improvement? Where is the bar if that number is still unacceptable, or is the objection purely emotional/irrational?

[GoCougs]

Like what, specifically?

Unsigned intersections? Unmarked roads? Roundabouts? Differing pavement colors? Dynamic signage? Dead stoplights? Construction zones? Just think of the variation on these issues and many others in our area, now add up possible iterations across the whole of the country...

I have confidence that cars do okay within a given process window, but legitimately replacing a driver for everyday driving on today's roads just isn't going to happen. Infrastructure will have to be homogenized to at least a moderate extent for that to happen.

[GoCougs]

Trains & trolleys don't take you from where you are to where you want to be.

Some do, like at airports. The train/electric bus/trolley mostly solves the hard issue (narrowing process window ginormously).

[Laconian]

Unsigned intersections? Unmarked roads? Roundabouts? Differing pavement colors? Dynamic signage? Dead stoplights? Construction zones? Just think of the variation on these issues and many others in our area, now add up possible iterations across the whole of the country...

A self driving car will "see" the dead stoplight before most people would, because it knows that a stoplight should be there. Many drivers would breeze right through if they lacked prior direct experience with that intersection. Ditto for unmarked roads. Autonomous cars can do better than people for ambiguous cases given that they will have access to a rich layer of road metadata and geometry data which requires zero public funds to acquire, QA, and serve.

[giant_mtb]

Some do, like at airports. The train/electric bus/trolley mostly solves the hard issue (narrowing process window ginormously).

For cities, sure. 

[GoCougs]

A self driving car will "see" the dead stoplight before most people would, because it knows that a stoplight should be there. Many drivers would breeze right through if they lacked prior direct experience with that intersection. Ditto for unmarked roads. Autonomous cars can do better than people for ambiguous cases given that they will have access to a rich layer of road metadata and geometry data which requires zero public funds to acquire, QA, and serve.

Stoplights can be mounted in many places - above the road or on a pole across the intersection on either side, plus there's vertical vs. horizontal, LED vs. incandescent, blinking yellow, vs. solid yellow, arrows or no arrows. None of it is particularly hard, but there is a lot of it, and it sometimes changes.

All in all, I'll see it when I believe it.

[12,000 RPM]

So, you defined an impossible standard just to say it can't be done, while ignoring all the interim steps.

No, I just wanted to reference "Ow, My Balls!"

And blatantly ignoring the statistics that prove that Waymo's cars are already much safer than human driving. The accident rate is 10 times lower than the safest human driver demographic bracket (60-69 years) and 40 times lower than new drivers.

A 4000% improvement? Where is the bar if that number is still unacceptable, or is the objection purely emotional/irrational?

Safer in certain conditions. Even their testing in Arizona is fenced in. Bring that shit to the Midtown Tunnel... JFK.... Belt Parkway And even with this, the tech can't cover everything. I think covering that last gap will take a lot longer than people realize. But reaching level 5 is key IMO.

[Morris Minor]

The Wikipedia article on autonomous cars is good. It touches on the definition of autonomous that Sporty mentioned above. EG laying a tracking system within road infrastructure to control cars, makes the cars automatic, not autonomous. (So, I guess, does painting white limes for them to follow.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car

[AutobahnSHO]

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/24/qualcomm-self-driving-tech-california/

Qualcomm and Nokia are working on self-driving cars too?!?!?!!!

[Xer0]

I want to get in my car and have the ability to play with my balls from the start of the trip to the end without any interruptions. That's my autonomous threshold and we are nowhere close to that.

That's like what, a 5 minute trip at the most 

[Morris Minor]

MATH SAYS YOU'RE DRIVING WRONG AND IT'S SLOWING US ALL DOWN.

AH, THE PHANTOM traffic jam. You know, that thing where the flow suddenly slows to a halt and you inch forward for a half hour and then things pick up again and you look around for an accident or construction or anything at all for Pete's sake that might justify the time you just wasted. But no, nothing. It's as if the fates chose this particular time and place to screw with you.

The question is, why? People tailgating and bunching up, maybe. But a new study in IEEE Transactions on Intelligent Transportation Systems mathematically models the implications of the larger problem: You're not keeping the right distance from the car behind you.

Read on...
https://www.wired.com/story/math-says-youre-driving-wrong-and-its-slowing-us-all-down/

[CaminoRacer]

I usually do that.

[AutobahnSHO]

Go to Vegas, ride in a self-driving car.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/02/lyft-will-offer-autonomous-rides-in-las-vegas-during-ces/

[AutobahnSHO]

Two riders of an autonomous car went to the hospital.

A small human-driven box truck ran a red light and T-boned them.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/10/argo-ai-self-driving-test-car-hit-in-pittsburgh-as-truck-runs-red-light/