Un-frigging-believable..... New car purchase woes

[280Z Turbo]

A great deal of shit happens at dealerships that we don't tell you about.

I remember when I worked at one of the Chevy dealerships, a brand new Cruze fell off the truck as it was being unloaded from transport. driver had the platform angled the wrong way, and he wasn't familiar with how to drive stick.

I'm sure there's a lot of rework that happens at the assembly plant that nobody knows about too.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Somewhere in Germany.

"Was ist das?"

"Das ist mein Challenger mit der scheisse pack"

"Scheisse?!?!?!"

"Ja"

"Scheisse ist gut?"

"Ja, Scheisse ist sehr gut!"

[Laconian]

You could call the car the Scat Packer.

[Payman]

Fudge Rattler

[MX793]

I got the call today that repairs were complete, so I went to the dealer to check it out.  Paint work looks good.  Unfortunately, it was heavily overcast so I wasn't able to see it in bright sunlight, but in very diffuse natural light and under the fluorescent lights in their service bay I was unable to see a difference between the trunk and the adjacent panels (including the roof).  Trunk felt fine when I opened and closed it.  Their shop is Ford certified, so the paintwork is treated "as factory" and I was assured this wouldn't show up on a CarFax or similar.  My salesperson has a request in with the local Ford rep to see if they can get me something extra for my inconvenience by way of some kind of extended warranty plan or service plan and/or some additional rebate or discount.  We'll see what they come back with.  Additionally, I was told they'd honor both the X plan pricing and rebates that were available when I ordered the car 3+ months ago rather than current price and rebate levels, since X plan pricing has gone up slightly and the rebates were recently cut in half from what they were when I ordered.  Normally, you get whatever the pricing a rebates are at the time of delivery, not the time of order.  When I got my 2011, that played to my favor because they doubled the rebate between when I ordered and when I took delivery.

I also got a chance to take it for a little spin.  http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=11274.msg2156887#msg2156887

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I suggest yiu look it over VERY closely during the say in the sunlight and maybe the shade.

[MX793]

I suggest yiu look it over VERY closely during the say in the sunlight and maybe the shade.

Unfortunately, sunny days get to be increasingly rare here this time of year.  Our climate is a lot like Seattle, but we have 20% more days with precipitation and a lot more snow.

It's supposed to be sunny tomorrow.  I'll swing by and hope that my car is parked outside.  Otherwise, I work from dark to dark (sun is only up 9 hours a day now anyway), so I won't get another chance to look at it again in daylight until Thursday or Friday (I'm off both days this coming week).  If the forecast can be believed, it'll be cloudy and raining Thursday and cloudy Friday.

I spent a fair bit of time looking at it from all angles outside in overcast daylight, both up close and taking some steps back so I could see the whole car.  I'm convinced they did some blending with the rear fenders.  Even the level of orange peel looked consistent with what I saw on the roof, which definitely would have been untouched/unblended.

[12,000 RPM]

So are you going to keep it? From the impressions it sounds like you like it.

[SVT666]

Awesome car man. My local Ford dealer has a dark red Stang with black wheels and I drool every time I go by.

[CaminoRacer]

Camaro SS 1LE would be a better autocrosser. 

My initial reaction would have been to walk, but with a discount and good repair it might be okay.

[MX793]

Camaro SS 1LE would be a better autocrosser. 

My initial reaction would have been to walk, but with a discount and good repair it might be okay.

Results from the SCCA Solo nationals would beg to differ.

[Byteme]

I'm convinced they did some blending with the rear fenders. 

I'd be surprised if they didn't.

[JWC]

I'd be surprised if they didn't.

There isn't anyway to tell where the painter decided to blend without him telling you. It would be based on the lines of the car. A few times I had customers complain about the fenders (or whatever) not matching, only it was still the untouched factory paint. It just appeared not to match because of the sunlight hitting the car at a particular angle. We had one woman so pissed off about her car not matching, that the manager said to her to leave it and we'd fix it. We parked the car overnight---didn't touch it---called her back to check it, and she said it was perfect and we should have done a quality job like that the first time and saved everyone time.

[MX793]

The sun is actually out today so I stopped by to see if by some chance the car was parked outside.  Looks like they moved it inside for safe keeping, which I have a hard time complaining about.  Looks like I won't get a chance to see it in sunlight until Friday, weather permitting.

[Payman]

The sun is actually out today so I stopped by to see if by some chance the car was parked outside.  Looks like they moved it inside for safe keeping, which I have a hard time complaining about.  Looks like I won't get a chance to see it in sunlight until Friday, weather permitting.

How long do you have to make a decision?

[280Z Turbo]

Camaro SS 1LE would be a better autocrosser. 

My initial reaction would have been to walk, but with a discount and good repair it might be okay.

How can you win at autocross if you can't see the cones?

[12,000 RPM]

How can you win at autocross if you can't see the cones?

Lol was just about to say the same.

[CaminoRacer]

Results from the SCCA Solo nationals would beg to differ.

True, but there were also a lot more Mustangs there. At the local level, majority of the pony car guys that I've talked to prefer the Camaro.

How can you win at autocross if you can't see the cones?

The 2014 Mustang was just as bad, I assume the 2015 is about the same.

[MX793]

So are you going to keep it? From the impressions it sounds like you like it.

How long do you have to make a decision?

I have not been given a deadline and I haven't signed anything other than the order document that confirmed the breakdown of my order.  They're still waiting to hear from Ford about what extras they can give me, so they aren't ready to close the deal yet anyway.  I mentioned a few times while looking over the car that I really wanted to see it in bright sunlight, though I overall gave the vibe that I was going to take the car.  New car excitement got the better of me.  I told them that Thursday is the earliest I'd be able to do anything in terms of taking delivery due to my work schedule and my salesperson is off Thursdays, so Friday is the earliest day I'd possibly be taking delivery.  It's supposed to be nice and mostly sunny the early part of the week; I may try to either take a long lunch or slip out early tomorrow or Tuesday to get a chance to see it in bright sunlight.  Work has been really hectic as of late, so we'll see if that's even possible.  I won't sign anything until I've seen it in bright daylight and if it doesn't look right in those conditions, whether I'm able to see it early in the week or on Friday, I'll refuse delivery.  Seems like overcast skies are more apt to reveal issues than bright sun, since the glare off the surface from the sun can mask things you might see under more diffuse light, so I'm somewhat confident it will look fine in the sun as well.  We'll see what they come back with in terms of discounts/rebates/extras, too.  They broached the subject yesterday before I could when they said they had a request in with Ford about additional extras or rebates and were waiting to hear back, so I just kind of nodded and left it at that.  I'll let them open with an offer and see where it goes from there.  I probably should have played it a little more "I'm not all that comfortable accepting a repaired car...", but they came back with all of the right answers as far as addressing my main concerns (Ford factory certified body/paint shop with aluminum certification, warranty intact, no Carfax).

I was really stressed out from work (had been in the office 23 of the prior 25 days, weekends included, and people just kept piling more stuff on me) when they dropped the bomb on me that it had been damaged, so I over reacted a bit because it just seemed like anything that could go wrong was.  I'm also a pessimist by nature, so my mind immediately jumped to the worst case scenario.  Between talking to some people (here and IRL), work pressure letting up a bit, seeing the damage, and seeing the repair, I've mellowed.  Actually getting to drive the car didn't hurt, either.

[ifcar]

True, but there were also a lot more Mustangs there. At the local level, majority of the pony car guys that I've talked to prefer the Camaro.

The 2014 Mustang was just as bad, I assume the 2015 is about the same.

[MX793]

True, but there were also a lot more Mustangs there. At the local level, majority of the pony car guys that I've talked to prefer the Camaro.

There are more Mustangs for a reason.  There were more 2015 Mustangs in FS at Nationals this year than 5th Gen Camaros of all years.  A first year car on a totally new platform that owners are still experimenting with to figure out the correct set up for versus a much more established Camaro.  The first year I can find record of a 5th gen Camaro in either the SCCA Solo Nationals or the Pro Solo national tour was 2013 at one of the Pro Solo events.  It lost to an S197 Mustang in FS.  A 1LE won the FS class at Nationals in 2014, the first year a 5th Gen Camaro even entered Nationals, but the rest of the top ten was evenly mixed between S197 Mustangs and E9x M3s.  The other Camaros finished 12, 13, 25, and 26 (out of 26 entries).  This year, that same driver/car placed 11th.  The top 3 Camaros finished 11th, 14th, and 16th.  The top 3 2015 Mustangs finished 3rd, 6th, and 13th.

Locally, over the past 5 seasons, I've seen two 5th gens compete with one of our neighboring regions (we do a couple of joint/crossover events).  Both V6s; both ran novice.  S197 Mustangs aren't exactly popular locally, either, but I've run against more of them in the past 5 seasons than 5th gen Camaros.  Despite seeing as many or more 5G Camaros on the street than S197 Mustangs.

The 2014 Mustang was just as bad, I assume the 2015 is about the same.

S197 Mustang has vastly better forward and lateral sight lines than the 5th gen Camaro (better rear too, but that doesn't matter in autoX).  The new Mustang is slightly better than the outgoing model because they shrunk the A pillar and side mirrors.

[CaminoRacer]

There are more Mustangs for a reason.  There were more 2015 Mustangs in FS at Nationals this year than 5th Gen Camaros of all years.  A first year car on a totally new platform that owners are still experimenting with to figure out the correct set up for versus a much more established Camaro.  The first year I can find record of a 5th gen Camaro in either the SCCA Solo Nationals or the Pro Solo national tour was 2013 at one of the Pro Solo events.  It lost to an S197 Mustang in FS.  A 1LE won the FS class at Nationals in 2014, the first year a 5th Gen Camaro even entered Nationals, but the rest of the top ten was evenly mixed between S197 Mustangs and E9x M3s.  The other Camaros finished 12, 13, 25, and 26 (out of 26 entries).  This year, that same driver/car placed 11th.  The top 3 Camaros finished 11th, 14th, and 16th.  The top 3 2015 Mustangs finished 3rd, 6th, and 13th.

Locally, over the past 5 seasons, I've seen two 5th gens compete with one of our neighboring regions (we do a couple of joint/crossover events).  Both V6s; both ran novice.  S197 Mustangs aren't exactly popular locally, either, but I've run against more of them in the past 5 seasons than 5th gen Camaros.  Despite seeing as many or more 5G Camaros on the street than S197 Mustangs.

S197 Mustang has vastly better forward and lateral sight lines than the 5th gen Camaro (better rear too, but that doesn't matter in autoX).  The new Mustang is slightly better than the outgoing model because they shrunk the A pillar and side mirrors.

My experience my also be tainted by attending other types of events.

I think most guys that would race Camaros end up getting a Corvette. Same thing is happening in USCA and other events - Danny Popp did well in a C5 Corvette at last year's OUSCI and this year there were a lot more C5s.

Nice of them to shrink the A pillar and mirrors, since that was my biggest complaint when I autox'd a 2014. I've never had a problem with forward vision in either, assuming I was looking 1+ corner ahead like you're supposed to anyway.

[MX793]

My experience my also be tainted by attending other types of events.

I think most guys that would race Camaros end up getting a Corvette. Same thing is happening in USCA and other events - Danny Popp did well in a C5 Corvette at last year's OUSCI and this year there were a lot more C5s.

Nice of them to shrink the A pillar and mirrors, since that was my biggest complaint when I autox'd a 2014. I've never had a problem with forward vision in either, assuming I was looking 1+ corner ahead like you're supposed to anyway.

We tend to run in smaller parking lots where looking 1+ corners ahead means you are looking out of the side glass.  This course is on a particularly small lot (that we don't go to anymore, thankfully).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO4O66UUTFg

See that cone on the very left just after where the starter stands but before the start lights?  It counted as a penalty even though it was outside of the timed portion of the course and I saw several people clip it with their inside rear wheel.  Not uncommon for use to do starts like that.  That's the sort of cone that would be hard to see in a 5G Camaro unless you take special note of it as you're lining up with the starter.

Even in larger lots our courses will have 180s, or corners tighter than 90, leading into slaloms where you're looking out of the side glass to see where you want to go next.

[CaminoRacer]

That is pretty tight. All of the SCCA courses I've run on are around half a mile long and pretty wide open. Of course compared to Goodguys courses that's still lots of room.

[BimmerM3]

We tend to run in smaller parking lots where looking 1+ corners ahead means you are looking out of the side glass.  This course is on a particularly small lot (that we don't go to anymore, thankfully).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO4O66UUTFg

See that cone on the very left just after where the starter stands but before the start lights?  It counted as a penalty even though it was outside of the timed portion of the course and I saw several people clip it with their inside rear wheel.  Not uncommon for use to do starts like that.  That's the sort of cone that would be hard to see in a 5G Camaro unless you take special note of it as you're lining up with the starter.

Even in larger lots our courses will have 180s, or corners tighter than 90, leading into slaloms where you're looking out of the side glass to see where you want to go next.

Dude needs to learn how to edit the beginning of his videos.

[MX793]

Ducked out of work a little early today and managed to beat the sunset to take a look at it in direct sunlight.  Looked at it with and without my polarized sunglasses (which can sometimes show weird things due to the polarization).  Still not able to see any color difference.  There was a surface on the rear bumper that was essentially parallel with the back surface on the trunk lid and with the setting sunlight shining right on them, the two looked spot-on the same to my eyes as far as color and the way the metal flake picked up the light.  Even the texture seemed damned close to that of the rear quarters with a hint of dimply/orange peel texture.  Perhaps not exact, but very close.  Close enough that I've seen about as much disparity in texture/orange peel on 100% factory paint jobs.  A real paint connoisseur, after a close examination, might be able to spot it, but I'd be surprised if any mere mortals would be able to tell even if they examined the car closely unless you told them.  Still waiting to hear from Ford as far as rebates/extended warranty/whatever.  Should hear tomorrow.

[Byteme]

Should hear tomorrow.

Oil changes for life and a set of tires when these wear out would be a decent start.  A 10% reduction in what you are paying for the thing would be even better. 

[MX793]

I don't have high hopes for more than a few hundred dollars off.  X plan pricing is already barely above invoice.  I don't see them going thousands beneath that.  X plan is also, technically, non-negotiable.  They'd be financially better off telling me to order a different car.  This is a pretty small dealership in a small, rural community (though part of a larger dealership family).  This isn't one of those big volume dealerships that has a dozen Mustangs in inventory at any given time.  I doubt their allocation is more than 4 (I only saw them get 3 2015s).  My guess is they'll offer an additional $500 and an extended factory warranty plan.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I don't have high hopes for more than a few hundred dollars off.  X plan pricing is already barely above invoice.  I don't see them going thousands beneath that.  X plan is also, technically, non-negotiable.  They'd be financially better off telling me to order a different car.  This is a pretty small dealership in a small, rural community (though part of a larger dealership family).  This isn't one of those big volume dealerships that has a dozen Mustangs in inventory at any given time.  I doubt their allocation is more than 4 (I only saw them get 3 2015s).  My guess is they'll offer an additional $500 and an extended factory warranty plan.

Cougs would have gotten 10 grand off, a million mile warranty and free luxury loaners. Plus a advertising contract for their local billboards.

Seriously though, 500 off and an extended warranty is decent enough.

[SJ_GTI]

Cougs would have gotten 10 grand off, a million mile warranty and free luxury loaners. Plus a advertising contract for their local billboards.

Main strategy, from what I understand, is to wear a sport jacket when negotiating for the discount.