Lincoln Continental Production Version

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

For the price the dealers were asking for the cars, sure. That it uses a bunch of parts that also happen to be shared with the LS doesn't make it intrinsically bad. If they built the car to meet the price point it was originally meant to hit, and assuming the design and manufacturing of a completely different set of interior pieces costed nothing: would the interior have been any 'better', even if it used bespoke parts? It would have been different, to a point, but better? 'Better' materials? Tighter tolerances?

I'd argue no: it was built to a price point, and it used parts that were shared with a car that hit a similar price point. It didn't share interior parts with a Festiva, it shared parts with a god-damned Lincoln. Is that so bad, is that such a fucking travesty that it ruins the car?

My mom traded an LS for the Thunderbird. The T Bird also lost a lot of little things that the LS had. The digital display for your secondary systems was changed to Idiot Lights, It didn't have memory for your seats and driving position and like Kev mentioned it had painted pieces instead of the wood that was used in the LS! For what it cost Ford could have left all that shit intact! 

[93JC]

C'mon man, wood wouldn't have suited that car at all.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

C'mon man, wood wouldn't have suited that car at all.

I disagree! Especially in the color combo I had. In Merlot with the tan package wood would've looked 50 times better than the silver painted pieces!

[93JC]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. 

[Raza]

Speaking of Bentley, I'm surprised there hasn't been a legal dispute over who owns the Continental name.  Granted, Lincoln used in first, in 1939, and continued to build the first generation Continental until 1948, when the name went dormant at FoMoCo for the first time.  Meanwhile, Bentley built their first Continental in 1952, after Lincoln had shelved the name.  Then Lincoln revived it in 1956.  Both Lincoln and Bentley Continentals were produced concurrently until Bentley dropped the name in 1965, where it remained unused until 1984.  Bentley Continentals have been built ever since.  With the exception of a one-year hiatus in 1981 (not counting the Mark Series), the Continental name was a mainstay at Lincoln from 1956 through 2002.

Considering both companies have long and storied histories using the Continental name, I suspect neither one can legally lay exclusive claim to it.  This is probably one of the few times in automotive history when two unrelated companies have been able to build and sell two different cars sharing the same model name at the same time.  It really shouldn't matter, however, since I'm positive absolutely no one will ever cross-shop a Lincoln Continental with a Bentley Continental!

International copyright laws from that long ago are pretty messy, with the US for some time not joining the Berne Convention for over 100 years.  And unlike today, where there is implied copyright in the US, there was a time when US copyright holders actually had to register, similar to a patent (of course, not nearly similar in the standards, since patents are pretty rigorous and copyrights are granted/upheld much, much more freely).  Of course, that's assuming that the same of a car can legally be considered an original work of authorship.  Trademark law could be an avenue to protection, but since the hallmark of mark disputes is source confusion, the fact that they're in different markets might make it irrelevant.  Plus, I'm not entirely sure how courts would classify the name; trademarks need to be more than generic or descriptive to get protection.

It might also might be as simple as the two companies making a gentleman's agreement not to care since they are in two vastly different markets. 

[Soup DeVille]

Use of the Continental name predates Lincoln and Bentley: there were at least three different "Continental Motor Cars" companies in the 1900s. It is possible that Ford never applied for copyright for the name either; as they have been known to make that oversight on other cars (such as the GT40).

[Submariner]

I don't think it was so much a fumble… Ford saw the overwhelming negative reaction to the retro designed Thunderbird, and decided to go a different route.

They sure did - the Mustang. 

[Atomic]

Speaking of Bentley, I'm surprised there hasn't been a legal dispute over who owns the Continental name.  Granted, Lincoln used in first, in 1939, and continued to build the first generation Continental until 1948, when the name went dormant at FoMoCo for the first time.  Meanwhile, Bentley built their first Continental in 1952, after Lincoln had shelved the name.  Then Lincoln revived it in 1956.  Both Lincoln and Bentley Continentals were produced concurrently until Bentley dropped the name in 1965, where it remained unused until 1984.  Bentley Continentals have been built ever since.  With the exception of a one-year hiatus in 1981 (not counting the Mark Series), the Continental name was a mainstay at Lincoln from 1956 through 2002.

Considering both companies have long and storied histories using the Continental name, I suspect neither one can legally lay exclusive claim to it.  This is probably one of the few times in automotive history when two unrelated companies have been able to build and sell two different cars sharing the same model name at the same time.  It really shouldn't matter, however, since I'm positive absolutely no one will ever cross-shop a Lincoln Continental with a Bentley Continental!

Agreed, Madman. I thought the exact same thing just prior to hitting "post" but was thinking someone would pickup on this and you did. Lincoln must have kept its copy right / trademark status or reapplied, unless a name like custom, sport, premier that might be considered commonplace and available for other manufactures, too. Dunno but it would be interesting knowing the rule.

[MX793]

They sure did - the Mustang. 

Which was a success.  Although the Mustang was also really good at being a Mustang beyond its retro looks.

[Submariner]

Which was a success.  Although the Mustang was also really good at being a Mustang beyond its retro looks.

That's kind of my point.  There are ways to do retro right, and the Mustang was one of them.  The old Continental concept looked damn good, and at the right price, would have maintained much of it's visual exclusivity. 

What we got was a fairly bland, fairly forgettable design with a name that evokes not images of the 1960's land yacht, but the 80's-00's Taurus-based rubbish we were told was America's answer to the Euro-sport imports.  That powerful, smooth InTech V8!  The computer controlled air suspension!  The melted Town Car styling!  America!

The only thing that stands out are the 30 way power seats.

[12,000 RPM]

Yep it needs more hard edges and testosterone. The old concept looks better than most high end luxury sedans today and it wouldn't take much to keep most of that edge in production form. We will see what happens though

[Madman]

So if the MKS was a re-bodied Taurus and this "new" Continental is built on top of a stretched Fusion, how exactly is this a game-changer for Lincoln?  Its little more than yet another FoMoCo parts bin re-hash, no different than the stuff Lincoln has been peddling for years.

Look at what Tata has been doing with Jaguar.  If Ford had the vision, they could have done the same, instead of flogging off the company for pennies on the dollar.  Jaguar also has brand recognition around the world, enabling vast global sales potential.  Lincoln barely has any brand equity in North America and absolutely none whatsoever anywhere outside North America, making export potential nil.

In this increasingly globalised world, a USA/Canada-only brand is doomed to fail.  Just ask Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Saturn, Mercury and Pontiac.  Acura, too, while you're at it.

[93JC]

So if the MKS was a re-bodied Taurus and this "new" Continental is built on top of a stretched Fusion, how exactly is this a game-changer for Lincoln?  Its little more than yet another FoMoCo parts bin re-hash, no different than the stuff Lincoln has been peddling for years.

Can you at least try to not be a twat?

[2o6]

I don't think Madman is entirely wrong here, Ford doesn't seem to be able to make the Lincoln brand stick in the US, or other markets like China.



The Continental and MKC and MKX are nice, but I literally can't remember the rest of their lineup

[Madman]

Can you at least try to not be a twat?

Okay, genius.  How about answering the question instead of resorting to cheap personal attacks?

Lincoln were heading in the right direction with the LS, but they let it wither and die on the vine.  Meanwhile, Cadillac is at least trying to produce world-class premium cars that are distinct from other GM brands.  Sure, it will take a long time for consumers to forget the bad-old-days of the Brougham-tastic barge, but at least they're trying to shake off all that negative baggage.

Ford either needs to get serious about Lincoln or give it a mercy killing.  Half-measures like these only serve to damage the brand even further.

[Raza]

Yep it needs more hard edges and testosterone. The old concept looks better than most high end luxury sedans today and it wouldn't take much to keep most of that edge in production form. We will see what happens though

The old concept looks like the original Nissan M45, which looked old when it was new (because it was old).

[CaminoRacer]

Okay, genius.  How about answering the question instead of resorting to cheap personal attacks?

Lincoln were heading in the right direction with the LS, but they let it wither and die on the vine.  Meanwhile, Cadillac is at least trying to produce world-class premium cars that are distinct from other GM brands.  Sure, it will take a long time for consumers to forget the bad-old-days of the Brougham-tastic barge, but at least they're trying to shake off all that negative baggage.

Ford either needs to get serious about Lincoln or give it a mercy killing.  Half-measures like these only serve to damage the brand even further.

I agree.

Also agree with Raza's statement. Not a fan of the previous Continental concept.

[93JC]

Okay, genius.  How about answering the question instead of resorting to cheap personal attacks?

It's not a cheap personal attack, it's a reasonable request I don't think you're capable of fulfilling.

There's no point in talking to you about this car because you've already decided it's a Ford Fusion with a spit shine, despite the fact it is so obviously not. It's damned near the size of god-damned Audi A8, and you're going to sit there and tell us this is a "half-measure" "FoMoCo parts bin re-hash"? Are you fucking kidding me? Take your bullshit and fuck right off.

[Cookie Monster]

 

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Save me some..........

[MrH]

It's not a cheap personal attack, it's a reasonable request I don't think you're capable of fulfilling.

There's no point in talking to you about this car because you've already decided it's a Ford Fusion with a spit shine, despite the fact it is so obviously not. It's damned near the size of god-damned Audi A8, and you're going to sit there and tell us this is a "half-measure" "FoMoCo parts bin re-hash"? Are you fucking kidding me? Take your bullshit and fuck right off.

[Speed_Racer]

Save me some..........

Hold on, I'll go make some more.

[Madman]

Look, I hope I'm wrong about the Continental.

I think it would be nice if the Continental were a success.  After all, Lincoln desperately needs a home-run hit right now.  I just don't see anyone choosing this over a 5 Series, an E Class, an Audi A6 or a Jaguar XF.  At least the Continental looks sufficiently different enough from the unloved MKS to discourage any unfavourable comparisons.

Will the Continental prove to be greater than the sum of its parts?  I hope so.  But it has an uphill battle in front of it.


EDIT:  Looks like I'm not the only one who has doubts about the Continental, either.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/21/2017-lincoln-continental-debate-featured/

[12,000 RPM]

Madman Madman Madman

We saw what your approach did for Cadillac. We have been over this ad nauseum. Luxury buyers don't give a shit about platforms. Say it with me now one more time. Luxury buyers don't give a shit about platforms. Need proof.... again we have been over this ad nauseum. The Toyota Avalon XXXLE... sorry, Lexus ES, is only outsold by the 3 series and C class in the luxury sedan segment. That's right, it handily outsells the ATS AND CTS COMBINED. MKZ outsells the ATS/CTS as well (not combined though).

You look at cars through the lens of magazine reviews and other meaningless bullshit. The reality is a car's success is measured by how many people buy it, and how profitable it is. By that measure, Toyota has the clear segment winners with the ES & RX... minimum effort, maximum profit and sales. And the ES and RX are damn good cars too. The average buyer gains nothing from the "Ring tuned" RWD platforms used in the competition.

Plus claiming this thing is a warmed over Ford Fusion is like saying a Bentley Continental is a warmed over Passat. Look everyone knows I enjoy my fair share of hyperbole but the reason a lot of it gets people tight is because it's at least somewhat rooted in reality. Ford took the 100% correct approach with this by not inventing a brand new limited use platform for a low volume car. Nobody who buys this will know. Again Cadillac tried your method and GM will be paying the price for years to come. All that is wrong with this thing is the less than exciting styling. But the ES is a top seller so who knows?

[Eye of the Tiger]

So, it's Continental, then?
https://youtu.be/st21dIMaGMs

[CaminoRacer]

So Cadillac is garbage but we've unanimously decided this Lincoln is a goddamn Bentley? this board sometimes...

[Cookie Monster]

So Cadillac is garbage but we've unanimously decided this Lincoln is a goddamn Bentley? this board sometimes...

Show me one post that says anything like that.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Show me one post that says anything like that.

Cadillac is garbage, but I have unanimously decided this new Continental is like a Bentley.

[Cookie Monster]

Aw crap.

[12,000 RPM]

So Cadillac is garbage but we've unanimously decided this Lincoln is a goddamn Bentley? this board sometimes...

Come on man.