Are there more offerings in the 40-50K range than the 20-40K range?

[12,000 RPM]

New Continental has me thinking........ how many 40-50K cars are there? Could there possibly be more variety in that range than the mainstream range? Seems like every mainstream brand besides Mazda and Mistubishi have luxury spinoffs and/or big pickup trucks and SUVs. I don't know if that means anything but I just think it's a little weird.

[SVT666]

I don't know how people afford the payments on cars in that price range.  I know lots of people in my town who own vehicles (entry lux or pickups or SUVs) that are in that $40-$55K range and I know for a fact my wife and I make much much more money and there is no way I would put out $1000 a month for a vehicle.

[Laconian]

I don't think this is true. The unmemorable nature of many 20-40k cars make them stand out less in your mind.

Pick any credible mainstream manufacturer at random and let's go over the lineup. Prices are fudged but just used for the purposes of relative ordering.

Cheap sedan - $12k
Cheap hatchback variant - $13k
Compact - $14k
Conventional CUV compact variant - $16k
Weird/funky CUV compact variant - $17k
SUV-like CUV - $19k
Midsize sedan - $21k
Coupe midsize variant - $23k
Wagon midsize variant - $25k
SUV midsize variant - $29k
Full-size oldpeople sedan - $27k
Minivan - $28k
Midsize pickup truck - $22k
Quasi-lux sedan - $33k
Sporty car - $25k

Multiply this by every single marque on the market. Am I forgetting anything?

[CaminoRacer]

I don't know how people afford the payments on cars in that price range.  I know lots of people in my town who own vehicles (entry lux or pickups or SUVs) that are in that $40-$55K range and I know for a fact my wife and I make much much more money and there is no way I would put out $1000 a month for a vehicle.

My neighbors bought a Roush Stage 2 Mustang back in August, yet the wife always complains about having to work and wishes she could stay at home like my mom.

[Payman]

Leases and 96 month financing. I don't understand it either, especially $60,000 + pick-up trucks. The absolute most I could personally justify on a new car is $10,000 down and $500/mo for 60 months. That's $40,000 including taxes fees and financing, so about a $32,000 car.

[SVT666]

Leases and 96 month financing. I don't understand it either, especially $60,000 + pick-up trucks. The absolute most I could personally justify on a new car is $10,000 down and $500/mo for 60 months. That's $40,000 including taxes fees and financing, so about a $32,000 car.

Yeah, you know what I find really funny?  I had a guy driving a brand new F-150 Lariat say to me, "Oh, you must be doing well?!?!" when he saw my Infiniti G37.  I said to him, "What did your F-150 cost? $50-$55K?  My Infiniti was $26K used." 

[Laconian]

Yeah, you know what I find really funny?  I had a guy driving a brand new F-150 Lariat say to me, "Oh, you must be doing well?!?!" when he saw my Infiniti G37.  I said to him, "What did your F-150 cost? $50-$55K?  My Infiniti was $26K used." 

People say that about my G37 vert. The joy of buying used.

[Payman]

Yeah, you know what I find really funny?  I had a guy driving a brand new F-150 Lariat say to me, "Oh, you must be doing well?!?!" when he saw my Infiniti G37.  I said to him, "What did your F-150 cost? $50-$55K?  My Infiniti was $26K used." 

My uncle Clyde was ragging on my brother when he bought his Viper... typical "ooh you must be rich" bullshit. Bro had it imported from the US when the dollar was at par... it was an '08 which he bought in 2010 for $58,000. Uncle Clyde bought a $70,000 Ford truck last year.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't think this is true. The unmemorable nature of many 20-40k cars make them stand out less in your mind.

Pick any credible mainstream manufacturer at random and let's go over the lineup. Prices are fudged but just used for the purposes of relative ordering.

Cheap sedan - $12k
Cheap hatchback variant - $13k
Compact - $14k
Conventional CUV compact variant - $16k
Weird/funky CUV compact variant - $17k
SUV-like CUV - $19k
Midsize sedan - $21k
Coupe midsize variant - $23k
Wagon midsize variant - $25k
SUV midsize variant - $29k
Full-size oldpeople sedan - $27k
Minivan - $28k
Midsize pickup truck - $22k
Quasi-lux sedan - $33k
Sporty car - $25k

Multiply this by every single marque on the market. Am I forgetting anything?

Most brands don't have all these variants though. And IMO if they are under the same model name they don't count as separate entities. I.e. a Golf hatch and wagon are just 1 model.

You look at Toyota/Scion from bottom to top vs Lexus.... Yaris/iA, Corolla/iM, Camry, RAV4, FR-S, Sienna, Tacoma, Tundra, Prius c, v and regular. Avalon, Highlander, 4 Runner are borderline. Hell, even the Tundra is borderline.... u can build a 50K one without much effort. 40K up you basically have all the Lexuses (NX, IS, RX, ES, GS, LS, LX), Mirai, Sequoia and the Land Cruiser. Entities with weak luxury brands might skew the average down some but those are countered by luxury only brands (Mercedes, Jaguar etc).

[veeman]

A lot of the luxury cars on the road are certified or used.  Just looking at year to year model sales indicates that mainstreamers far outsell entry lux or luxury.  Best selling luxury car, BMW 3 series, doesn't even crack the top 50 best selling models in the U.S. 

F-150 and other half ton pick up sales are hard to decipher in terms of how many of those sales are actually the Crew Cab luxury versions versus how many are work trucks. 

[SVT666]

A lot of the luxury cars on the road are certified or used.  Just looking at year to year model sales indicates that mainstreamers far outsell entry lux or luxury.  Best selling luxury car, BMW 3 series, doesn't even crack the top 50 best selling models in the U.S. 

F-150 and other half ton pick up sales are hard to decipher in terms of how many of those sales are actually the Crew Cab luxury versions versus how many are work trucks.

If the inventory on my local Ford dealer's lot is any indication, most F-150's are crew cabs and in the $48-$52,000 CAD range.

[Payman]

If the inventory on my local Ford dealer's lot is any indication, most F-150's are crew cabs and in the $48-$52,000 CAD range.

Same, with a few substantially higher than that.

[BimmerM3]

If the inventory on my local Ford dealer's lot is any indication, most F-150's are crew cabs and in the $48-$52,000 CAD range.

But work trucks probably don't just sit around dealer lots.

[BimmerM3]

A lot of the luxury cars on the road are certified or used.  Just looking at year to year model sales indicates that mainstreamers far outsell entry lux or luxury.  Best selling luxury car, BMW 3 series, doesn't even crack the top 50 best selling models in the U.S. 

F-150 and other half ton pick up sales are hard to decipher in terms of how many of those sales are actually the Crew Cab luxury versions versus how many are work trucks. 

I think he was talking about distinct models when he said "offerings", not volume.

[SVT666]

But work trucks probably don't just sit around dealer lots.

I called a Ram dealer to inquire about a 1500 for my new business and I want a basic crew cab 4x4 with towing package and RamBox. Those are the only options I want, and they told me it would need to be a special order because most trucks that come in have many more options.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Leases and 96 month financing. I don't understand it either, especially $60,000 + pick-up trucks. The absolute most I could personally justify on a new car is $10,000 down and $500/mo for 60 months. That's $40,000 including taxes fees and financing, so about a $32,000 car.

Same here! I have a self imposed 30K limit.

[veeman]

I think he was talking about distinct models when he said "offerings", not volume.

Good point.  All of the BMW variants; GT, coupe, convertible, etc. allow extra charging making the company more profit.  When a mainstreamer tries that it doesn't work because cost is a big or the biggest factor for the buyer.

Toyota makes a lot more per Lexus they sell vs per Corolla or Camry.  They may barely get a profit on a base Corolla so to make different economy models makes less sense than to make different luxury models where buyers have more money to spend/waste on differentiation. 

[SVT666]

New truck pricing in Canada:

I tried to price these trucks as similar as possible:  4 doors, V8, 4x4, 6.5' box, cloth interior, midrange stereo, & towing package.  Prices include Freight and are BEFORE discounts and taxes:

Chevy Silverado 1500: $45,470

Ford F-150: $47,874

Ram 1500: $48,415

Toyota Tundra: $44,495 (surprised me too)

[MrH]

I'd go with the Toyota for sure.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

New truck pricing in Canada:

I tried to price these trucks as similar as possible:  4 doors, V8, 4x4, 6.5' box, cloth interior, midrange stereo, & towing package.  Prices include Freight and are BEFORE discounts and taxes:

Chevy Silverado 1500: $45,470

Ford F-150: $47,874

Ram 1500: $48,415

Toyota Tundra: $44,495 (surprised me too)

I know these are suppose to be work horses but damn near 50 large (And they're not Heavy Duty) and you won't have leather or top stereo options! I don't know what's worse? Pick Up Prices or Porsche Option prices!

[Lebowski]

I have always felt the # of luxury cars on the road seems disproportionate to the % of incomes that imo equate to being able to afford them.  I guess it's leasing + long term financing and the idea of being stuck in a perpetual car payment.

[12,000 RPM]

Rate hikes will shake out the fakers. Automakers must be shitting bricks looking ahead. China is crumbling and zero base rates in the US are coming to a close.  Got to get the getting while it's good. It's gonna be like 2009 again.

[veeman]

I recently visited my brother in law in Miami.  He lives in a good neighborhood north of the city.  But man the cars lining the streets and in the driveways were straight out of Beverly Hills.  Lots of high end luxury makes.  He said the culture here was for people to get used high end cars and park them on the lawn

[MrH]

I have always felt the # of luxury cars on the road seems disproportionate to the % of incomes that imo equate to being able to afford them.  I guess it's leasing + long term financing and the idea of being stuck in a perpetual car payment.

+1

There's a house in my neighborhood here. Brand new Mercedes C class and brand new Mercedes ML out front. You're talking $110k in cars probably. That's not far off from what some of the houses cost in the neighborhood here.

[12,000 RPM]

Ohio real estate is dirt cheap mayne. If I lived there I would drive a Porsche

[SVT666]

If the inventory on my local Ford dealer's lot is any indication, most F-150's are crew cabs and in the $48-$52,000 CAD range.

I drove into the local Ford dealer's lot tonight after they had closed for the day and the cheapest F-150 crew cab was $53,000 and the most expensive one was $71,000 with most coming in right around +/- $60,000.

[AutobahnSHO]

Rate hikes will shake out the fakers. Automakers must be shitting bricks looking ahead. China is crumbling and zero base rates in the US are coming to a close.  Got to get the getting while it's good. It's gonna be like 2009 again.

Which screws up my used car buying!!!