Chrysler to discontinue Dart, 200 to make more room for SUV and truck production

[12,000 RPM]

If u ask 10 people on the street if their car is FWD or RWD 6-7 probably couldn't tell you or would guess wrong. RWD is not a distinguishing feature

I thought maybe good looks would be enough... the 200 is the best looking car in class by a landslide, and it's still bombing. So I have no fucking clue anymore. Everything midsize or smaller related to Chrysler is just fucking cursed. They haven't had a solid lineup top to bottom since maybe the 60s? And when gas prices go back up they are going to get curbstomped. I just can't see a way out for them. I see why Marchionne is in a wide eyed panic.

[2o6]

If u ask 10 people on the street if their car is FWD or RWD 6-7 probably couldn't tell you or would guess wrong. RWD is not a distinguishing feature

I thought maybe good looks would be enough... the 200 is the best looking car in class by a landslide, and it's still bombing. So I have no fucking clue anymore. Everything midsize or smaller related to Chrysler is just fucking cursed. They haven't had a solid lineup top to bottom since maybe the 60s? And when gas prices go back up they are going to get curbstomped. I just can't see a way out for them. I see why Marchionne is in a wide eyed panic.

It isn't bombing though! It's just not as profitable as a truck....



And Chrysler had a solid lineup in, maybe 1997. The cars were kinda not reliable, but they were a hell of a lot more desirable when Bob Lutz was running shit.

[Madman]

If u ask 10 people on the street if their car is FWD or RWD 6-7 probably couldn't tell you or would guess wrong. RWD is not a distinguishing feature

Like I said, I'm just spitballing ideas here.  But what else could they do?

Retro styling is out, for obvious reasons.  The whole retro thing has been done to death and the last thing Chrysler needs is a painful reminder of the PT Cruiser.

If nothing else, RWD would make it easier to do a Hellcat version of the next 200, which goes back to my idea of using a de-contented Alfa Romeo Gulia platform as a starting point.  The halo-effect could give lesser 200s the image-boost it so desperately needs.

This whole RWD platform thing also opens the door for my other idea, a jacked-up AWD Eagle (nee Subaru) version of the car.  An AWD Chrysler 200 wagon being sold as a Chrysler Eagle isn't the craziest idea in the world, so long as you leave the vinyl woodwork on the sides back in the 1980s where it belongs!  There's also potential there for a marketing tie-in with Jeep, which is still very successful.

Okay, so that fixes the D Segment, but what about the C Segment?  Ah, now that one is trickier.  RWD really wouldn't work there, so the next logical step is to partner-up with another manufacturer with whom to co-develop a car.  The Mitsubishi Lancer is as old as the hills, so it might make sense for Fiat, Chrysler and Mitsubishi to produce a C Segment car together.  There's also Fiat's partnership with Mazda.  Maybe a Chrysler-badged Dart replacement sharing a platform with the next Mazda 3?  Who knows?  There are a few different ways Chrysler could address this.

[2o6]

With Toyota and Mazda being together, I don't anticipate FCA being allowed in that bedroom.



Mitsubishi seems to be abandoning that market entirely.



The only viable people honestly look like PSA - PSA is struggling to make it work in Europe, but they still have a strong Chinese and Latin American presence. They also somehow scraped enough development $$$ to make a brand new, modular (like VW's MQB) platform that underpins segments B-D.

[Cookie Monster]

Seems to make sense to me, though I don't necessarily think it's a good idea - cut the shitty products out that Chrysler has time and again proven they can't be successful in (there was that whole thing about dealers buying and then selling 200's just to meet sales goals), while allocating resources to their stronger divisions. There is a ton of equity in their trucks and the Jeep brand is still huge.

In the short run, this is at least a good way of staying profitable without having to dump a ton of money building additional factories to satisfy demand, while in the long run, it positions Chrysler as a good bolt-on to another company that is relatively weak in the truck/SUV segment (I'm looking at you, Honda).

I still think they're stupid for getting rid of the Grand Caravan name, reviving the Pacifica name and calling all their trucks RAM (jesus it still sounds so stupid). I would have left the Ram trucks and Sprinter in the Dodge lineup so it's not just a shell of a company with two powerful cruisers and a dying sports car.

[ifcar]

Seems to make sense to me, though I don't necessarily think it's a good idea - cut the shitty products out that Chrysler has time and again proven they can't be successful in (there was that whole thing about dealers buying and then selling 200's just to meet sales goals), while allocating resources to their stronger divisions. There is a ton of equity in their trucks and the Jeep brand is still huge.

In the short run, this is at least a good way of staying profitable without having to dump a ton of money building additional factories to satisfy demand, while in the long run, it positions Chrysler as a good bolt-on to another company that is relatively weak in the truck/SUV segment (I'm looking at you, Honda).

I still think they're stupid for getting rid of the Grand Caravan name, reviving the Pacifica name and calling all their trucks RAM (jesus it still sounds so stupid). I would have left the Ram trucks and Sprinter in the Dodge lineup so it's not just a shell of a company with two powerful cruisers and a dying sports car.

Minor correction: Mercedes kept the Sprinter for itself when it ditched Chrysler.

[Cookie Monster]

Minor correction: Mercedes kept the Sprinter for itself when it ditched Chrysler.

Ah, my mistake. I was confusing those for those Fiat ProMaster things (another stupid name)...

[CaminoRacer]

Seriously I don't know why the idea of splitting brands to create new brands has been an acceptable idea the past few years. Too many brands hurt GM big time. Trying to manage all of that and keep identities unique is a nightmare. Dodge and Chrysler is all they need. Dodge is sporty and trucks, Chrysler is more luxious and soft (Buick/Cadillac competitor). Jeep is Jeep. Everything doesn't need to be its own brand.

[SVT666]

Chrysler should be two distinct brands. Chrysler should be a Buick competitor and Dodge should be trucks, SUVs, and performance cars.

[ifcar]

Chrysler should be two distinct brands. Chrysler should be a Buick competitor and Dodge should be trucks, SUVs, and performance cars.

No mainstream cars?

[Soup DeVille]

No mainstream cars?

Plymouth.

[SVT666]

No mainstream cars?

Under Dodge. But they would be sporty like Mazda has done.

[Galaxy]

The only viable people honestly look like PSA - PSA is struggling to make it work in Europe, but they still have a strong Chinese and Latin American presence. They also somehow scraped enough development $$$ to make a brand new, modular (like VW's MQB) platform that underpins segments B-D.

The Fiat part of Chrysler completely overlaps with PSA though.

[12,000 RPM]

Like I said, I'm just spitballing ideas here.  But what else could they do?

Retro styling is out, for obvious reasons.  The whole retro thing has been done to death and the last thing Chrysler needs is a painful reminder of the PT Cruiser.

If nothing else, RWD would make it easier to do a Hellcat version of the next 200, which goes back to my idea of using a de-contented Alfa Romeo Gulia platform as a starting point.  The halo-effect could give lesser 200s the image-boost it so desperately needs.

This whole RWD platform thing also opens the door for my other idea, a jacked-up AWD Eagle (nee Subaru) version of the car.  An AWD Chrysler 200 wagon being sold as a Chrysler Eagle isn't the craziest idea in the world, so long as you leave the vinyl woodwork on the sides back in the 1980s where it belongs!  There's also potential there for a marketing tie-in with Jeep, which is still very successful.

Okay, so that fixes the D Segment, but what about the C Segment?  Ah, now that one is trickier.  RWD really wouldn't work there, so the next logical step is to partner-up with another manufacturer with whom to co-develop a car.  The Mitsubishi Lancer is as old as the hills, so it might make sense for Fiat, Chrysler and Mitsubishi to produce a C Segment car together.  There's also Fiat's partnership with Mazda.  Maybe a Chrysler-badged Dart replacement sharing a platform with the next Mazda 3?  Who knows?  There are a few different ways Chrysler could address this.

Halo cars... 200 Hellcats.... you are not thinking from a business mindset. Those along with a RWD 200, which would be cramped, heavy and expensive next to its competition, are no bueno.

People are still hyped about Teslas and EVs in general, even with low gas prices. A more telling indicator: all of the Germans are working aggressively to add PHEVs to their lineup. Germans are always ahead of the curve and on the ball with regards to what consumers want, even when it doesn't make sense (iDrive, CLS, X6, 3/5 GT) and when it does (quattro, 3 series, M3, going softer and roomier)... no RWD necessary. They should be doubling down on hybrid and PHEV tech because gas WILL go back up and when it does they will be caught with their pants down.

There is already a Chrysler 200 wagon... it's called the Cherokee For reaching across to other companies.... I see 2 hurdles. 1 being, if the partnership goes sour they are stuck sharing a platform through the generation and then having to go back to the drawing board for the new one (potentially). Other is a lil more harsh but a lil more true..... FCA kinda stinks thanks to Sergio and from an image or shareholder perspective having a small car with an FCA badge seems to be a death warrant. OK, nobody would know a Mazda was actually an FCA car, but it seems like every company Chrysler hires to make its small cars dies (Mitsubishi, Fiat).

If nothing else this move is interesting but I am feeling like this is a canary in the coal mine moment. FCA is swimming out into the tsunami while everyone is getting as far from the coast as possible, and FCA can't figure out why nobody wants to swim with them

[ifcar]

Under Dodge. But they would be sporty like Mazda has done.

But FCA hasn't shown any ability to excel at this limited niche.

[12,000 RPM]

And Mazda is barely keeping its head above water.... there is not a lot of room in its niche. VW was in it and like doubled its volume going more mainstream

[MX793]

And Mazda is barely keeping its head above water.... there is not a lot of room in its niche. VW was in it and like doubled its volume going more mainstream

Mazda's doing the best it's done in a very long time.  2014 was Mazda's best sales year in North America since 1994.  2012 and 2013 were likewise best sales years in over a decade.  If that's "barely keeping its head above water", then it must have been a bloated carcass circa 2000.  Mazda simply doesn't have the dealer network, or production capacity, to play with the likes of Nissan, Honda, and Toyota in volume.  Selling fewer cars because you're a much smaller company doesn't mean you're struggling or just scraping by.

VW's volume went up when they made their cars cheaper.  If my MkV Jetta is any indication, they made their cars boring/unsporty long before their volume rose.  That car has many positive traits, but being sporty or fun to drive is not one of them.  Give a mid-2000s Stratus/Sebring heavier steering and you've pretty much described the driving experience.

[2o6]

The Fiat part of Chrysler completely overlaps with PSA though.

Using old platforms, though.

[veeman]

I think it's a good idea to get rid of Dart and 200.  For the last 20 years (when they stopped using the K car platform) they haven't been able to make a competitive small or midsize sedan in terms of profit and I see no way they will be able to in the near or long term future.  Why throw good money after bad.  They're too many competitors with awesome product and Chrysler has no brand equity whatsoever in the small car or midsize segment.  They probably spent a ton of money on making the all new 200 and they still can't make any profit on it.  Not even Eminem hawking it can get it to be profitable (imported, from Detroit, LOL).  I think its because in the small car and mid size segment, it's mostly about economic value which has a lot to do with reliability and resale.  At a ten thousand dollar higher price point (low 30 thousand dollars), people are buying more on emotion and that's where Chrysler/Dodge has good brand equity and can make money (300, Charger, Challenger).

The second generation Chrysler LHS and the Chrysler 300M were good cars which were stylin and profitable.  They never competed with Camcords though.  They were a higher price point.   

GM and Ford also completely left the minivan segment because they realized they didn't have any brand equity in that segment and it would be almost impossible to get soccer moms to leave their Odysseys and Siennas and the value conscious their Caravans. 

Good decision.  Still might not save the company.  Chrysler came within a hair's width of going bankrupt during the recession.  Obama almost didn't bail them out because the administration didn't think they had good product. 

[2o6]

Did everyone forget about the Stratus and Neon? IIRC those two sold in respectable numbers.


And the LX platform is getting old.

[CaminoRacer]

Hellcat Pacifica will save them

[Eye of the Tiger]

Hellcat Pacifica will save them

Only if it comes with a Scat Pack.

[12,000 RPM]

Hopefully it will come with a Stow N Go™ roll cage.

[MX793]

Only if it comes with a Scat Pack.

The Scat Pack is the one with the built in Diaper Genie and changing table, right?

[Eye of the Tiger]

The Scat Pack is the one with the built in Diaper Genie and changing table, right?

I think it's just a roll of paper towels and a bottle of Febreeze.

[SVT666]

And Mazda is barely keeping its head above water....

Uhhh.  Wrong.

[Laconian]

Yeah wtf

[WookieOnRitalin]

What a mess.

I've never been a fan of FCA vehicles other than Jeeps. It seems like its the only brand they got right and it was an AMC brand.

FCA has just not done anything to separate itself from Ford/GM. No one looking at an import is going to put an FCA passenger car on their shopping list. The Koreans carved out the lower end of the market and make better cars. The Japanese have better reliability, value, and loyalty. So then it boils down to whether or not FCA could compete with the passenger cars of Ford and GM.

And they can't.

It's just sad from an automotive enthusiast standpoint. But to the regular person? They probably won't even notice.

[SVT666]

Chrysler should be two distinct brands. Chrysler should be a Buick competitor and Dodge should be trucks, SUVs, and performance cars.

Oh, and Jeep.

[AutobahnSHO]

Hopefully it will come with a Stow N Go™ roll cage.

WANT

Would be awesome for daily driver/weekend tracks