Honda S2000

[FlatBlackCaddy]

He's just leaving it there because he realizes he made a mistake, or doesn't want to admit to owning a honda.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

So I wonder how this is going to pan out. Looks nice, but the lack of top is going to really hurt it. Might be a killer deal at around 10K.

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-honda-s2000-5/

[MrH]

It has a reserve on it?  That's what the comments say on the site, but I don't see where that's listed.

I think it's worth quite a bit more than $10k.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

It has a reserve on it?  That's what the comments say on the site, but I don't see where that's listed.

I think it's worth quite a bit more than $10k.

You would think that.....

Seriously though, it has no top and it has some light accident history on the car fax. The wing is questionable for some buyers and it's a AP1(a similar mileage, better condition stock car sold for 14 or so on the same site).

We'll see what it goes for.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Final bid was 10,100, reserve not met. Seller revealed the reserve to be 12K. Apparently he's dropping it off at a local dealer that offered to buy it.

Would have been a great deal for 10K.

[MrH]

Alright, now that I've been driving this quite a bit:

GOOD
- Engine.  This whole car is awesome because of this engine.
- Gearbox is nice too.  2nd gear can grind a little if you rush a redline shift from 1st.
- Steering.  It's electric, not a ton of feel, but silly fast rack which I like.
- Turn in is really quick
- Sound.  Engine makes good noises
- chassis is really solid. Not a ton of cowl shake.

BAD
- Rides like shit.  Way too little rebound damping.  Rear end feels like a pogo stick mid corner.  Hopefully coilovers will fix this once I get them on.
- It looks like a 16 year old car.  Paint and headlights are pretty beat up.  I got a quote for a professional detail and Opticoat finished.  Debating whether to pull the trigger or not.  4Runner + S2000 full detail and opticoat would be $1350.  Not bad IMO
- There are more rattles, squeaks, road noise, and wind noise than you can imagine.  It's not a comfortable car to daily at all.  I think I just need to sack up and put dynomat in the thing.
- Shift knob. It's metal and gets hot.
- not a lot of room here. It's tighter than the NC

Just need to decide if I want to dump a lot of cash into this or not.  Probably keeping this for at least a few years, so I'm leaning towards spending now so it's nice and pretty.

[Rich]

Buy the detailing stuff yourself. Once you have it you can keep using it. And save money.

I need to put the bilstein shocks back in the Miata to see if it helps. Mine is way to bouncy also.

Squeeks rattles noise blah blah blah... Pansy

[MrH]

I can, but I'm not a detailing pro. I can do a pretty good job if it's in good shape to begin with. The BRZ was clean enough to eat off of.

But this paint needs a lot of work. Opticoated cars are cake to take care of.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Opticoated?

never heard of it, probably some half ass polymer sealer with a fancy name.

Personally I'd find something with better marketing and trendier names, maybe something with "juice" in the name. those sound cooler. You might have to spend more but I"m sure you'll end up with the same product in the end.

Dragon skin w/ hyper juice.

[MrH]

This guy has really good reviews.  I think I'm going to go for it.

[Rich]

I'm not a pro and I cleaned up the Miata damn good. Everything but the front bumper at least. A pro can't even help that.

It takes a lot of time to get the dish soap wash, clay bar, polish, and sealant done. Once you've got it completed and sealant on it, its done for the year. At least for me. After that just regular washes and maybe a wax here and there.

The biggest project I have right now is stripping the clear coat on the 949 wheels and refinishing them, but yours look fine.

[mzziaz]

So, what are runners up for the next car?

ND, perhaps?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Sand and buff those lights, I found a picture of my old miata. The passenger side light was completely yellow and looked like crap. The driver side light was new(aftermarket). I spend about 1 hour on the passenger side and it turned out damn good.



Granted mazda probably uses a higher quality lens material than honduh.

[MX793]

I used some 3M Plastic polish on my Mazda's lights and they came out pretty nice.  Didn't last more than 9 months before they were all hazed over again, though.  Need to do the same with the Jetta, as I notice that car's lenses are getting a bit hazy.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

You need to (usually) sand a fair amount of the UV damaged plastic off. This is usually, IMO, why you get the rehazing.

I sanded the miata light with 400 grit, then 600, then 800 and then compounded it out before polishing it. While sanding it, you can see the dust change to a fine white powder when you get all the bad yellow crap off.

[MX793]

You need to (usually) sand a fair amount of the UV damaged plastic off. This is usually, IMO, why you get the rehazing.

I sanded the miata light with 400 grit, then 600, then 800 and then compounded it out before polishing it. While sanding it, you can see the dust change to a fine white powder when you get all the bad yellow crap off.

My understanding is that the re-haze is because the UV protective coating on the lens has degraded or worn away.  Sanding, or polishing, the surface just removes the layer of damaged material and exposes fresh, but also not UV resistant, plastic that will likewise just haze over again.  You can buy restoration kits that include, in addition to polish and polishing tools, a UV treatment to restore the UV resistance to the plastic.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I've heard the arguement both ways. I've seen consumer kits with and without a UV coating, I've talked to shop guys that with sand and reclear or some that will sand and just polish. I've talked to a guy who made a living by refinishing OEM lamps for a large automotive recycler, he just sanded(4,6,800) and then used compound and polish on them. The lights were sold as OEM refinished, usually to body shops doing insurance collision work, in both a shop(and insurance) environment that had warranty systems.

He never had an issue with the thousands of lights he did. I've never had any issue with any of the ones I did and the results were always great.

Coating or no, the underlying material will always be exposed to some degree of UV rays. And from a design standpoint, it's proximity on the vehicle and it's resulting exposure to UV rays will necessitate it to have some degree of UV stability.

The same guys that tell me that it will yellow in "weeks" are the same ones that say it's happened to them when they didn't clear them.

I've done them without that, and never saw it go back. Either they did something wrong or I'm just lucky.

[MX793]

I've heard the arguement both ways. I've seen consumer kits with and without a UV coating, I've talked to shop guys that with sand and reclear or some that will sand and just polish. I've talked to a guy who made a living by refinishing OEM lamps for a large automotive recycler, he just sanded(4,6,800) and then used compound and polish on them. The lights were sold as OEM refinished, usually to body shops doing insurance collision work, in both a shop(and insurance) environment that had warranty systems.

He never had an issue with the thousands of lights he did. I've never had any issue with any of the ones I did and the results were always great.

Coating or no, the underlying material will always be exposed to some degree of UV rays. And from a design standpoint, it's proximity on the vehicle and it's resulting exposure to UV rays will necessitate it to have some degree of UV stability.

The same guys that tell me that it will yellow in "weeks" are the same ones that say it's happened to them when they didn't clear them.

I've done them without that, and never saw it go back. Either they did something wrong or I'm just lucky.

If there is an outer layer of UV blocker, the material beneath the surface will be protected from UV exposure.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Automotive basecoat has uv resistance, even though the clearcoat operates as and bears the brunt of the uv exposure.

I guess that was my point. I'm guessing the underlying plastic material has "enough" uv protection just due to its intended exposure. Enough, as in in has some. How much? I don't know, enough to last some time(months, a few years?). Not enough to probably meet the intended life of the lamp from the factory (which is probably atleast 10 years) but certainly enough not to re yellow within weeks of refinishing.

Like I said, I'm sure the ones that reyellow didnt actually have all the damaged plastic removed, which is understandable since it takes a fair amount of sanding to remove it.

[Rich]

I had good luck keeping the yellow away by having the lights clearcoated after being treated. It worked well

[68_427]

Embrace the yellow.  Use the rest of the paint

[giant_mtb]

I can, but I'm not a detailing pro. I can do a pretty good job if it's in good shape to begin with. The BRZ was clean enough to eat off of.

But this paint needs a lot of work. Opticoated cars are cake to take care of.

You'd surprise yourself.  Opticoat?  $1300?  Damn, son.  I'd make both of your vehicles look brand spankin new inside and out for $800 less.  Enjoy your overpriced paint sealant.

[68_427]

You'd surprise yourself.  Opticoat?  $1300?  Damn, son.  I'd make both of your vehicles look brand spankin new inside and out for $800 less.  Enjoy your overpriced paint sealant.

But then how soon would he have to come back to you?  Part of the allure is that the finish becomes less high maintenance.  Sure you could make it looks just as good if not better, but for how long?  A week?  A month?

[giant_mtb]

But then how soon would he have to come back to you?  Part of the allure is that the finish becomes less high maintenance.  Sure you could make it looks just as good if not better, but for how long?  A week?  A month?

The allure of any polishing/waxing/sealing is that it becomes less maintenance.  How soon it has to go back is dependent on so many factors (miles driven, how/often it's washed, driven in winter, take it to camp often, etc etc) that it's really not an answerable question. I see cars every year that are still beading water while others look like they're back to square one or worse than the year before.  For a low miles second vehicle, I'd see it once a year and it would look the same every time.  Waxes are weaker, sealants are stronger, but there's only so much you can spend on a bottle of liquid glass before it's just name games and marketing. 

P.S. I'm sure they will look fantastic.  Get it done once and keep it up yourself thereafter. It's wonderfully satisfying. 

P.P.S. Keep in mind I'm used to YouPee prices which probably don't reflect price standards you're used to or expect, so they sometimes seem shocking to me.

[MrH]

$1350 would be for both vehicles to get full paint correction and opticoated, not just the S2000.

Yeah, the appeal is to get it to a maintainable state.  The BRZ I got fresh from the dealership with the stickers still on.  I did the first wash, polished to get any orange peel or swirls out, and kept it pretty much perfect.  I think the S2000 is outside my skill set to get it back to looking brand new.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Or, you could take that 1300 into consideration on a trade in for a new ND. Would solve the paint issue, and the headlight issue, and some of the other problems. Trade the S2K, take the 1500 you would have spent and finance a few bucks and bamn, new ND.

[MrH]

  No.  I'm in too far at this point.

$28,000
-$1300
= $26,700

S2000 = $16,000?

I'm not going to finance $10,700 to get an ND instead.  That's $400+ a month for 2 years.

[MrH]

Lol, if this dealership didn't have such terrible reviews and this was actually the price, I'd go buy it today:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=45342&listingType=used&listingTypes=used%2Ccertified&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&showcaseListingId=429719692&trim1=MIATA%7CClub&mmt=%5BMAZDA%5BMIATA%5BMIATA%257CClub%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=MIATA&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=100005810&startYear=2016&makeCode1=MAZDA&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=500&listingId=432804649&Log=0

[FlatBlackCaddy]

  No.  I'm in too far at this point.

$28,000
-$1300
= $26,700

S2000 = $16,000?

I'm not going to finance $10,700 to get an ND instead.  That's $400+ a month for 2 years.

Or 200 dollars a month for 4 years. That's like less than 7 dollars a day, people spend that on a coffee or a value meal at micky d's.

[SJ_GTI]

Lol, if this dealership didn't have such terrible reviews and this was actually the price, I'd go buy it today:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=45342&listingType=used&listingTypes=used%2Ccertified&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&showcaseListingId=429719692&trim1=MIATA%7CClub&mmt=%5BMAZDA%5BMIATA%5BMIATA%257CClub%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=MIATA&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=100005810&startYear=2016&makeCode1=MAZDA&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=500&listingId=432804649&Log=0

Interesting, seems like a good deal so I did a search in my area. Only found one used 2016 Miata for sale, from a private seller, and the asking price is 23,500 on a not option "sport" version...which I think works out to around ~2000 less than MSRP. I am pretty sure I could buy a brand new Miata for 2000 off MSRP. 

Guess I don't blame the guy for trying. Who knows maybe someone out there won't pay attention and will pay that asking price.