OK, now I am kind of panicking. Next 911 might not have manual option

[12,000 RPM]

http://jalopnik.com/next-porsche-911-might-might-not-come-with-a-manual-t-1771097480

A bridge too far mon

Meanwhile I'm pretty sure that both the Cayenne and Panamera will retain their manual options and naturally aspirated engines

What is going on at Porsche? I hate the hipster cliches but they seem to be.... losing their way. Then again when they were at peak Porsche (964-993 gen IMO) they were on the brink of bankruptcy

[68_427]

click bait

[cawimmer430]

Just buy a 1993 Geo Metro if you want a manual. 

[MrH]

Umm, panamera never had a manual option.

[cawimmer430]

Umm, panamera never had a manual option.

IIRC the V6 models came with a manual as standard. But the take rate was very low.

[12,000 RPM]

Umm, panamera never had a manual option.

They did man, Google it.

[AutobahnSHO]

I'm just guessing that the burnout rate of clutches is high, and most people are willing to just go a computer-shifter.

[SJ_GTI]

I think going DSG/DCT/PDK or whatever brand name they want to use on the Hi-Po models makes sense. But for the day to day sports car that are just for hobbyists/enthusiasts I think offering a manual transmissions has to continue, no?  I cannot see myself buying a car like a 911 (or some equivalent sports car) and not getting a manual transmission. I know it isn't max performance but it is simply more fun for some folks.

[MrH]

They did man, Google it.

Not in the US?  At least I didn't think it came here.  If it was offered, I think it was V6, RWD only.  And there are probably 5 in the country.  If that's the case, is that really any different than not offering it at all?

[Raza]

If true, it's all over. 

[BimmerM3]

I've already come to terms with the fact that the auto industry is changing in major ways. But then again, I believe that autonomous vehicles will out number conventional vehicles in my lifetime, which doesn't seem to be a commonly held viewpoint around here.

Either way, as long as it doesn't get wrecked, I already own my lifelong sports car. I was hoping to supplement it with other fun cars along the way, but there's no reason why those can't be cars that already exist today, or DCTs if I want a proper track car.

[CaminoRacer]

BYOSC

Build your own sports car. It's the way of the future. "Kit" cars and old school builds.

[Raza]

BYOSC

Build your own sports car. It's the way of the future. "Kit" cars and old school builds.

No way it'll be legal to drive that shit on the road once driving becomes an app on your phone.

[cawimmer430]

I imagine it must be annoying for performance purists to see the sports car market moving to automated transmissions while some lackluster and boring economy car can still be gotten with a manual. But even in that niche more and more customers are going for automated transmissions.

[12,000 RPM]

This idea that getting around will be a phone app any time soon is optimistic at best and ridiculous at worst IMO for reasons I've laid out ad nauseum. Just the logistics of a wholesale transformation doesn't make sense. What happens to the 300 million human driven vehicles on the road? Think this through guys

[12,000 RPM]

BYOSC

Build your own sports car. It's the way of the future. "Kit" cars and old school builds.

I am with this. Again if its legal to ride a fcuking motorcycle on the street it should be fine to drive a kit car as long as it passes emissions. I think the passage of such a law would be a much bigger threat to conventional sports cars than the manufactured irrational spectre of the wholesale autonomous switch.

[CaminoRacer]

I am with this. Again if its legal to ride a fcuking motorcycle on the street it should be fine to drive a kit car as long as it passes emissions. I think the passage of such a law would be a much bigger threat to conventional sports cars than the manufactured irrational spectre of the wholesale autonomous switch.

They passed that law that allows kit car builders to make up to 500 cars a year and get them registered IIRC. Shelby Cobras, Lotus 7s, etc. with high build quality are now even easier to get.

[Raza]

This idea that getting around will be a phone app any time soon is optimistic at best and ridiculous at worst IMO for reasons I've laid out ad nauseum. Just the logistics of a wholesale transformation doesn't make sense. What happens to the 300 million human driven vehicles on the road? Think this through guys

They'll be phased out just like phones without GPS chips. It'll become illegal to produce them, then illegal to sell them, then they'll do some C4C-like program to encourage people to get them off the roads. Then millennials can text their way to work.

[12,000 RPM]

They'll be phased out just like phones without GPS chips. It'll become illegal to produce them, then illegal to sell them, then they'll do some C4C-like program to encourage people to get them off the roads. Then millennials can text their way to work.

Phones without GPS chips are illegal to produce/sell?

And when do you see this happening?

What will happen to the 300 million cars on the road?

Where will the $9T come from?

Do you really think this mass property confiscation would come with no pushback?

For the love of everything rational please think these things through. You can't complain about faulty premises and continue on this panicked crusade.

[280Z Turbo]

I think manual driving will become illegal or severely restricted in about 30-40 years. It will be seen as an unnecessary risk to the public. Why should a bunch of old coots be allowed hoon around putting innocent children at risk in their environmentally damaging old cars?

[cawimmer430]

I think manual driving will become illegal or severely restricted in about 30-40 years. It will be seen as an unnecessary risk to the public. Why should a bunch of old coots be allowed hoon around putting innocent children at risk in their environmentally damaging old cars?

A manual transmission is also kind of annoying and dangerous when you're driving and want to update your Facebook status or take a selfie. 

[Raza]

Phones without GPS chips are illegal to produce/sell?

Yeah, for years now.  I remember a long time ago a cell phone company said that if they deactivated my mother's Motorola Timeport, they would, by law, not be allowed to reactivate it because it doesn't have GPS.

And when do you see this happening?

In the future.

What will happen to the 300 million cars on the road?

They will eventually fall into disrepair and be taken off the road through the natural course of things or be traded in as part of a Cash 4 Clunkers type program.  I couldn't have been more clear about that. 

Where will the $9T come from?

When did I say anything about $9 trillion?  I don't remember that.

Do you really think this mass property confiscation would come with no pushback?

I didn't say confiscation.  Not once.  You did. 

For the love of everything rational please think these things through. You can't complain about faulty premises and continue on this panicked crusade.

The only faulty premises are the ones you put in my mouth.  I didn't say half the shit you're asking me about. 

[MX793]

Yeah, for years now.  I remember a long time ago a cell phone company said that if they deactivated my mother's Motorola Timeport, they would, by law, not be allowed to reactivate it because it doesn't have GPS.

There is no current law requiring that cell phones be fitted with GPS.  There are regulations, related to the E911 system, that require telephone service providers (wired or wireless) be able to locate the geographic origin of a call within a certain accuracy.  For cell phones, that can be accomplished either via GPS or via triangulating the signal using the cell tower network.  Back in 2011, the FCC passed a rule stating that the accuracy of location for all phone types (including VoIP) will be tightened considerably starting in 2018.  Currently, tower triangulation is not accurate enough to meet this new accuracy requirement, so in all likelihood that will mean GPS in all cell phones unless somebody can find a way to get the required accuracy without using GPS.

[Raza]

There is no current law requiring that cell phones be fitted with GPS.  There are regulations, related to the E911 system, that require telephone service providers (wired or wireless) be able to locate the geographic origin of a call within a certain accuracy.  For cell phones, that can be accomplished either via GPS or via triangulating the signal using the cell tower network.  Back in 2011, the FCC passed a rule stating that the accuracy of location for all phone types (including VoIP) will be tightened considerably starting in 2018.  Currently, tower triangulation is not accurate enough to meet this new accuracy requirement, so in all likelihood that will mean GPS in all cell phones unless somebody can find a way to get the required accuracy without using GPS.

Different road, same destination. 

[MX793]

Different road, same destination. 

Point being, there's no requirement for it today (nor was there one several years ago).  Technically, there won't be a requirement for it when the tighter accuracy of location standards come into effect.  Also, I should probably amend my statement that network/tower accuracy can't meet the new requirement.  Current requirements for location are <50ft for GPS based systems and <100ft for network based solutions.  The requirement coming in 2018 (or maybe later, the articles I found from 5 years ago call that a "no sooner than" date) tightens the accuracy to <50ft for any solution.  I'm not a cell expert, but it's possible that current network solutions are already achieving that.

[Raza]

Point being, there's no requirement for it today (nor was there one several years ago).  Technically, there won't be a requirement for it when the tighter accuracy of location standards come into effect.  Also, I should probably amend my statement that network/tower accuracy can't meet the new requirement.  Current requirements for location are <50ft for GPS based systems and <100ft for network based solutions.  The requirement coming in 2018 (or maybe later, the articles I found from 5 years ago call that a "no sooner than" date) tightens the accuracy to <50ft for any solution.  I'm not a cell expert, but it's possible that current network solutions are already achieving that.

Regardless, a rule or law results in GPS essentially being mandatory for cell phones. 

[MX793]

Regardless, a rule or law results in GPS essentially being mandatory for cell phones. 

Not if network accuracy meets the tighter limits.  Then it's up to the service providers as to whether they require GPS on the phones on their network or not.

[Raza]

Not if network accuracy meets the tighter limits.  Then it's up to the service providers as to whether they require GPS on the phones on their network or not.

Currently.

[12,000 RPM]

In the future.

They will eventually fall into disrepair and be taken off the road through the natural course of things or be traded in as part of a Cash 4 Clunkers type program.  I couldn't have been more clear about that.

This doesn't make any sense

If these automated cars cannot operate on the roads with human driven cars, then all the human driven cars have to come off the road a lot faster than the "natural course of things" will allow. If autonomous cars can operate with human driven cars on the same roads then your whole fatalist conclusion falls apart. So which is it? 

When did I say anything about $9 trillion?  I don't remember that.

That is how much it will cost, based on average new car prices, to replace all the cars on the road. And that is conservative because a lot of the 300 million vehicles on the road are commercial vehicles.

I didn't say confiscation.  Not once.  You did.

You argue that human driven cars on the road will become illegal. OK, not exactly confiscation, but largely the same result since all human driven cars will largely become worthless under the passage of said law. 

The only faulty premises are the ones you put in my mouth.  I didn't say half the shit you're asking me about.

You still haven't demonstrated exactly how this will all play out. Where is the political will? Where is the money? Where is the precedent? Can you give us some kind of ball park timeline? You are just projecting your control issues onto this issue and hoping nobody asks for details. It's silly. Even if human driven cars are "outlawed", just by pure logistics it probably won't happen in our lifetimes.

[MrH]

It's too expensive to switch all cars at once. Autonomous cars have to be able to function with human driven vehicles, or they'll never make it. Everyone is designing based on that assumption so far.