C&D: Focus RS v Golf R v STI

[Char]

40k for a VW Rabbit? Are you out of your fucking mind?


Yeah, I'll take a real car for that money, not a tarted up FWD based piece of VW shit. I will say the VW does have a better interior than the rest, but I can't imagine what idiot would walk into a dealership and pay this much to have a "almost" car. It's ALMOST luxurious, ALMOST a performance car, Almost, almost, almost.

Combine that with the fact that I hate hatchbacks, I hate VW and I'm not a fool, it should be no surprise that I would buy a Mustang/228i/235i over any of these cars listed.

[12,000 RPM]

40k for a VW Rabbit? Are you out of your fucking mind?


Yeah, I'll take a real car for that money, not a tarted up FWD based piece of VW shit. I will say the VW does have a better interior than the rest, but I can't imagine what idiot would walk into a dealership and pay this much to have a "almost" car. It's ALMOST luxurious, ALMOST a performance car, Almost, almost, almost.

Combine that with the fact that I hate hatchbacks, I hate VW and I'm not a fool, it should be no surprise that I would buy a Mustang/228i/235i over any of these cars listed.

DO YOU SMELALALALALALAH

WHAT THE BANHAMMER

IS COOKING??????

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

In this segment, Golf R. However at this price point, I wouldn't be looking at this segment.

[AutobahnSHO]

40k for a VW Rabbit? Are you out of your fucking mind?


Yeah, I'll take a real car for that money, not a tarted up FWD based piece of VW shit. I will say the VW does have a better interior than the rest, but I can't imagine what idiot would walk into a dealership and pay this much to have a "almost" car. It's ALMOST luxurious, ALMOST a performance car, Almost, almost, almost.

Combine that with the fact that I hate hatchbacks, I hate VW and I'm not a fool, it should be no surprise that I would buy a Mustang/228i/235i over any of these cars listed.

Completely worthless post.

[AutobahnSHO]

So sad the Subie is just the same as years go on.

Those VWs are super sweet but that price is loco.

[68_427]

The Subaru being "old school" is actually part of the allure for lots of people.

[12,000 RPM]

"I like having no torque and only getting 20 MPG on the highway! Just like the good old days"

[68_427]

Some people like the feel of a higher boost threshold, some people like the way it sounds, some people like that it has Brembos front AND rear, some people prefer the mechanical feel of the drivetrain even if it might not give the same numbers at 10/10ths. 

[MrH]

That controllable center diff doe...

[12,000 RPM]

Some people like the feel of a higher boost threshold, some people like the way it sounds, some people like that it has Brembos front AND rear, some people prefer the mechanical feel of the drivetrain even if it might not give the same numbers at 10/10ths.

All this shit can be bought doe (except the drivetrain I guess?) for pennies and put into the best looking body (GC or hawkeye ) or the most practical one (hatch)

[68_427]

All this shit can be bought doe (except the drivetrain I guess?) for pennies and put into the best looking body (GC or hawkeye ) or the most practical one (hatch)

You could have put a fancy Bluetooth stereo and hid retrofit into a 20 year old civic, so why did you buy a 2009?

[Rich]

 

[12,000 RPM]

You could have put a fancy Bluetooth stereo and hid retrofit into a 20 year old civic, so why did you buy a 2009?

Why didn't you get an 1989 Subaru Loyale.... this is kind of a silly question lol. My Civic is used just like the STIs I'm suggesting, you'd have a point if I bought a new one.

Plus there is a lot my Civic has that '96s don't... about 30-40 HP, significantly better safety, significantly more interior room, completely different drivetrain, more refinement etc etc. STI is kind of like if Ford kept the old 4.6 in the Rustang GT.... my Civic is just a little runaround, the STI is a performance car. But its no faster than any of the versions before it.

[Cookie Monster]

Why didn't you get an 1989 Subaru Loyale.... this is kind of a silly question lol. My Civic is used just like the STIs I'm suggesting, you'd have a point if I bought a new one.

Plus there is a lot my Civic has that '96s don't... about 30-40 HP, significantly better safety, significantly more interior room, completely different drivetrain, more refinement etc etc. STI is kind of like if Ford kept the old 4.6 in the Rustang GT.... my Civic is just a little runaround, the STI is a performance car. But its no faster than any of the versions before it.

A new STI has "significantly better safety, significantly more interior room, completely different drivetrain, more refinement etc etc" than a 20 year old Impreza, too.

[MX793]

Suspension was also significantly improved vs the old blob eye and hawk eye models.  But that change happened a generation ago.  The latest generation offers little over its immediate predecessor other than ugly new sheet metal.

[Char]

They need the 2.0 Direct injection with a better turbo., but it seems so expensive for what it is currently.

[AutobahnSHO]

I know lots of kids buy WRXs because of the winter thing. But as much as I love me some Subie I would get die Deutscher

[12,000 RPM]

A new STI has "significantly better safety, significantly more interior room, completely different drivetrain, more refinement etc etc" than a 20 year old Impreza, too.

WRX/STI drivers don't care about any of those things. If they did they would have got Legacy GTs and Forester XTs.

[SJ_GTI]

I do not think the criticism on price is justified, personally. At ~40k these hot hatches (the Focus and Golf) seem like bargains for what you get.  The Golf R in particular seems like a bargain S3 with a better (re: more practical) body style.

[Raza]

I do not think the criticism on price is justified, personally. At ~40k these hot hatches (the Focus and Golf) seem like bargains for what you get.  The Golf R in particular seems like a bargain S3 with a better (re: more practical) body style.

Yeah, what can you get for $40K?  A well spec'd 320i?  A barebones 328i?

[68_427]

Suspension was also significantly improved vs the old blob eye and hawk eye models.  But that change happened a generation ago.  The latest generation offers little over its immediate predecessor other than ugly new sheet metal.

This generation was a larger gao dynamically than we've ever seen with the STi on out shores yet.

[12,000 RPM]

I do not think the criticism on price is justified, personally. At ~40k these hot hatches (the Focus and Golf) seem like bargains for what you get.  The Golf R in particular seems like a bargain S3 with a better (re: more practical) body style.

No swipes but I think it was pretty clear the comparisons were not based in logic. The people saying a Golf R is a ripoff think a $40K Fiat with 1/2 the HP and 2/5 the seats is reasonable purchase. It's a projection of (very) personal preferences as some kind of objective value assessment. Obviously performance cars aren't measured by the lb or hp but even still.

[Payman]

No swipes but I think it was pretty clear the comparisons were not based in logic. The people saying a Golf R is a ripoff think a $40K Fiat with 1/2 the HP and 2/5 the seats is reasonable purchase. It's a projection of (very) personal preferences as some kind of objective value assessment. Obviously performance cars aren't measured by the lb or hp but even still.

Lol who is that aimed at?

All I said is at this price point I'm looking elsewhere. Never said these hot hatches weren't worth the money. For me though, I'll save 6 or 8k and take a roadster sportscar.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Yeah, what can you get for $40K?  A well spec'd 320i?  A barebones 328i?

V8 Mustang or Camaro comes to mind. Plenty of high performance used cars (Z06/GS C6 Vette, Boxsters, etc.) are in that range also!

[Raza]

V8 Mustang or Camaro comes to mind. Plenty of high performance used cars (Z06/GS C6 Vette, Boxsters, etc.) are in that range also!

Used cars are ridiculous. Can't compare used to new. And the Camaro (yuck) and Mustang are hardly well rounded enough cars to be considered competitors.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Used cars are ridiculous. Can't compare used to new. And the Camaro (yuck) and Mustang are hardly well rounded enough cars to be considered competitors.

Rounded enough?? They're being compared to the best BMW has to offer! And they're BEATING them at half the price!

[12,000 RPM]

Rounded enough?? They're being compared to the best BMW has to offer! And they're BEATING them at half the price!

At the track, sure.... but in pretty much any street driving situation the Camaro is kind of questionable. You cant see out of the motherfucker. 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.... if u can aim it right

[AutobahnSHO]

At the track, sure.... but in pretty much any street driving situation the Camaro is kind of questionable. You cant see out of the motherfucker. 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.... if u can aim it right

I saw a camaro with ultra-low profile tires today. BIIIG rims, the tires were only like an inch from rim to ground, and were half flat......!

[Raza]

Rounded enough?? They're being compared to the best BMW has to offer! And they're BEATING them at half the price!

Yeah, so?

I just said they're not well rounded.  You said they're better performers.  Do you see the disconnect?

I've seen literally dozens of Camaros and Mustangs on the side of the road because of the lightest snowfalls.  Furthermore, as coupes, they're inherently less well rounded than sedans or hatchbacks.  No available AWD hurts too, especially in the Northeast.  Also, the fact that a person can't see out of or likely stand to look at a Camaro hurts it a lot.   

Things a Focus RS or Golf R can do that a Camaro or Mustang can't (out of the box): move a chest of drawers, drive in the snow, carry four people comfortably.  That's what I'm talking about. 

For a lot of people, a Camaro or Mustang is a likely second car.  A car like the STI, Golf R, or Focus RS are first cars that can perform very well.  That's the point of them. 

[GoCougs]

Yeah, so?

I just said they're not well rounded.  You said they're better performers.  Do you see the disconnect?

I've seen literally dozens of Camaros and Mustangs on the side of the road because of the lightest snowfalls.  Furthermore, as coupes, they're inherently less well rounded than sedans or hatchbacks.  No available AWD hurts too, especially in the Northeast.  Also, the fact that a person can't see out of or likely stand to look at a Camaro hurts it a lot.   

Things a Focus RS or Golf R can do that a Camaro or Mustang can't (out of the box): move a chest of drawers, drive in the snow, carry four people comfortably.  That's what I'm talking about. 

For a lot of people, a Camaro or Mustang is a likely second car.  A car like the STI, Golf R, or Focus RS are first cars that can perform very well.  That's the point of them. 

Then why do the Mustang and Camaro each outsell (let alone both together) all other performance cars at all price points put together?

Pony cars are not second cars - the vast majority of Americans cannot afford a $25k+ second/plaything car. Americans drive them as primary cars and get by just fine.

The STI, Golf R, Focus RS, etc., perform fine but can only just barely dream of seeing the taillights of an equivalently-priced Camaro SS or Mustang GT.