Definitely Getting a New Car - Timing/Model TBD

[CaminoRacer]

Again, I highly recommend that you folks drive a Golf R with a manual. I found it quite quite sluggish - not so much turbo lag it's as if the throttle mapping was way soft.

Seems like a lot of new smaller engined cars have very jumpy throttle mapping - it's like they make up for the smaller engine by giving you 50% throttle when you barely touch the pedal. So maybe the Golf just has normal mapping instead of "enhanced".

[SJ_GTI]

Again, I highly recommend that you folks drive a Golf R with a manual. I found it quite quite sluggish - not so much turbo lag it's as if the throttle mapping was way soft.

I hear you. I will test drive it before I buy it. I am glad to hear you were able to do it. Most folks on TCL were unable to get a test drive without agreeing to purchase it first. Gives me hope the hype has died down and dealers are being more reasonable. 

[12,000 RPM]

Again, I highly recommend that you folks drive a Golf R with a manual. I found it quite quite sluggish - not so much turbo lag it's as if the throttle mapping was way soft.

I think there are different throttle maps, which is stupid as hell, but necessary for emissions testing

[GoCougs]

I hear you. I will test drive it before I buy it. I am glad to hear you were able to do it. Most folks on TCL were unable to get a test drive without agreeing to purchase it first. Gives me hope the hype has died down and dealers are being more reasonable. 

The dealer gave me a bit of that to begin with - "it's an enthusiast's car and those buyers don't like seeing 30 or 40 miles on 'em because they know those were some hard test drive miles." And really, he's about right. The car I drove actually had like ~150 miles on it. The G felt like an exotic afterward in its response, plus in general Golf R acceleration suffers hugely with the M/T - loses half a second 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile, which is big. I'd love a manual too, if things were responsive.

[Raza]

Golf R automatic has launch control. Real world they'd be much closer.

[GoCougs]

True, there's an advantage, but dumping the clutch on an AWD car gets a pretty good launch too. Lots of cars that offer either DSG and manual are quite close if not equivalent in acceleration- 911, S4, GTI, Boxter/Cayman. A tenth or two, but that's about it. 5 tenths is huge.

[68_427]

I hear you. I will test drive it before I buy it. I am glad to hear you were able to do it. Most folks on TCL were unable to get a test drive without agreeing to purchase it first. Gives me hope the hype has died down and dealers are being more reasonable. 

They probably walked in with some huge side tunnel and creeped everyone out

[veeman]

A few times I've rented from Enterprise when the dealer doesn't provide a loaner.  They pick you up from the dealer.  Usually costs about 70 or so dollars once all the taxes and fees are included.

[SJ_GTI]

FWIW, spoke to the VW dealer nearest to me with a manual Golf R in stock (In Princeton, NJ) and they said they would let me test drive it. I am going to head up there this afternoon (about an hour and a half away) and take it for a spin. Will be interesting to see how it feels compared to the DSG. I have watched a bunch of reviews and comparisons with the Golf R and no one has ever really said what GoCougs said re: the manual, but I always wonder if the reviewers are being too kind just because they know they have to be in order to keep getting invites. 

[12,000 RPM]

MToD has a comparison between the Golf R and Focus RS... they mentioned the R had some lag

[GoCougs]

FWIW, spoke to the VW dealer nearest to me with a manual Golf R in stock (In Princeton, NJ) and they said they would let me test drive it. I am going to head up there this afternoon (about an hour and a half away) and take it for a spin. Will be interesting to see how it feels compared to the DSG. I have watched a bunch of reviews and comparisons with the Golf R and no one has ever really said what GoCougs said re: the manual, but I always wonder if the reviewers are being too kind just because they know they have to be in order to keep getting invites. 

Hmmm. I've seen a number of reviews and comments that prefer the DSG over the M/T and that otherwise note/complain about lag/delay with the M/T, plus there are lots of fanboy forum threads about the issue (just Google "Golf R throttle response"). DSG or a tune seem to mitigate the issue but no real good explanation exists AFAIK. It doesn't appear to be (entirely) turbo lag though - it's just something goofy with the throttle mapping for who knows why - reduce drive line shock? Emissions? MPG? I predict that like with my G your S4 will feel 10x sharper when you get back into it. The DCC setting also affects throttle response so make sure to play around with it (I didn't notice much difference - it does make a big difference in the artificial sound generator though). The Golf R is still a fantastic package overall however.

[Cookie Monster]

MToD has a comparison between the Golf R and Focus RS... they mentioned the R had some lag

Didn't they say the shifter needed some help too?

[GoCougs]

It's quite loose and a bit vague, but at least there is one .

[Cookie Monster]

I mean, I would still get the manual over the DSG every time, but that was just something I remembered the MT review saying.

[CALL_911]

Didn't they say the shifter needed some help too?

Yet another way in which the S2000 spoiled the GTI for me......

[12,000 RPM]

I mean, I would still get the manual over the DSG every time, but that was just something I remembered the MT review saying.

Yea they didn't like it. Said it was loose and wobbly like an economy car's shifter. Apparently cable shifted.

My old Accords had cable shifters though and they shifted awesome. Key was having fresh cable. I'm sure VW's cable is fine now... he can probably rectify any shifter feel issues with solid bushings.

[SJ_GTI]

Just got to the dealer (waiting for the salesperson). Was almost a two hour drive with traffic.   

[SJ_GTI]

So just finished test drive. I dig it. Will post more thoughts later

[Raza]

Get it!

[SJ_GTI]

Get it!

Hah, I seriously thought about it!

But I didn't want to buy something on a whim so I told them I'd think about it over the weekend and let them know.

As far as the car goes...

The throttle response felt fine to me. If gocougs didn't like the golf r I don't think he would like S3 TBH.

The shifter felt fine to me, admittedly I am coming from an older car but the throws were shorter and everthing felt more precise in the Golf R.

The clutch was super, super light. I never considered my S4 to have a particularly heavy clutch but relatively speaking the Golf was effortless. I don't consider this a good or bad thing necessarily, but it would take some getting used to for sure. I had to really concentrate to shift smoothly and even then I still goofed a couple of times.

All that being said...in my opinion this engine is better matched to the DSG. I don't know why it just seemed more  cohesive. I think maybe the inhumanly fast shifts are better at keeping the engine on boil maybe? Overall power delivery in the S3 felt smoother and more consistent. I am not a great expert on manual shifting though so maybe it is my own lack of skill.

So...other factors...I love how small and light the car itself is. Plenty of space inside of course but the small exterior just makes it so much more fun to drive than a bigger car. The infotainment system felt far more rudimentary than the S3, about like my S4. Graphics and speed aren't bad per se, but definitely a step below the S3. The front seats were a little more snug and not quite as comfortable as the S3. They reminded me of my GTI's seat. Not bad mind you, but definitely preferred the S3's seats. I liked the Golf R's gauge cluster better than the basic S3 cluster, but can't really hold a candle to the virtual gauge cluster of course. I was pleasantly surprised by how nice the exterior of the Golf R looked in person. In pictures and videos the exterior looks a bit boring and I didn't like the wheels but in person the car looks aggressive and the wheels are not bad at all. They'd still likely end up on winter duty but they looked good nonetheless. The one thing the Golf R has of course is that its a hatchback. I forgot how much I liked the practicality of this body style. As far as pricing they were pretty clear they wouldn't come off MSRP. However their offer on my S4 was the same as the Audi dealer where I drove the S3, which makes it about 2k better than the Chevy dealer or Carmax.

So where does that leave things? Overall I definitely think the S3 is the better package...except that it doesn't have a 6MT. And that's a big exception for me. The Golf R is pretty close in most respects and of course it does come with a 6MT, it is a hatchback, and it is cheaper.

Right now I feel like I am learning heavily toward buying the Golf R, but I am going to take the weekend to really think it over.

(Ps sorry for any/all the typos, I am typing this on my fire tablet which sucks for typing)

[GoCougs]

Perhaps your S4 is gunned out then. Or, maybe, the G37 really is that good. Or, maybe, it's a bit of both.

Golf R packaging is definitely better. The S3 looks sorta cheap too. I only wish the S3 Sportback were sold here (still doesn't look as good as the Golf R).

The 2017 S3 updates are fairly pronounced, and from the looks of it, the dealers aren't carrying on with supply and pricing funny business.

[SJ_GTI]

Its been a while since I have regularly driven a normally aspirated engine, maybe I am just used to turbo lag? I dunno. Unfortunately its not easy to drive a bunch of different cars back to back to back.

[Raza]

Its been a while since I have regularly driven a normally aspirated engine, maybe I am just used to turbo lag? I dunno. Unfortunately its not easy to drive a bunch of different cars back to back to back.

S4's supercharged, though.

[MexicoCityM3]

You have a VW crush. I get that. Go with the R it definitely sounds like you'll enjoy it.

[SJ_GTI]

So I am having some second thoughts regarding the R. Things that don't really make much of a difference in a test drive, but I think I might miss in a daily driver.

Sunroof: literally every car I've ever owned has had one (except the Z3). In the fall/spring I normally drive with it open and I even keep it popped open often in the winter. Apart from that its just nice to have the openness they provide. Note that in Europe they offer a panoramic sunroof so its not a mechanical problem, VW just chose not to offer it in the States. I mean I guess its not a huge (yuge) deal but definitely a knock against the R.
Center storage console: for some reason VW couldn't have a center storage in the US model, again even though they do have it in Europe. Apparently there is a way to retrofit the Euro center console, but it means extra effort/money and of course potential issue if it causes any ancillary problems so I doubt I'd bother. This isn't a big deal I guess, just an annoyance.
No spare tire: again even though the European model has on and the GTI has one the Golf R does not even offer it as an option. I guess they were trying to save weight but it seems like a dumb thing to do on a car whose main advantage over its competitors (Focus RS, STI) is that its a more practical/refined package. Some googling shows that you can buy the individual components from the S3 and put a spare tire package together, but it also requires cutting some plastic trim pieces to make space. If I do buy the R this is probably one thing I will try to do because I don't want to drive around without a spare.

You have a VW crush. I get that. Go with the R it definitely sounds like you'll enjoy it.

I really have no feelings one way or other toward the company and if anything there is extra trepidation because there are no local dealers.

[GoCougs]

Hmmm. The console and spare tire thing is a easy fix - I've looked into this - just look at the various fanboy forums. The only styling/feature thing that bothers me about the Golf R is no LED taillights (again, another plus for the S3).

[93JC]

Sunroof: literally every car I've ever owned has had one (except the Z3).

Your BMW didn't even come with a sunroof? What a piece of shit.

[SJ_GTI]

Hmmm. The console and spare tire thing is a easy fix - I've looked into this - just look at the various fanboy forums. The only styling/feature thing that bothers me about the Golf R is no LED taillights (again, another plus for the S3).

Meh, I did like the full LED headlights and taillights on the S3, but I doubt I'd miss them in day to day driving.

And yeah I know I can mod the R to "fix" its issues, but its not something I would relish. I mean technically you can even put on an aftermarket sunroof (not that I would even consider doing it).

And yeah the S3 seems lik the better overall package if you want the DSG. Much tougher call if you prefer a manual unfortunately.

[SJ_GTI]

Your BMW didn't even come with a sunroof? What a piece of shit.

[CALL_911]

I'd be more bummed about going from the S4s V6 to the 2.0T