My New Car

[12,000 RPM]

VW 4 bangers haul the mail, but man are they boring. I don't blame you.

How is the steering? I have a JEtta TSI rental now, and the wheel is heavy AF with zero feel. Precise though, the car is easy to place. But the steering feel sucks.

[SJ_GTI]

VW 4 bangers haul the mail, but man are they boring. I don't blame you.

How is the steering? I have a JEtta TSI rental now, and the wheel is heavy AF with zero feel. Precise though, the car is easy to place. But the steering feel sucks.

I think "precise but numb" is the most apt description for my car. That being said the S4 was also numb. When I test drove the BMW's I didn't get much steering feedback either (which was surprising since that used to be BMW's thing).

[MrH]

I just drove 4 hours in the SS this morning. Sitting the back now.

Ride and overall dynamics are really really good. I cruised through Ohio Indiana and into Illinois going 90 most of the way. Engine sounds great too.

It's not all that fast honestly. Hate the clutch feel. Not a big fan of the shifter either. There are a ton of GM touches throughout that bother me. The chrome interior trim is the worst. Keeps blinding me at certain times. Seats suck too. Built for fat old guys.

[SJ_GTI]

It's not all that fast honestly. Hate the clutch feel. Not a big fan of the shifter either. There are a ton of GM touches throughout that bother me. The chrome interior trim is the worst. Keeps blinding me at certain times. Seats suck too. Built for fat old guys.

Pretty sure posting this on TCL would get you bant.

Wish I could drive an SS for a weekend. Would like to know if the compromises from owning it would be preferable to the compromises of owning my Golf.

[68_427]

Also don't you have a car full of people and stuff?

[MrH]

Ha yeah. 4 in total plus luggage. But still, the power doesn't blow me away.

[68_427]

well it's a 12.8-13.0s car it is what it is.  plus it probably weighed 5000lbs

[giant_mtb]

4 people and luggage will make any car feel not fast and have a worse clutch feel. lol

[12,000 RPM]

I think "precise but numb" is the most apt description for my car. That being said the S4 was also numb. When I test drove the BMW's I didn't get much steering feedback either (which was surprising since that used to be BMW's thing).

IT's shocking how far BMW steering fell. F30 steering is on the level of current VWs IMO. SAD!

[Tave]

Why is it so surprising? Virtually all the pure-electric racks lack feel...

[Rich]

I'd like to feel a good rack

[AutobahnSHO]

4 people and luggage will make any car feel not fast and have a worse clutch feel. lol

Even a minivan feels sluggish with that much extra weight.

[12,000 RPM]

Why is it so surprising? Virtually all the pure-electric racks lack feel...

Eh, rack in the old Rabbit is ancient but electric. It's not the fastest, but it at least weights up in a normal way. What's most bizarre to me is how some two bit video game companies can build sim racing wheels that weight up perfectly while actual OEMs building actual cars can't. They have the technology..... they can rebuild it.

[MX793]

Eh, rack in the old Rabbit is ancient but electric. It's not the fastest, but it at least weights up in a normal way. What's most bizarre to me is how some two bit video game companies can build sim racing wheels that weight up perfectly while actual OEMs building actual cars can't. They have the technology..... they can rebuild it.

Rabbit must use a different rack from the Jetta.  Steering ratio is slow, yet it's unnaturally high effort and the effort doesn't really feel like it changes as you turn.  Basically like my last Mustang, but higher effort.

[giant_mtb]

Even a minivan feels sluggish with that much extra weight.

The only thing that doesn't feel slower with that much weight is a diesel truck or a 6.2L.

[SJ_GTI]

FWIW I am reading about the clutch spring removal for the Chevy SS (someone on TCL linked to an SS forum about it). From what I can tell that spring is a bit different than what was in my car. the spring in my car was only pulling in one direction (pulling the clutch pedal toward the firewall). The one in the SS seems to be double sided and both helps move the pedal toward the firewall but also pulls it back up to its resting position.

Might not be a big deal, but sounds like it isn't as simply as the VW and Mustang spring removals.

[MrH]

FWIW I am reading about the clutch spring removal for the Chevy SS (someone on TCL linked to an SS forum about it). From what I can tell that spring is a bit different than what was in my car. the spring in my car was only pulling in one direction (pulling the clutch pedal toward the firewall). The one in the SS seems to be double sided and both helps move the pedal toward the firewall but also pulls it back up to its resting position.

Might not be a big deal, but sounds like it isn't as simply as the VW and Mustang spring removals.

I'm glad that my clutch concerns have you looking this all up

[SJ_GTI]

I'm glad that my clutch concerns have you looking this all up

Oddly enough on my next car purchase clutch feel/performance will probably be a much higher priority. Removing the spring assist from my Golf helped but its still relatively poor IMHO. I noted the performance on the test drive but falsely assumed it was just unfamiliarity. Familiarity helped smooth things out a bit but relatively speaking I am nowhere near as comfortable with this clutch as I was with the Audi S4. I don't think I ever gave the clutch (or shifter) even a second thought on that car, everything just felt intuitive like it was second nature. Unfortunately that put the whole notion of having a "good" clutch completely out of my mind since I just assumed any clutch should be fine in the end.

[CaminoRacer]

I'm not sure how a double sided spring would work. I would think it's two separate springs. A return spring and a lame helper spring.

[MX793]

I think the spring in my old Mazda was effectively both a return spring and helper spring.  It wasn't a double-acting spring so much as the geometry of the pedal and where the spring mounted had an "over center" feature where between points A and B (the upper 2/3s of the stroke) it acted as a return spring and from point B to the firewall wall (lower 1/3 of the stroke) it acted as a helper.  When my master cylinder failed, if I pushed the pedal down past a certain point, it would snap into the firewall.  Otherwise, it would snap back out to its "normal" position.

[SJ_GTI]

FWIW this is a picture someone posted of the SS spring:



I'll take a picture of my spring when I get home but it is not like that.

[MX793]

FWIW this is a picture someone posted of the SS spring:



I'll take a picture of my spring when I get home but it is not like that.

I'm guessing yours, like the Mustang's, is an axial spring rather than a torsional.

[CaminoRacer]

I think the spring in my old Mazda was effectively both a return spring and helper spring.  It wasn't a double-acting spring so much as the geometry of the pedal and where the spring mounted had an "over center" feature where between points A and B (the upper 2/3s of the stroke) it acted as a return spring and from point B to the firewall wall (lower 1/3 of the stroke) it acted as a helper.  When my master cylinder failed, if I pushed the pedal down past a certain point, it would snap into the firewall.  Otherwise, it would snap back out to its "normal" position.

That could be it. My motorcycle has a similar setup on the center stand.

[MrH]

Oddly enough on my next car purchase clutch feel/performance will probably be a much higher priority. Removing the spring assist from my Golf helped but its still relatively poor IMHO. I noted the performance on the test drive but falsely assumed it was just unfamiliarity. Familiarity helped smooth things out a bit but relatively speaking I am nowhere near as comfortable with this clutch as I was with the Audi S4. I don't think I ever gave the clutch (or shifter) even a second thought on that car, everything just felt intuitive like it was second nature. Unfortunately that put the whole notion of having a "good" clutch completely out of my mind since I just assumed any clutch should be fine in the end.

Yeah, I've been spoiled.  NC Miata and S2000 have great clutches and shifters.  Everything feels like crap in comparison.

[SJ_GTI]

This is the spring from my Golf. One end hooked on to the clutch pedal, the other end hooked toward the firewall. There was a constant pull that made it easier to depress the clutch pedal.

[Tave]

Eh, rack in the old Rabbit is ancient but electric. It's not the fastest, but it at least weights up in a normal way. What's most bizarre to me is how some two bit video game companies can build sim racing wheels that weight up perfectly while actual OEMs building actual cars can't. They have the technology..... they can rebuild it.

Weight is not feel. Weight is the effort it takes to move the wheel. Feel is the transmission of road niggles and naggles and tire performance through the wheel, characterized by a slight back-and-forth "tug" as the car transverses imperfections.

VW's electric rack for the Golf/Jetta is very heavy but just as dead as most of the others.

[12,000 RPM]

Weight is not feel. Weight is the effort it takes to move the wheel. Feel is the transmission of road niggles and naggles and tire performance through the wheel, characterized by a slight back-and-forth "tug" as the car transverses imperfections.

VW's electric rack for the Golf/Jetta is very heavy but just as dead as most of the others.

Weighting with load is one aspect of steering feel. I think they changed the racks over time.... steering in the Rabbit feels very different from steering in new VWs. Nowhere near as feelsome as my Civic but much better than the new stuff.

[SJ_GTI]

New wheels (with summer tires) are on.



The wheels are a tad wider than stock (8.5 inch versus 8.0) and the offset is a little less (45 vs 50). I wasn't sure how it would look but it isn't really noticable I don't think.

Stock/winter:


New/summer:


Biggest visual difference I can see is the space between the brakes and the wheel. There is very little space between the stock wheels and the brakes but the new tires have a lot of space. Can't imagine it would make a difference in anything though.

A few more pics from different angles:













Took it for a quick drive and everything felt good. I didn't feel like going on the highway so only got it up to ~85 mph but everything felt good so I am thinking the wheels are good.

It was nice to be back on summer tires...the car feels just a bit sharper and stiffer. All things considered though I it was a reminder how nice the Pirelli sottozeroes are though...decent in the snow but I don't feel like it gives much up in normal (but cold) conditions.

[FoMoJo]

Wheels suit the car much better than the others.  Very stylish.

[CaminoRacer]