My New Car

[Submariner]

This is still sorta relevant to my interests. I'm coming up on ~6 years and ~130k miles in the G, and most new cars remain terrible.

The MY2018 R gets a 7 sp DSG, full LED lights F&R, virtual dash and new wheels. The latter two I'm not a fan of, plus, turbo engines do better with a (good) DSG or slushie.

I can get 350-450 miles/tank on the G (20 gallon tank), and it matters, as I hate with a passion going to the gas station, and I drive a lot.

The virtual dash is a hit or miss, really.  My mom just bought a Range Rover with one and honestly, it's barely more useful than a typical analogue layout with a small LCD screen in the middle.  Just having the ability to configure a speed and engine readout, a nav screen and radio info would be great, but it doesn't even allow for that.

[SJ_GTI]

With a small turbo engine, the more gears the better.  The 9 or 10 speed autos work just fine at keeping the revs low and just slightly dipping into the boost in most general driving conditions.  The best mileage I've gotten with the Discovery Sport (9 spd auto) on a highway trip is 37+ mpg.  It's a 2.0 EcoBoost.

FWIW, the issue isn't simply small engine with a turbo...its a small engine with a large turbo. The normal VW 2.0L turbo has a lot less lag than the R. The old MKV GTI I owned was much more responsive simply because it was a smaller turbo that spooled up a lot faster. In an expensive enough car there are other ways to handle the problem (twin turbo with one small and one large, turbo's with variable panes that can spool fast or slow depending on what the computer thinks is best, etc...), but for this application (at this [rice point) that isn't really feasible.

And as far as I know VW's turbo is one of the smoothest and most responsive on the market. Every review I've read that compared it to its competitors (WRX STI, Focus RS, Mitsu EVO, etc...) complimented the VW's responsiveness compared to its peers. My point of comparison, however, is with my last car (Supercharged 3.0L V6).

[12,000 RPM]

There's something screwy with modern turbo engines too. They seem a lot less efficient than they should be. Stock Golf R makes about 17psi peak boost. My Civic's 1.8 can make similar power with less boost, less displacement and I'm pretty sure a smaller turbo as well. For whatever reason new turbo engines don't breathe well at all and just rely on ungodly amounts of boost. The new Civic Si's 1.5L peaks at like 20psi or more, it's nuts.

[GoCougs]

With a small turbo engine, the more gears the better.  The 9 or 10 speed autos work just fine at keeping the revs low and just slightly dipping into the boost in most general driving conditions.  The best mileage I've gotten with the Discovery Sport (9 spd auto) on a highway trip is 37+ mpg.  It's a 2.0 EcoBoost.

IMO manual transmission adds to the perception of lag, particularly between shifts.

[CaminoRacer]

There's something screwy with modern turbo engines too. They seem a lot less efficient than they should be. Stock Golf R makes about 17psi peak boost. My Civic's 1.8 can make similar power with less boost, less displacement and I'm pretty sure a smaller turbo as well. For whatever reason new turbo engines don't breathe well at all and just rely on ungodly amounts of boost. The new Civic Si's 1.5L peaks at like 20psi or more, it's nuts.

[GoCougs]

Yep, doesn't make sense.

[MexicoCityM3]

There's something screwy with modern turbo engines too. They seem a lot less efficient than they should be. Stock Golf R makes about 17psi peak boost. My Civic's 1.8 can make similar power with less boost, less displacement and I'm pretty sure a smaller turbo as well. For whatever reason new turbo engines don't breathe well at all and just rely on ungodly amounts of boost. The new Civic Si's 1.5L peaks at like 20psi or more, it's nuts.

Your Civic's 1.8 can make similar power with no warranty.

[giant_mtb]

Anything that isn't what sporty drives is always somehow lacking.

[CaminoRacer]

Your Civic's 1.8 can make similar power with no warranty.

That was my first reaction as well. But the warrantied engine having 20 psi of boost is the opposite of what I'd expect.

[2o6]

The Sonic has about the same PSI.



The turbos in these economy-biased engines are usually tiny and designed to spool up quickly. My Sonic makes about 13-16 PSI depending on atmospheric conditions. The Civic, quick search, shows about the same PSI range, maybe 1-2PSI higher.


The Golf R is making 17PSI, but with a much larger turbo.



Also, the R18 has not much in the way in low-end torque. It'll also fall apart when boost is applied.

[MX793]

There's something screwy with modern turbo engines too. They seem a lot less efficient than they should be. Stock Golf R makes about 17psi peak boost. My Civic's 1.8 can make similar power with less boost, less displacement and I'm pretty sure a smaller turbo as well. For whatever reason new turbo engines don't breathe well at all and just rely on ungodly amounts of boost. The new Civic Si's 1.5L peaks at like 20psi or more, it's nuts.

It's because they all make big boost at low RPM, which is how they make peak torque down at 2000 RPM or lower and why the power curves sign off at 5K.

[AutobahnSHO]

Older turbos were for power and sport. Now it's about fuel economy.

[Raza]

I must say, the Golf R is really one of the few cars that interests me that's on the market. I'm bummed it's taking you so long to bond with it.

How is the pedal weight? I did a couple hours in the S4 yesterday, and I still can't stand how light the gas pedal is. My Jetta's was definitely heavier to the touch, and it can't compare with my Z4.

[SJ_GTI]

IMO manual transmission adds to the perception of lag, particularly between shifts.

I don't think its just perception though...A DSG can shift without any loss of boost and a torque converter probably can do the same.

For me its a "pick your poison" situation and I'd rather shift my own gears and lose some performance.

[SJ_GTI]

I must say, the Golf R is really one of the few cars that interests me that's on the market. I'm bummed it's taking you so long to bond with it.

How is the pedal weight? I did a couple hours in the S4 yesterday, and I still can't stand how light the gas pedal is. My Jetta's was definitely heavier to the touch, and it can't compare with my Z4.

The clutch is waaaaaaaaay lighter than my S4 (and less progressive, and the "catch" is much higher...I don't thik I have to even push the pedal halfway down to disengage the clutch). I removed the clutch assist spring  (posted earlier in this I believe, though I am sure the pictures are all gone) and that helped a bit, but its still lighter.

I didn't really notice a difference in the gas pedal TBH.

[12,000 RPM]

It's because they all make big boost at low RPM, which is how they make peak torque down at 2000 RPM or lower and why the power curves sign off at 5K.

That's the thing; in real life they really don't, as evidenced by SJ_GTI's impressions and dynos. Stock Golf R power is the dotted line:



A far cry from the 1800 RPM peak torque supposedly comes on at... compared to a Ricer Roulette turbo kit Civic:



Again on much lower boost:



So there's something else at play. I'd guess the cam specs are basura for fuel economy and emissions tests

[MX793]

That's the thing; in real life they really don't, as evidenced by SJ_GTI's impressions and dynos. Stock Golf R power is the dotted line:



A far cry from the 1800 RPM peak torque supposedly comes on at... compared to a Ricer Roulette turbo kit Civic:



Again on much lower boost:



So there's something else at play. I'd guess the cam specs are basura for fuel economy and emissions tests

Rolling chassis Dyno versus brake Dyno.  On an engine brake Dyno, they make the advertised torque @ RPM.  The piece missing from the VW Dyno plot is the boost curve.  How many psi is the R actually making on a rolling Dyno at any given RPM?

[MrH]

Sporty, you can't be serious in this thread...

There's so much more to a torque curve than just peak boost level and displacement.  You're looking at two variables at an insanely complicated system, and wondering why the outcomes are different.

[SJ_GTI]

It's because they all make big boost at low RPM, which is how they make peak torque down at 2000 RPM or lower and why the power curves sign off at 5K.

I agree with your point down below (way too many variables to make across the board assumptions), so this response to your post is more directly at 12,000 RPM.

There are plenty of turbo engines that make boost just off idle (again, my MKV GTI was very close to this...it was in boost well before 2k RPM) and then run out of air up top. My car is not like this. It can be (and is) irritating sometimes, but the trade off is that while it doesn't get into its real power until its above 3k RPM's, it also doesn't appear to run out of breathe.  I can run it right up to redline (>7k RPM's) and it still feels strong (even if it isn't technically at peak HP).

Because the Golf R is my daily driver I think I would prefer a turbo that comes on quicker and then runs out of breathe (like a GTI but with AWD). This would mean less peak HP but probably a smoother daily driver.

[12,000 RPM]

Sporty, you can't be serious in this thread...

There's so much more to a torque curve than just peak boost level and displacement.  You're looking at two variables at an insanely complicated system, and wondering why the outcomes are different.

OK then, cite some of the factors I'm not considering and how they would come into play. Give me some demonstrable examples.

[MX793]

OK then, cite some of the factors I'm not considering and how they would come into play. Give me some demonstrable examples.

What does the R's boost curve look like?  Additionally, you're comparing chassis Dyno results, which is poor practice.  Different dynos may not return similar results.  Extra parasitic losses in the R due to AWD will result in lower readings at the wheels.  Differences in rotating mass (wheel and tire sizes, as well as driveline components like extra driveshafts) will alter results.

[MrH]

OK then, cite some of the factors I'm not considering and how they would come into play. Give me some demonstrable examples.

Compression ratio.

[MexicoCityM3]

Compression ratio.

And that's how you settle an argument with Sporty. Two words.

[12,000 RPM]

Compression ratio.

Less than 1 point on compression ratio doubles the HP/psi? Come on man

And I mentioned cam specs which play into dynamic compression

And that's how you settle an argument with Sporty. Two words.

Do you even know what we are talking about, and why are you still butthurt?

I see today is going to be one of those days. Good thing I have the time and am with the shits

[MrH]

So now you're saying compression ratio doesn't matter, because it doesn't move the needle as much as you'd like on a meaningless ratio you just pulled out of your ass?  HP/psi?

[MexicoCityM3]

Do you even know what we are talking about, and why are you still butthurt?

I see today is going to be one of those days. Good thing I have the time and am with the shits

We´re talking about how you think the Golf R's engine is bad because it underperforms some personal benchmark compared to a theoretical modded Civic engine with no warranty, yes. Because it makes too little power per psi.

No butthurt man, it's just that you pull arguments out of nowhere sometimes and I just can't resist calling you on them. It's hilarious.

[12,000 RPM]

So now you're saying compression ratio doesn't matter,

No, that's not what I said. Your reading comprehension had taken a recent nosedive, you ok bro?

[MrH]

No, that's not what I said. Your reading comprehension had taken a recent nosedive, you ok bro?

Take the L, go hit the showers, and go try again tomorrow.

[CaminoRacer]

Compression ratio.

That's a possibility. I know a few of the new turbo cars are able to run on regular. Are they ensuring better reliability (/less chance of the consumer breaking the car by being an idiot) by lowering the compression and running higher boost?

Personally I'd prefer a slightly higher C/R and less boost for better response. With modern knock sensors, EFI tuning, and electronic ignition, it isn't hard.

[CaminoRacer]

Also, this seems relevant. I just wish they did it on pump gas so I'd be able to see what a street engine could do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9pykOaMs5I